Facilities Coordinator

[Wobbly Bob]

The SDGA Board selected Jon Verbarg to replace Eric Brown as the SDGA Facilities Coordinator last night during the Board phase of the Open Member Meeting last night at Stadium Pizza.

[jshrack]

I would like to address this decision.
You have very implicitly stated that Eric Brown was replaced... the board does NOT have this right.

The club charter states, "If a Board position is vacated, the remaining Board members will fill vacancies..."
The position was never vacated and the Board does NOT have the right to recuse a Board member.
The assumption that the Board can recuse a member undermines our entire election process.


I would also like to mention that suggestions were asked for online and received online.
Every suggestion included a comment about how the club should be heard on this subject.:seeya:
Having the Board recuse a Board member 5 minutes before an election meeting is UNDENIABLY overstepping it's duties.

While I feel your selection is a great one, your method was perceived by many as deceptive at best.

[Yoduh]

Shrek, While I agree with your statements the truth is that this will fall on deaf ears but voters should note that the people responsible for these problems are running for reelection and could be voted out so that we can clarify our charter so that it would allow the actual club members to be given a voice and not just be a doormat for the board.

[Sean Johnson]

Can I ask what Jon's qualifications are for this position?

[jonverbarg]

Hi.
In response to Sean Johnson's question. I have over 10 years of construction experience. Grew up on a working farm. And generally play well with others. Oh yeah I'm registered, insured, and bonded.
In response to complaints about my appointment to the facilities coordinator position.
This is copy and paste from the charter.
[B]"THE BOARD
The Board is made up of 6 elected officers. The Boards member’s term of office will be 2 years.
If a Board position is vacated the remaining Board members will fill vacancies and the replacement’s
term will expire at the end of the original terms. The election of officers will be staggered. After the initial election the President, Secretary and Facilities Coordinator positions will be elected in even numbered years and the Treasurer, Public Relation and Membership positions will be elected in the odd numbered years. The President’s vote will be the deciding factor in all tied Board decisions. A quorum will consist of 2/3’s of the Board."[/B
The board was unanimous ( minus of course the missing facilities coordinator ) in deciding that the former facilities coordinator had quit. In any job, or position not showing up or calling for over four months is more than considered "quiting".

There is a lot of negative comments, and criticism for how anything gets done. The one thing you can be sure of is no matter what you do, somebody is gonna be pissed that you didn't do something else, or you did it wrong.
That is something any elected governing body will have to contend with. Any electoral base will have opposing view points, differing value systems, etc. I believe that the basic core of any group of people working to consensus, is respect. Respect for their value as a person, their opinions, their culture. The old saying goes "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" has some truth. There are positive ways to say things and negative. conversing/complaining in a negative manner is not conducive to working to a consensus, and is never beneficial in the long run.
In conclusion. Ranting is not helpful, and de-values the opinions, or people its directed at. Secondly you set yourself up to receive the same consideration you give. So I would encourage everyone to keep it positive. If we can do this, I think we will do well in the future. Other wise, all we can hope for is more contention, which hampers our ability's as a club.
Finally. Remember people, this is what we do for fun.

[Gordy #21004]

Can I ask what Jon's qualifications are for this position?
Yes. Club member, Pdga member, tournament helper, sign fixer, bench builder, shovel pusher, team player, has a truck.:chug:

[LJ Jubner]

Yes. Club member, Pdga member, tournament helper, sign fixer, bench builder, shovel pusher, team player, has a truck.:chug:

Chef you forgot the most important one CAN TELL TIME
JShrack Were you this active when you lived in Spokane?

[Wobbly Bob]

Can I ask what Jon's qualifications are for this position?

He knows how to use a key and can unlock the gate.

[LJ Jubner]

He can remember the key to open the gate

[Yoduh]

I was told that The president voted against you and the Secretary wasn't there. Was also told something else that means this appointment doesn't hold water. I for one am not against Jon I am just for things being done the RIGHT way Gordy and Bob.

[Sean Johnson]

It's good to hear that you have solid construction chops, that's definitely a useful background to have for this position. Also, I personally think that there is no question that the position was vacated and needed to be filled long ago. We needed a facilities coordinator months ago, and if the board had appointed someone then I would have been much more supportive. However, elections are right around the corner so the need for the board to appoint someone wasn't really there any more. I feel that the board acted within their power, and I also believe that they made a choice that they felt was in the best interest of the club. Like I said before though, just because they can do something doesn't mean they should. If an election had been held, the position could have been filled by someone who had the mandate and support of the club. You said: "I believe that the basic core of any group of people working to consensus, is respect." I completely agree with you; I just don't feel like the board showed any respect to the club by ignoring our request to have the position filled by election.
One thing that you're going to have to get used to is people voicing their opinions about how you were appointed and eventually your performance in the position. These are valid concerns and club members have every right make these points. Getting defensive and saying people are "ranting" is the wrong way to start things off. Same goes for saying "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." Seriously man, that's something that you say to a child.
I want you to know that I hope nothing for the best for you, and I definitely think that you bring a solid skill set to the table. You are in the unfortunate position of being the center of a controversy that really isn't your fault. Remember that I'm not saying that you're not a good choice for the position, I just don't like how the choice was made.

[Parks]

The board was unanimous ( minus of course the missing facilities coordinator ) in deciding that the former facilities coordinator had quit. In any job, or position not showing up or calling for over four months is more than considered "quiting".

I just wanted to point out that this is incorrect.

When I couldn't make the meeting, I sent out an e-mail saying "The only thing that I would bring up at the meeting would be to suggest that if Eric's position is vacated that we put it up for election (for a 1 year term) due to the timing of it."

I never made the determination that it was in fact vacated, although it probably wouldn't have to taken much to convince me on that.

I also wanted to point out that Sean's two cents above is on the money.

[jonverbarg]

Sorry Lyle i forgot that you where not able to make the meeting. So the vacancy was unanimous except fac coor, and sec not present. It was ruled vacant by all present.
And yes thorton, Crum did not vote for me as coordinator, but i didn’t say he did. He voted to vacate/recuse the existing fac coor.

I get that a few folks didn't like how the position was filled. I don’t have a problem with people voicing concerns about that. That is how a democratic system works, and its good.
It was not my intention to come across as "defensive". I was merely attempting to point out that there are constructive methods to voicing ones concerns, and then there is just personal attacks.
both methods are used by members on this forum, and else where. I didn’t intend for my statement to be directed at anyone. Just as a reminder to keep it friendly.

[Wobbly Bob]

After the board voted to vacate the FC position we voted to fill the same position. There were two people to choose from to fill this position, Tony Costanzo and Jon Verbarg. After Jon was selected I recommended that Jon get together with Tony and that they work together as a team.

[Yoduh]

How did the board decide to vacate the position when there was no scheduled meeting Bob?

[Wobbly Bob]

The Board voted to convene prior to the club meeting.

[jshrack]

While I agree that Jon is a good choice, his selection was mired by the Board.

If you want to get into technicalities... the vote to institute Jon as F.C. was not done according to the charter.
The charter specifically says that a quorum is needed for a board vote, I only count 3 votes that were cast, this is not a quorum.
The Board never let Jeff Crum vote, they took 3 votes for Jon and called it good.
Jeff tried to give his input and was told that the subject was settled.
The Board didn't have 4 members to vote on the subject, as a result they did not have a quorum and had no right to vote.

This point alone invalidates the whole process.
The board undercut the charter to get things done it's way.
Not making time to allow club input doesn't help the perspective.
I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but the situation still hasn't been addressed to the club, therefore this was the ONLY means of starting a discussion.

If we are not able to voice our input as club members the association seems kinda pointless...

As for JUB's remark.
Try to get valid information before making passive aggressive remarks.
I still live in Spokane and I am very active. Your assumptions are foolish.

[psychodwarf]

you know this post has gotten WAY OUT OF HAND .

has ANYONE and i mean anyone heard from eric brown ? we have had 3 meetings and 4 work parties at downriver YET NO F.C has been there and i have not yet seen his input on the forum yet everyone seems to think things were done wrong .
In the work force if YOU DONT show up for a job you were given then it is taken that you have quit .. THIS is excatly what the last F.C. has done NOT SHOWED UP AND NOT VOICING HIS THOUGHTS. I am not saying it was done fairly or badly but in the real world NOTHING IS EVER FAIR!!
right now as a club we have an active F.C. and we are getting things done at downriver .

[jshrack]

Joe, you are right.

All technicalities aside.
We had no F.C. for 4-6 prime work months, now it's snowing.
There was no need to rush this decision.
It should have been discussed by the club before the Board voted.

[jonverbarg]

[QUOTE=jshrack;82414]While I agree that Jon is a good choice, his selection was mired by the Board.

If you want to get into technicalities... the vote to institute Jon as F.C. was not done according to the charter.
The charter specifically says that a quorum is needed for a board vote, I only count 3 votes that were cast, this is not a quorum.
The Board never let Jeff Crum vote, they took 3 votes for Jon and called it good.
Jeff tried to give his input and was told that the subject was settled.
The Board didn't have 4 members to vote on the subject, as a result they did not have a quorum and had no right to vote.

This point alone invalidates the whole process.
The board undercut the charter to get things done it's way.
Not making time to allow club input doesn't help the perspective.
I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but the situation still hasn't been addressed to the club, therefore this was the ONLY means of starting a discussion.

If we are not able to voice our input as club members the association seems kinda pointless...



Justin,
I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but you are mistaken.

Board members that where present: Jeff Crum, Gordy Crafts, Bob Perrewe, Kevin Sakus.
2/3 of 6 is 4. A vote no, or simply withholding your vote does not remove you from the quorum. As far as our charter goes, it was done as the member approved charter states. It could possibly have been done differently. I understand wanting to have more member input. But at the same time, no one has objected to me as f.c. just how it was done. The majority of the board felt (as i said in my statement to the board) that getting someone into the position before a hard freeze was in the best interest of the club. Getting rolling before a hard freeze enables us to get the last few major projects dealt with a.s.a.p. Our courses will be in better shape next spring. Our attention can than be directed toward people's park, and possibly sekani that much quicker.

Jeff was defiantly given the opportunity to vote, and he did. He gave his opinion, and was heard. As will happen from time to time not everyone will agree as to the best course of action. Thats why we have the system of a vote.

Trust me, the concern from some of our members over how the appointment was made was heard after the last member meeting. Justin you where siting there talking with gordy, bob, and myself after the meeting had adjourned. Face to face with us you said that (paraphrase) even though you would like to have seen it done differently, you understood why it was done, and approved of my appointment. We chatted about a few topics and I thought that we had a good and productive chat. I am quite frankly disappointed in the way that this is playing out.

I am not the first board member to be replaced on the sdga board, due to vacancy. Precedent, and the charter where followed as far as the board appointing the new member to the board.

In the future if there is a vacancy on the board, I'm sure that we will again consider how to handle the replacement in the best interest of the club a.k.a. our existing courses, endeavors, and upcoming projects.

If anyone has further questions regarding this subject, or others feel free to contact me through p.m. or my email.

jonverbarg@gmail.com
Thanks, Jon.

[tomw]

"' I am quite frankly disappointed in the way that this is playing out. '"



WOW, glad im from podunk Idaho! You all can keep JUB JUB too:headbang:

[LJ Jubner]

"'WOW, glad im from podunk Idaho! You all can keep JUB JUB too:headbang:

Man Tom I can't get a break anywhere.


What this topic does accomplish is shows a need to (from time to time is) look at the clubs bylaws and procedures just to make sure nothing is left to chance. I agree there needs to be a protocol for all contingencies sometimes they just work out after the problem is identified.

Remember this club is and has always been a labor of love and a work in progress. The good news is the more participants there are the better it will be for all of us.

[jonverbarg]

amen, jub

[TYVEK]

just from reading this thread doesnt make your organzation look all to appealing to me. to me it seems like the board isnt really adressing the complaints, but are just trying to brush it under the carpet until it goes away. not impressed here.

[LJ Jubner]

just from reading this thread doesn't make your organization look all to appealing to me. to me it seems like the board isn't really addressing the complaints, but are just trying to brush it under the carpet until it goes away. not impressed here.

Really!

In the old days clubs did work as you speculated (there are some that still do). I consider this type of healthy PUBLIC discussion refreshing. Clubs that actively use this or other forums should be applauded for "keeping it real"

[Yoduh]

just from reading this thread doesnt make your organzation look all to appealing to me. to me it seems like the board isnt really adressing the complaints, but are just trying to brush it under the carpet until it goes away. not impressed here.

I am happy to hear that. It's good to know that from sitting back you can easily see who is trying to pull something.

[Yoduh]

If you want to see how these meetings are playing out there is a Board meeting on Thursday, Today at 3:30 at the season ticket. The Board is meeting, Gordy, Bob, Kevin, and Jon. They have successfully picked a time that Lyle and Jeff can't make to supposedly approve election materials that Bob needs to have paid for. I wish I can go but I have to work like most people at 330. There was a movement to have the meeting in the afternoon on Sunday but I think that would have been to convenient for to many people to show up. More on this to come.

[Burge]

just from reading this thread doesnt make your organzation look all to appealing to me. to me it seems like the board isnt really adressing the complaints, but are just trying to brush it under the carpet until it goes away. not impressed here.

Yeah....well, in comparison, from playing the one and only course your organization maintains, I'm not impressed. So far, the best course in Oly is the worst course in the state. How about you wait 'till after your organization gets a better course than Yauger Swamp in the ground before you throw your two cents over the mountains. K?

[LJ Jubner]

If you want to see how these meetings are playing out there is a Board meeting on Thursday, Today at 3:30 at the season ticket. The Board is meeting, Gordy, Bob, Kevin, and Jon. They have successfully picked a time that Lyle and Jeff can't make to supposedly approve election materials that Bob needs to have paid for. I wish I can go but I have to work like most people at 330. There was a movement to have the meeting in the afternoon on Sunday but I think that would have been to convenient for to many people to show up. More on this to come.

Well Gee Yoduh maybe it's time to start your own club? Maybe out in the valley? Maybe Maka can help then you would have TWO idea guys.

but seriously folk's the Board meeting today is for the board members to have a plan ready for the upcoming general club meeting. Personally I think it's a good idea for the board to meet ahead of time, get there ducks in a row and actually look organized for the club. It is unfortunate that not all concerned can attend but lets face it life gets in the way of DG (well at least to the ones who have one). The fact that the meeting was posted online makes the secret meeting comment a moot point
So Yoduh Live your signature and Relax and enjoy your hair

Burge, The Oly group does a lot of work at a couple of temp (hopefully someday permanent) courses. I have it on good authority that the Shelton course is outstanding!

[Timber]

<moderator hat on>

Folks, I realize there is a lot of controversy over the way things are being done but let's keep it civil or I'm shutting this thread down.

<moderator hat off>

[Yoduh]

I have no idea how Jub has a word to say on this forum. If you only had 2 cents :pullhair:
Burge I don't feel like Tyvek's point has any reflection on his or our courses. He is simply commenting on how things look on the forum. Your comment doesn't really help that.

[Parks]

If you want to see how these meetings are playing out there is a Board meeting on Thursday, Today at 3:30 at the season ticket. The Board is meeting, Gordy, Bob, Kevin, and Jon. They have successfully picked a time that Lyle and Jeff can't make to supposedly approve election materials that Bob needs to have paid for. I wish I can go but I have to work like most people at 330. There was a movement to have the meeting in the afternoon on Sunday but I think that would have been to convenient for to many people to show up. More on this to come.

Thursday was suggested via e-mail to the board members. Thursday is bad for me due to class + hockey, and I guess today at 3:30 was bad for Jeff too.

Jeff suggested Sunday via e-mail to the board, which seems to work for everyone as long as its late enough.

We will most likely be meeting Sunday at 5:30pm at Season Ticket.

[prospect]

[QUOTE=Yoduh;82873]I have no idea how Jub has a word to say on this forum. If you only had 2 cents :pullhair:

I concur...

[LJ Jubner]

[QUOTE=Yoduh;82873]I have no idea how Jub has a word to say on this forum. If you only had 2 cents :pullhair:

I concur...

On this particular subject my current club membership gives me the right

[TYVEK]

Yeah....well, in comparison, from playing the one and only course your organization maintains, I'm not impressed. So far, the best course in Oly is the worst course in the state. How about you wait 'till after your organization gets a better course than Yauger Swamp in the ground before you throw your two cents over the mountains. K?

what are you talking about?????? whos talking about courses here?? well i guess you are, but your the only one. i was commenting on the way that it seems to me your board of directors are working/not working with the rest of the club on some things.

AND SERIOUSLY WHO HAS A CLUB MEETING OR BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING AT 3:30 IN THE AFTERNOON????!! why not have it at a time where people are not at work?

[LJ Jubner]

AND SERIOUSLY WHO HAS A CLUB MEETING OR BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING AT 3:30 IN THE AFTERNOON????!!

like I said this is an organizational meeting.

to answer your question someone who has to be back to work at 5 PM is who would propose such a time

[jshrack]

Jeff was defiantly given the opportunity to vote, and he did. He gave his opinion, and was heard. As will happen from time to time not everyone will agree as to the best course of action. Thats why we have the system of a vote.

Jon,
I guess we perceived the interaction differently.
I saw no votes for the first person nominated.
I saw 3 votes for you.
I saw Jeff try to continue the discussion without a voting opportunity and he got shut down.

Is this process legitimate... our charter is so ambiguous it doesn't matter.

I do appreciate that you addressed the issue in a positive way, though.
I really hoped this would start some conversation about updating the charter... maybe my methods were too passive agressive. :biggrin2:
If I offended you, apologies.
I really just think we need some hindsight to see how we can improve as a club.

[Yoduh]

The one thing this ugly mess has illustrated is how un-detailed our charter is in it's current language. There are issues that need addressed. Hopefully they will come to light at our next meeting.

Jon,
I guess we perceived the interaction differently.
I saw no votes for the first person nominated.
I saw 3 votes for you.
I saw Jeff try to continue the discussion without a voting opportunity and he got shut down.

Is this process legitimate... our charter is so ambiguous it doesn't matter.

I do appreciate that you addressed the issue in a positive way, though.
I really hoped this would start some conversation about updating the charter... maybe my methods were too passive agressive. :biggrin2:
If I offended you, apologies. If I could only get Bob to quit hitting on my..
I really just think we need some hindsight to see how we can improve as a club.

I am happy to hear the meeting time has been altered. :chug:

[Parks]

The one thing this ugly mess has illustrated is how un-detailed our charter is in it's current language. There are issues that need addressed. Hopefully they will come to light at our next meeting.

Everyone seems to agree on that.

It has been brought up multiple times by Tim N, but I don't think anyone in the club has the knowledge or the will to create a serious charter.