slight grip modifaction=huge success!!

[Mikk]

I had a chance to play with Mike worth at white river on a couple of holes and he suggested a grip change for my drive. Another player said it is the "Feldburg grip?" anyway I took Mikes suggestion and WOW did that help. I took 4 hours of just driving on hole 17 on the blue pad to the short basket at white river. I think its 400 feet. I was able to consistantly land around the basket!! I started with my most flippy disc a 176 Serious Orion LS and worked towards my most over stable disc a 175 star destroyer. Thats 12 discs per practice. I had almost all my plastic landing on or next to each other within a 4 foot radious of the pin!! Man my finger tips are sore but the benifit of that practice was huge! At one point there were several people watching and as I went to pickup my plastic they were asking if those were special discs or something.
I then went to the red pad on the same hole that is about 70 feet closer to the pin and started the practice drives over again. I got sooo much snap that I burried a 175 star orc in the hillside behind the basket!!! almost couldn't see it. I still need to work on my shoulder angle tho. Every now and then I get this nasty hyzer drive but its going major distance. Thanks Mike!!! I owe you a :chug:
With getting my practice in I was able to play my personal best at white river from the blue pads. 4 birdies and 4 bogeys. I have never had a par for 18 holes before from the blue.

[Uhlman]

I had a chance to play with Mike worth at white river on a couple of holes and he suggested a grip change for my drive. Another player said it is the "Feldburg grip?" anyway I took Mikes suggestion and WOW did that help. I took 4 hours of just driving on hole 17 on the blue pad to the short basket at white river. I think its 400 feet. I was able to consistantly land around the basket!! I started with my most flippy disc a 176 Serious Orion LS and worked towards my most over stable disc a 175 star destroyer. Thats 12 discs per practice. I had almost all my plastic landing on or next to each other within a 4 foot radious of the pin!! Man my finger tips are sore but the benifit of that practice was huge! At one point there were several people watching and as I went to pickup my plastic they were asking if those were special discs or something.
I then went to the red pad on the same hole that is about 70 feet closer to the pin and started the practice drives over again. I got sooo much snap that I burried a 175 star orc in the hillside behind the basket!!! almost couldn't see it. I still need to work on my shoulder angle tho. Every now and then I get this nasty hyzer drive but its going major distance. Thanks Mike!!! I owe you a :chug:
With getting my practice in I was able to play my personal best at white river from the blue pads. 4 birdies and 4 bogeys. I have never had a par for 18 holes before from the blue.
Can you post pictures of said grip?

[Mikk]

ya I'll get a pic or 2 later today. Basicly all 4 fingers under and placing the tips inward to the edege. the flight plate crosses above the inner knuckles and the thumb is pinching the index finger through the disc.

[Scott]

Is this what is referred to as the "power grip"?

[sillybizz]

Is this what is referred to as the "power grip"?

Goes with the Power Glove. Wait this isn't the Nintendo Forum, sorry...

[Adam Schneider]

I know I got some extra distance when I started putting all four fingers underneath. It also makes me slightly more prone to griplock.

[Mikk]

Is this what is referred to as the "power grip"?

I was out at lakewood earlier getting practice with Charles and thats what he said too. However my thumb is almost out at the edege of the disc and the flight plate is in a different spot in my hand.I got some pix but its kinda hard to do 1 handed!! I was able to get out to the bottom of the hills past the big trees at lakewood on geezer(hole 11 now). I know I now have the potential to get close enough to birdie geezer. I just need to get more practice. I think its time to start playin steli more!!

[Mikk]

This pic shows my former grip style I had sence I started in playin 1992. You can clearly see my index finger on the edege of the flight plate. However I find my original grip style very acurate just not good for distance.

[sillybizz]

I started getting more distance using the Ken Climo grip.

[Mikk]

Sorry I forgot to add this is for right hand back hand throwing.

[Adam Schneider]

This pic shows my former grip style I had sence I started in playin 1992. You can clearly see my index finger on the edege of the flight plate. However I find my original grip style very acurate just not good for distance.
Huh... my "old" grip, the one with three fingers, had the index finger underneath, but the pinky wasn't used.

[SPIDER-DAN]

huh... My "old" grip, the one with three fingers, had the index finger underneath, but the pinky wasn't used.

thats the grip i just started using at the beginning of this year. A player from oregon (josh i believe) was in a tournament here in wa state and showed me and i liked it.

[sillybizz]

This is a pretty cool list of many different grips and some information about each:

http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml

[Will of Doom]

Huh... my "old" grip, the one with three fingers, had the index finger underneath, but the pinky wasn't used.

That's my normal grip. To me it just feels the most comfortable.

[Mikk]

This is a pretty cool list of many different grips and some information about each:

http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml

Thanks for the web page bizz thats good stuf. Looking at the photos of grip my grip looks like a blended version of pix of power grip version 1 and version 2.
After reading the web link you posted I'll definately be doing moe practice on my grip. I've had rips at steli on nw12 go 462 feet. I can throw further I know it. Practice practice practice, sound good to me!!

[jshrack]

If you get the chance, check out the video 'Disc Golf Fundamentals.'
It is hosted by Climo and Feldberg.

They show the standard grips and then show their own versions.
The grip you show is close to Feldberg's drive grip... thumb looks a bit extended though.
Climo describes his as a FORK GRIP, same hand position as eating with a fork.

Both are a version of the power grip with the pointer finger adapted for accuracy.
Their versions seem to griplock less than the power grip too.
:drool:

[Mikk]

I have had griplock happen while working on my grip style change. Other than having a major klingon drive there was a very audible snap as the disc left my hand. I could feel the power of the snap in my last 3 fingers and outer wrist. It was an ugly drive but boy that disc left my hand with some major force!! I just remember having a hard time letting go so I guess thats why its called "griplock". I'm currently trying to borrow a Nikon d70 camera from a friend so I can get multi-shot pix of what my drive looks like. Hopefuly I can get a good photo spread of what I'm doing to post up.

[Burge]

Ask any hardcore rock-climber or physio-therapist (PT, LMT, OT) and they will all tell you: the pads of the fingers may have more surface area for more grip, but the fingertips have the most strength.

Think of it this way...

The simple physiology of your hand is such that it has evolved to support the most force on the tips of the fingers rather than the pads.

Try this experiment: while sitting, rest the forearm of your throwing arm across your legs with your palm facing up--your arm should naturally feel relaxed. Your fingertips should point towards the ceiling. Now, with the thumb of your other hand, apply pressure to just the pads of your fingers, while trying to keep them pointing up. You should notice right away that most of the strength required to keep your fingers from moving is coming from your hand and that the majority of the force is transferred into the wrist.

Relax your arm again, but this time, curl your fingers over so that your fingernails are facing up and are fairly 'level'. Your hand should still feel relaxed. Now, apply pressure in the same way as before, but this time across the tips of the fingers, trying to keep your fingernails level. You will notice immediately that the hand requires much less strength to maintain this position and that the force is transferred almost immediately all the way through the arm to the shoulder. You can apply more force to the fingers and it is easier to maintain the grip because you are using the muscle groups in your forearm rather than your hand. What makes this grip key is that it is much easier to maintain proper wrist position as the disc goes through the 'snap'. If you have to hold onto your disc with your hand strength through the snap, then this is what can lead to wrist roll-over and griplock. Putting the job on the muscles of the forearm allows the wrist and the hand to stay in a more neutral position throughout the snap, giving you more consistency and control when throwing with a lot of power.

Also -- dropping fingers is dropping power. When gripping with your fingertips, leaving out a finger is leaving out a whole group of muscles in your forearm. This is totally justifiable for more control and less power on upshots or putts, but for big drives, leaving out your pinky is like losing 20% of your power.

I watched that Climo/Feldberg video years ago and got what Climo was talking about when he was showing his 'fork' grip and that he was putting the tips of his fingers against the rim instead of the pads. I went out the next day and changed my grip and it was the first time I broke 400'. The disc literally rockets out of your hand. It is also easier to adjust the attack or the hyzer of the disc through the throw because you have more control in your wrist since it doesn't have to be the anchor point for the disc.

[Uhlman]

Your new grip definitely looks close to what I am doing now I still can’t seem to hit 300' though. I am only averaging about 250’ I will see if changing my thumb and finer pressure points help.

[rockhound]

Thanks for the post Mr little:cheers:

[Mikk]

Thanks Burge that was the thought process I was having about the grip change I made. I believe that when I got the pads of all 4 fingers into the inside edege is when my drive was the best distance. I do know I have a shoulder dip issue that needs some work, also I have a bad habbit of swinging my arm out from my body before starting the cross the chest rip. There is alot to think about when throwing that happens in about 3 seconds or less!!

[Ol' Bob]

Into the whole equation must go the balance between arm speed and grip strength. I lack the former and so, have reduced the later with a three finger grip. If I add the pinkie, I'm sure to grip-lock it. With a <250' drive, I have to have a good idea where it's going.

[Tim]

Your new grip definitely looks close to what I am doing now I still can’t seem to hit 300' though. I am only averaging about 250’ I will see if changing my thumb and finer pressure points help.

Likely that has less to do with your grip and more to do with your timing. That's what I've been told about my own distance issues at least, by some trustworthy sources.

[jshrack]

The other HUGE tip I got from the FUNDAMENTALS video was the idea to keep a slow arm speed until your elbow passes your shoulder.

If you work on timing and consistency while starting your forward motion then put in the power at the VERY END... when your elbow passes your body/shoulder, you should get even more power. Think of the way BETO shows the snap in his videos, it's only the last part of the throw that gives power.
Now that I have switched I have MUCH LESS shoulder strain too.

Try Dave's towel drill... it makes sense. (Loose towel until snap time.) =)

I have only been throwing backhand for about 6 months but am finally starting to consistently hit the 350' range with the occasional 375'+. I am also getting good control with my Teebirds now... and consistently hitting 280-300' in the process. It's amazing how much less effort it takes too.

Seriously though, if you have $20 to spend and you wanna improve your game, get the video instead of your next disc purchase. It'll do wonders.

[Tim]

Yeah, I have the DVD and know the drills and theory, and have dedicated afternoons to trying to "get it," but have yet to have it click.

[Mikk]

Sounds like I need to get my hands on that video. So I have noticed that with my grip change I'm getting more spin on the disc with less overall power in the throw which is giving better accuracy. It feels like I'm getting more of my middle and ring finger into the grip as well and a nice snap too!!
I'd love to find a driving instructor who can help me with any other pointers. Mabe Kyle C. could chime in on this?

[Bruce]

Keep in mind that if you are getting "snap" and it sounds like you are actually snapping your figners that isn't a good thing. It's a lazy finger that isn't coming off the disc at the same point as the others.

[TYVEK]

Keep in mind that if you are getting "snap" and it sounds like you are actually snapping your figners that isn't a good thing. It's a lazy finger that isn't coming off the disc at the same point as the others.

Huh? :confused: how can snap be a bad thing? i have always heard the opposite, even from ken climo. Ken climo also states in one of his videos that the index finger is supposed to be the last finger to release from the disc. so to me that means that all of your fingers are not supposed to come off at the same time.
He says that the order of fingers to release is the pinky and ring finger come off together and then the middle finger, then the index finger comes off last. it is the pinch point between the index finger and thumb that gives the disc alot of its spin when it comes out of your hand.

[Bruce]

I'm just going off of a few conversations with Feldberg and a few things he has recently changed in my throw. A pop when you release is much different than the loud "snap" some people have, and that I used to have. I have noticed major changes in my throw when the "snap" went away and the pop arrived.

[TYVEK]

I'm just going off of a few conversations with Feldberg and a few things he has recently changed in my throw. A pop when you release is much different than the loud "snap" some people have, and that I used to have. I have noticed major changes in my throw when the "snap" went away and the pop arrived.

could you explain the difference in the "pop" and a "snap"? what sort of things have you been changing and what advice did Dave give you that helped your throw.

[Tim]

Bruce is right. "Audible snap" isn't necessarily "good snap." A lot of times my drives have the audible snap (the finger snapping sound), and though it sounds cool, my disc does its normal mediocre flight. The snap you want to have sounds more like a "pfffssshhhh." The closest noise I can think of is the sound of the jet wash at Seatac when it first cuts through the air. Every once in a while I get that on my drives, but not often enough.

[Bruce]

Well I went and hung out with Dave about 6 or 7 weeks ago, pre ankle injury. We decide to go out and throw some plastic. He started with my grip, then arm, body, and finally my run up. I was already throwing 450+ pretty consistently. But with his changes it's become much more accurate and...fluid I suppose you would say. The biggest change was the run up, everything else was just slightly tweaking what I was already doing. The grip change he made after watching me throw has taken getting used to. Most of the pressure in my grip now comes from my pinky and ring finger pushing firmly into the palm of my hand. The index and thumb still keep some pressure on the disc but I would say less than the other fingers mentioned. It's strange to try and explain.

[TYVEK]

Well I went and hung out with Dave about 6 or 7 weeks ago, pre ankle injury. We decide to go out and throw some plastic. He started with my grip, then arm, body, and finally my run up. I was already throwing 450+ pretty consistently. But with his changes it's become much more accurate and...fluid I suppose you would say. The biggest change was the run up, everything else was just slightly tweaking what I was already doing. The grip change he made after watching me throw has taken getting used to. Most of the pressure in my grip now comes from my pinky and ring finger pushing firmly into the palm of my hand. The index and thumb still keep some pressure on the disc but I would say less than the other fingers mentioned. It's strange to try and explain.

does the pressure from your pinky and ring finger really make a big difference? and what sort of difference?

[Bruce]

It's hard to explain really, but as far as the "feel" goes, the disc seems to come out of my hand much cleaner. My throws have become more consistent as well. But keep in mind grip is one of those funny things, you have to find what works for you, and with my stubby fingers this grip seems to work great for me.

[TYVEK]

It's hard to explain really, but as far as the "feel" goes, the disc seems to come out of my hand much cleaner. My throws have become more consistent as well. But keep in mind grip is one of those funny things, you have to find what works for you, and with my stubby fingers this grip seems to work great for me.

ok, thanks for the info. i have been using Daves grip for awhile but havent really paid attention to the pinky finger pressure. i use climos "fork" grip for my mid ranges. i guess its time to actually start thinking about what i am doing again! :shocked:

[Mikk]

Bruce is right. "Audible snap" isn't necessarily "good snap." A lot of times my drives have the audible snap (the finger snapping sound), and though it sounds cool, my disc does its normal mediocre flight. The snap you want to have sounds more like a "pfffssshhhh." The closest noise I can think of is the sound of the jet wash at Seatac when it first cuts through the air. Every once in a while I get that on my drives, but not often enough.

This is what I ment I just wasn't shure how to spell the sound.(pffthsssptptpp?) :jumpspin:
I still have the lazy hyzer bomb issue.

[TYVEK]

This is what I ment I just wasn't shure how to spell the sound.(pffthsssptptpp?) :jumpspin:
I still have the lazy hyzer bomb issue.

whats a lazy hyzer bomb?

[wilt]

does the pressure from your pinky and ring finger really make a big difference? and what sort of difference?


Ken Climo talked about this in a video (dont remember which one though), he said when the pinky/ring finger are added it activates the muscles and tendons in the lower forearm. He said to try and feel the difference by just pinching with thumb and first finger and feeling which muscles are activated and then add the pinky and ring finger and you should notice that more of your arm is now working for added grip strength.

[Mikk]

whats a lazy hyzer bomb?
This is what happens when I don't lower my shoulder upon my release. The grip is wrong and the disc comes outa my hand on a hyzer but with no power. I have been taking pix and its very obvious to see. My form is wrong for the shot I want to take. I just need more practice with the right players for input and suggestions, and working on my form overall.