Pro only / am only ??

[Flatroc]

As big as this series is getting does anybody think it'll ever go to separate weekend pro/am events?
I half way expected to see it this year.
Imagine how big your divisions could get if this happened. :yay:
:biggrin2:

[Scott]

As big as this series is getting does anybody think it'll ever go to separate weekend pro/am events?
I half way expected to see it this year.
Imagine how big your divisions could get if this happened. :yay:
:biggrin2:

It's nice having everyone in one place - I dislike the "flights" system on multiple courses for that reason. It does seem to be the future, though. I don't think we're there yet, but I suppose it could work for the biggest of the events - the BSF.

[all2common]

I think separate events would be wonderful. Not only would the fields be larger, but it would afford more tournament opportunities for some.

[SMOKIN JOE]

untill the pro fields get larger they won't do it because then the pro event would not be very large look at the entries beside the fling ams dominate registration

[proto something or other]

This would take 2x the volunteers or 2x the commitment from the current volunteers.

[Pizzel]

This would take 2x the volunteers or 2x the commitment from the current volunteers.I think this is the biggest obstacle.

[TreeLove]

I doubt ORS will go separate Pro / Am. Separate Pro Am events are not good for groups and families of mixed divisions. The Oregon Series has already done a lot to increase it s capacity with flights, bigger courses, course expansions, multiple course, multiple flights, etc. WA Series could learn a lot from OR Series about accommodating players.

[Magilla]

I doubt ORS will go separate Pro / Am. Separate Pro Am events are not good for groups and families of mixed divisions. The Oregon Series has already done a lot to increase it s capacity with flights, bigger courses, course expansions, multiple course, multiple flights, etc.

WA Series could learn a lot from OR Series about accommodating players.

IMO these two statments contradict each other....

How is limiting the number of players that can play in any way "accommodating"..? :headbang:

Our state has reached a point where seperation is needed.........BUT there are certain sacrifices that would need to take place for this too happen.
1st and foremost is that the TD's..NOT the Oregon Series...have to be willing to throw 2 events instead of one.
I "kicked" a similar proposal around and was asked to "submit" a proposal to the "Series" that outlined my "thoughts"...:rolleyes2:

After MUCH thought, I have decided NOT to pursue ANY changes to the "Series" system..BUT too go another route. And that will be to support TD's that wish to run OTHER events (NOT conflicting) of various formats to fill the need that is obviously HERE....
The Rebels ALONE this year will have 5 PDGA sactioned events minimum.
3 Mountain events (Willamette, HooDoo and Bachelor) an Oregon Series event AND at least 1 (Pro Only) Match Play event, possibly an AM as well.

There is also a search on state wide for a venue that can handle a State Flying Disc Championships (Overall event with Distance, MTA, Accuracy, etc)

:cheers:

NOW is the time for change...We just kicked the Republicans out of office.

Fill the VOID!...
:rockon:

[Magilla]

untill the pro fields get larger they won't do it because then the pro event would not be very large look at the entries beside the fling ams dominate registration

The PROS are out there....How many over 40 PRO players showed up at Timber for the "Masters"??
:headbang:
They are out there...BUT for some reason do not play more...???

Some tell me that by the time they are able to sign up a field of 135 AMs and 25 Pros have the Tourney FULL, with MULTIPLE people on the "wait list".
:slapface:

So if a tourney was to split...Now there is room for 25 more AMs and the possiblity for MORE pros to come back and play more.
Sure the Pro events will not fill...BUT more top level AMS would play up to "test the waters".
The "Oregon Series" with "Merch" doesnt need to even be there since NO Merch is going out to the players(NO Ams). If an AM denies cash then scrip can be easily paid out for redemption at a later date.

Growth is a Good thing...AND takes a little work.
The Oregon Series has now reached a player base similar to what NorCal had 10yrs ago when thay had to go thru the same changes.
Its a bit different with the "Oregon Series" because they are MUCH more "Hands on" than the NorCal Series is.

:cheers:

[Scott]

IMO these two statments contradict each other....

How is limiting the number of players that can play in any way "accommodating"..? :headbang:

Did you read the entire sentence?
"flights, bigger courses, course expansions, multiple course, multiple flights, etc. "

[Magilla]

Did you read the entire sentence?
"flights, bigger courses, course expansions, multiple course, multiple flights, etc. "


So I show up with my Wife & Kid at the WOX....

All 3 of us would be in a different pool with much travel between.....
How does this "accommodate" my family??


Disclaimer

In NO way am I trying to BASH the Oregon Series....Far too many people take offense to ANYTHING that "suggests" that things COULD be better.

The Oregon Series is GREAT for Oregon Disc Golf AND has the right to run its series ANY way they wish. The bottom line is that they have reached CAPACITY. If you are happy with that then :yay: for you.

I, as a PDGA elected offical, have a duty to support and promote the GROWTH of Disc Golf, the PDGA and its players.
:cheers:

[Scott]

So I show up with my Wife & Kid at the WOX....

All 3 of us would be in a different pool with much travel between.....
How does this "accommodate" my family??


Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. But explain how it would work better if pros and ams played on seperate weekends (unless of course you all play Pro, or all play am).

[Magilla]

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. But explain how it would work better if pros and ams played on seperate weekends (unless of course you all play Pro, or all play am).

With GROWTH there will always be some sort of change....
BUT there also has to be a desire to grow......
;)

The family aspect is just an example..... Im just stating the obvious.

The facts are everywhere. Look back at all the threads about past events and the number of people who didnt get in......
Sure they could have entered earlier, BUT then someone else isnt playing either.
The demand is there. Who chooses to fill it, is the question.

:cheers:

[SMOKIN JOE]

no disrespect to anyone out there but isn't the whole point to share and grow the sport with people you have to field as many people as possible anybody wishing to play that is a pdga member and does not get into a pdga event doesn't seem fair especially when non pdga members are allowed to pay to play non pdga members should be the last ones able to enter a tournament and the whole point about family and no one knows more than me my family comes to every tournament i would be more than willing to sacrifice the whole point to me should be about pdga members should be able to play in a pdga tournaments and to grow the sport to the point that this doesn't matter am only tournaments would still fill up at current level that we are at we need to thank everyone that has got us to this point it's great just having this discussion it would be great to see everyone play thats wants to play qualifing tournaments first day cuts three day tournaments more vollunteers what does the worlds do lots of courses all in i just like to see no one get turned away impossible maybe again thanks to all that have helped grow the sport and to all helping to grow the sport

[Tim]

WA Series could learn a lot from OR Series about accommodating players.

ooooo, BURN! Being a Washingtoner and former series TD, even though your statement stings a bit, it does carry some truth with it. I proposed some making some changes to the series to accommodate more players and allow for more non-series events throughout the season to the powers that be, but, only a couple people responded, and none supported it. Even though WA was heavily in support of Obama, apparently not every one here is a fan of change. :rolleyes2:

I like the idea of pro/am tourneys myself. Though I think it'd be cool to have them on separate weekends, one idea is to have two 1 day tourneys on the same weekend. That'd make road tripping a lot easier for those that carpool and play in different divisions. I for one would really like the spectator aspect of it...watching the final 9 is cool and all, but I'd like to be able to see more if I could.

[Tim]

no disrespect to anyone out there but isn't the whole point to share and grow the sport with people you have to field as many people as possible anybody wishing to play that is a pdga member and does not get into a pdga event doesn't seem fair especially when non pdga members are allowed to pay to play non pdga members should be the last ones able to enter a tournament and the whole point about family and no one knows more than me my family comes to every tournament i would be more than willing to sacrifice the whole point to me should be about pdga members should be able to play in a pdga tournaments and to grow the sport to the point that this doesn't matter am only tournaments would still fill up at current level that we are at we need to thank everyone that has got us to this point it's great just having this discussion it would be great to see everyone play thats wants to play qualifing tournaments first day cuts three day tournaments more vollunteers what does the worlds do lots of courses all in i just like to see no one get turned away impossible maybe again thanks to all that have helped grow the sport and to all helping to grow the sport

dude, not to be all punctuation police, but come on, in that whole block of text, the only punctuation is 2 apostrophes! even Jub's posts are easier to read than that! :laughing:

[jevon]

dude, not to be all punctuation police, but come on, in that whole block of text, the only punctuation is 2 apostrophes! even Jub's posts are easier to read than that! :laughing:
Dude, not to be all counting police, but come on, there are FOUR apostrophes! :cop: :laughing:

[Tim]

Haha, you mind checking my scorecard too? :slapface:

[Flatroc]

anybody wishing to play that is a pdga member and does not get into a pdga event doesn't seem fair especially when non pdga members are allowed to pay to play non pdga members should be the last ones able to enter a tournament

Terry,
I agree with your point here.:wink2:
BUT............. What IF ...
there were gigs where the "Nons" had first crack at entering a non pdga gig and pdga members had to wait?
:shocked:
May I suggest that the moderators move this particular post to the pdga forum.
:biggrin2:

[Magilla]

Terry,
I agree with your point here.:wink2:
BUT............. What IF ...
there were gigs where the "Nons" had first crack at entering a non pdga gig and pdga members had to wait?
:shocked:
May I suggest that the moderators move this particular post to the pdga forum.
:biggrin2:

Not a valid point........
The arguement has gone on forever on this subject........
There are MANY non-sanctioned events where "entries" is by "Invitation Only" :wink2:

MOST organizations WILL NOT allow "non-members" to even participate, let alone take the spot of a "dues paying" member.

I am NOT necessarily for a "blanket" members only policy.
BUT if DiscGolfers want to play in a competitive eviron, such as PDGA events, shouldnt they be members? Is that so wrong?
For the price of a carton of sigs and a case of beer you are in for the year.......:laughing:

:cheers:

[essjay]

Every time I read a post from Terry it takes me awhile to catch my breath at the end! heehee just ribbin' ya, man :)

[Leftybagger]

For the price of a carton of sigs and a case of beer you are in for the year.......:laughing:

:cheers:

Ah I miss those days when I could get both of those for 50-60!!! Carton of Camels here is $58. 12 pack of decent microbrew is about $20... :shocked:

[Magilla]

Ah I miss those days when I could get both of those for 50-60!!! Carton of Camels here is $58. 12 pack of decent microbrew is about $20... :shocked:

:D:laughing: You got me there...BUT that further proves my theory...

You can sign up as a PRO for the price of a Carton of Cigs and a Case of Beer...:whistler:

Signing up as a AM is BY FAR cheaper...than Beer & Sigs :laughing:

:cheers:

[Leftybagger]

:D:laughing: You got me there...BUT that further proves my theory...

You can sign up as a PRO for the price of a Carton of Cigs and a Case of Beer...:whistler:

Signing up as a AM is BY FAR cheaper...than Beer & Sigs :laughing:

:cheers:

Well... Only if you live in Juneau and only for a carton and a half rack!!! :laughing: I hate to think of how many years of membership I could have when paying $6.50 per pack per day!! Ok, I will quit thread jacking now!

[essjay]

Jeez Luke why don't ya move back already! Sounds spendy ;)

[Matt B.]

IMO these two statments contradict each other....

How is limiting the number of players that can play in any way "accommodating"..? :headbang:

Our state has reached a point where seperation is needed.........BUT there are certain sacrifices that would need to take place for this too happen.
1st and foremost is that the TD's..NOT the Oregon Series...have to be willing to throw 2 events instead of one.
I "kicked" a similar proposal around and was asked to "submit" a proposal to the "Series" that outlined my "thoughts"...:rolleyes2:

What exactly makes you roll your eyes at the idea of putting your idea in some written form for others to consider? Seems pretty reasonable and standard practice to me when you are pitching an idea. Or is the brilliance of the idea just supposed to cause the envisioned reality to take flight as a golden bird of glory as it leaves your mouth? :rolleyes2:
:shooting:

[proto something or other]

Or is the brilliance of the idea just supposed to cause the envisioned reality to take flight as a golden bird of glory as it leaves your mouth? :rolleyes2:
:shooting:


That... ...that was beautiful.

[Flatroc]

What exactly makes you roll your eyes at the idea of putting your idea in some written form for others to consider?

IMO the ORS staff is/was not quite ready to take this huge transitional step.
I really don't blame them as a change this big could be scary.
So, still IMO I don't think it would've done any good for Mike to write up a proposal, as I feel they weren't ready.
Actually, IMO I don't see where a proposal would be necessary.
I think that most of the ORS staff folks if not all, know what's going on with DG growth and splitting weekends with pros and ams.
I'll say it again Caloch, I'm not bashing your beloved ORS. :biggrin2:
Just trying to deal with the fast growth of this sport as some others are. :cheers:

[Todd Andrews]

From the 2009 PDGA Tour Standards

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09TourStandardsV1-1.pdf

Anyone that plays in a PDGA event will become a PDGA member.


Addition of PDGA Supporting Level Membership. Non-members who pay the $10 fee at a PDGA
event will receive a PDGA number, PDGA mini and a rulebook. This level of membership does
not include the calculation of points or assignment of a player rating.

Also, as stated by Magilla, we have been considering splitting up the series into pro and am weekends. The problem is finding the TD's and volunteers to run the events and keeping the events up to the standards of the Oregon Series. The current core group of Oregon Series volunteers have neither the time nor the inclination to run another 6 or 7 events each year. There is also the problem of raising more sponsorship from the local communities. Hitting up the same businesses for additional cash for additional events may be problematic, especially in this economic environment.

The time will come and change will happen, but until a lot more people are willing to step up and volunteer on a regular basis it will not change soon. If you would like to help Oregon disc golf grow, please contact any of the dedicated volunteers below to see what you can do to help out.

Regards,

Todd Andrews
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cris Bellinger
Teresa Bellinger
Greg Ruhl
Mike Phillips
Tom Embree

Mike "Magilla" Ruzicka
Ryan Lane
Brandon Hill
Scott Duvaul
Mike Storrs
Greg Johnson

Jeff Mittl
Jay Townsend

[discgolforegon]

From the 2009 PDGA Tour Standards

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09TourStandardsV1-1.pdf

Anyone that plays in a PDGA event will become a PDGA member.


Addition of PDGA Supporting Level Membership. Non-members who pay the $10 fee at a PDGA
event will receive a PDGA number, PDGA mini and a rulebook. This level of membership does
not include the calculation of points or assignment of a player rating.

Also, as stated by Magilla, we have been considering splitting up the series into pro and am weekends. The problem is finding the TD's and volunteers to run the events and keeping the events up to the standards of the Oregon Series. The current core group of Oregon Series volunteers have neither the time nor the inclination to run another 6 or 7 events each year. There is also the problem of raising more sponsorship from the local communities. Hitting up the same businesses for additional cash for additional events may be problematic, especially in this economic environment.

The time will come and change will happen, but until a lot more people are willing to step up and volunteer on a regular basis it will not change soon. If you would like to help Oregon disc golf grow, please contact any of the dedicated volunteers below to see what you can do to help out.

Regards,

Todd Andrews
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cris Bellinger
Teresa Bellinger
Greg Ruhl
Mike Phillips
Tom Embree

Mike "Magilla" Ruzicka
Ryan Lane
Brandon Hill
Scott Duvaul
Mike Storrs
Greg Johnson

Jeff Mittl
Jay Townsend


Todd,

I have made several attempts to contact parties involved about the Oregon series. DiscGolfOregon.com is willing to help with anything that you need. I have told you this in person as well.

All of my email attempts have hit dead ends, and all i can do is keep offering.

[Magilla]

What exactly makes you roll your eyes at the idea of putting your idea in some written form for others to consider? Seems pretty reasonable and standard practice to me when you are pitching an idea. Or is the brilliance of the idea just supposed to cause the envisioned reality to take flight as a golden bird of glory as it leaves your mouth? :rolleyes2:
:shooting:

:shocked: My "envisioned reality" was discussed with the individuals that mattered. There never was ANY reason for me to "document" my ideas as a proposal. All it would do is outline how I felt it could happen with minimal impact on the "Series" personel, ie having to travel to both events, gathering of sponsor money, etc.

As Todd states above there would have to be a DOUBLE commitment by the TD's, for it to work. In my "theory", splitting events would in NO WAY be forced upon a TD. BUT be an OPTION for those who wished do do so.

:cheers:

[Magilla]

From the 2009 PDGA Tour Standards

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09TourStandardsV1-1.pdf

Anyone that plays in a PDGA event will become a PDGA member.


Addition of PDGA Supporting Level Membership. Non-members who pay the $10 fee at a PDGA
event will receive a PDGA number, PDGA mini and a rulebook. This level of membership does
not include the calculation of points or assignment of a player rating.



Nice....The only thing Id wish for was that the PDGA track the player ratings, if only for TD's to use for divisional placement.
Dont track points OR make rating avail to the public.

:biggrin2:

[Matt B.]

IMO the ORS staff is/was not quite ready to take this huge transitional step.
I really don't blame them as a change this big could be scary.
So, still IMO I don't think it would've done any good for Mike to write up a proposal, as I feel they weren't ready.
Actually, IMO I don't see where a proposal would be necessary.
I think that most of the ORS staff folks if not all, know what's going on with DG growth and splitting weekends with pros and ams.
I'll say it again Caloch, I'm not bashing your beloved ORS. :biggrin2:
Just trying to deal with the fast growth of this sport as some others are. :cheers:

Say it as many times as you want :cheerleader:
I still don't see what the problem is with the idea that you are asked to make a proposal, submit an idea, etc. when you want to propose or suggest something. It's standard practice in many realms of society: school, business, fundraising...virtually any arena in life when you are proposing changes or ideas to an institution or group and you're asked to submit a proposal ie; "put something in writing for us to read"...then that's what you do. It's not crazy or unfair or something that most people would roll their eyes at. Call me nuts, that's just the way I see it. Doesn't matter what you think the outcome will be, if you aren't even willing to write a three paragraph proposal you will not be taken seriously.

I'm not trying to bash Magilla here, I get what he's saying. i just get annoyed sometimes at how quick we are to complain, suspect shenanigans and bash the people who do the work we enjoy. And rolling eyes at being asked to simply write a proposal for the change you'd like to see strikes me as an example. no big deal.

[Magilla]

Say it as many times as you want :cheerleader:
I still don't see what the problem is with the idea that you are asked to make a proposal, submit an idea, etc. when you want to propose or suggest something. It's standard practice in many realms of society: school, business, fundraising...virtually any arena in life when you are proposing changes or ideas to an institution or group and you're asked to submit a proposal ie; "put something in writing for us to read"...then that's what you do. It's not crazy or unfair or something that most people would roll their eyes at. Call me nuts, that's just the way I see it. Doesn't matter what you think the outcome will be, if you aren't even willing to write a three paragraph proposal you will not be taken seriously.

I'm not trying to bash Magilla here, I get what he's saying. i just get annoyed sometimes at how quick we are to complain, suspect shenanigans and bash the people who do the work we enjoy. And rolling eyes at being asked to simply write a proposal for the change you'd like to see strikes me as an example. no big deal.

The idea was simple enough that it was not necessary to have it in writing.
Regardless, from my "discussions", I realized that it would not happen this year anyway so there was really no reason to put forth anything in writing.

My whole purpose of the "discussions" is that Growth IS needed AND will happen regardless. It was my hope that this growth would be within the "Series". It seems THAT growth will have to wait.

The Rebels will be holding PDGA events at HooDoo, Willamette Pass, Mt Bachelor, Sisters AND possibly MORE. There will be a Match Play event in Sisters as well probably 2 weekends Pro & Am. As well as the PDGA Match Play Championships which I am currently investigasting my venue of choice.

:cheers:

[proto something or other]

The Rebels will be holding PDGA events at HooDoo, Willamette Pass, Mt Bachelor, Sisters AND possibly MORE. There will be a Match Play event in Sisters as well probably 2 weekends Pro & Am. As well as the PDGA Match Play Championships which I am currently investigasting my venue of choice.

:cheers:

Sounds like fun. I live too far away to support those events. Good luck with the mountain golf!

[Matt B.]

The idea was simple enough that it was not necessary to have it in writing.
Regardless, from my "discussions", I realized that it would not happen this year anyway so there was really no reason to put forth anything in writing.

My whole purpose of the "discussions" is that Growth IS needed AND will happen regardless. It was my hope that this growth would be within the "Series". It seems THAT growth will have to wait.

The Rebels will be holding PDGA events at HooDoo, Willamette Pass, Mt Bachelor, Sisters AND possibly MORE. There will be a Match Play event in Sisters as well probably 2 weekends Pro & Am. As well as the PDGA Match Play Championships which I am currently investigasting my venue of choice.

:cheers:

That is freakin' awesome! Looks like I'll be playing some mountain golf for sure this summer! :yay: