Riverside facelift

[REDFIVE]

We started to reinstall the course today. There are 9 baskets out with the rest to be installed within the next week. We redesigned the course using some of the land near the bike track. The new layout will play as a par 58-60. There are some familiar holes and a few that will make you wonder. We have added a couple holes that play as 4's and a mammoth 800+ par 5. pitch and putt no more. Over time we will add some alt pin placements and have alt pads but all courses should follow the same track. Tee signs and next tee signs will be clear and confusion might be minimized. I think the new layout will make riverside a must play when we get some tourneys running out there again. Dubs will still run at 5 on tuesdays hopefully the course will be back in by next Tuesday the 31st, come check out the new layout! :rockon:

[KG_MCDGC]

Bravo PCDGPA(sp?)!!!

[sillybizz]

We started to reinstall the course today. There are 9 baskets out with the rest to be installed within the next week. We redesigned the course using some of the land near the bike track. The new layout will play as a par 58-60. There are some familiar holes and a few that will make you wonder. We have added a couple holes that play as 4's and a mammoth 800+ par 5. pitch and putt no more. Over time we will add some alt pin placements and have alt pads but all courses should follow the same track. Tee signs and next tee signs will be clear and confusion might be minimized. I think the new layout will make riverside a must play when we get some tourneys running out there again. Dubs will still run at 5 on tuesdays hopefully the course will be back in by next Tuesday the 31st, come check out the new layout! :rockon:

Sweet, I would love to get together with you down there and play a round, with another lesson perhaps?

[REDFIVE]

Sweet, I would love to get together with you down there and play a round, with another lesson perhaps?

Sounds good.

[sillybizz]

Sounds good.

Sweet! I have to wait until I get paid first though, I'll call you or send you a PM. :)

[Mikk]

so how many baskets are returning? Will the new design be like it was? I was always fond of throwing "red eye" with Greg. Our best was -13!! I think I'll play today there instead of white river and get a look around if ya'all don't mind.

[REDFIVE]

The course is new. We will not have 243 baskets to confuse people anymore. We will have18 and a practice basket. There is a work party today at about 3-4 to put most if not the rest of the baskets in the ground. You are all invited. Look or yell for todd bates.

[Mikk]

Cool I'm down. I want a crack at that 800 footer. Mabe I can get a 3 on it!!

[REDFIVE]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs208.ash2/47093_148772738479829_100000413105757_334780_17315 40_n.jpg

Here is the map for the new layout. holes 3-5 are not installed but should be shortly. They will be redesigned at some point. The BMX track is expanding parking and I wont be able to get a final design until I know exactly where they are extending to. All pads have paint on them with a number.
Hole 14 needs a teepad cut into the bushes, hole 8 can be cleared a bit more. There will be some changes for sure but I feel we have a good start. Signs will be up after the holes are put in. I plan to put a piece of tape on the baskets to direct to the next tee as a temp director. I will post when we will have our next work party. Any questions please ask. Good luck finding your way. The course as mapped plays as a par 59. enjoy!

[Mikk]

Thank you Todd for all your efforts in keeping Riverside alive. It was nice meeting you as well. I got a chance to play some of the new layout and its definately going to be sweet once all the pads and cleanup is done. Thanks again for ALL of those golfers who kept Riverside alive!!

[COV45]

Any word if all of the baskets are back up and have a full 18 yet?

[Mr. Anderson]

Riverside has 15 in the ground ready to be played. Lay out is painted on tee pads or area where tee pads will go and hopefully maps will be available at the course (just print one off this blog). Holes 3,4,5 are currently not installed.

[rockhound]

Sounds good i think i will go down there to day and play a round.:cheers:

[puyallupean]

i just played riverside yesterday and enjoyed the heck out it-thanks todd and chris and everybody else. Still had to pick up some beer cans with more laying around-word-if you can buy,pack it in,drink it down then throw the mofo away so we dont have to call yous guys white trash will ya freakin litterbugs. btw chris we still have 3 guys ready to sign up whenever we can find you(anyone think a webpage might help the cause there)

[Mr. Anderson]

Thank you for the suggestion for a web page capable of online sign-up. I know right now the website is basic and has no way of receiving payment. The best way to join is to get a hold of Chris or Todd personally and fill out an application. I know its not very efficient but its the best we can do now.

[sillybizz]

My name.... is Neo.

[Mr. Anderson]

still searching for answers to questions I have yet to ask

[mazza]

My name.... is Neo.

now to figure what pill to feed ya......oh yeah say hi to the rabbit.

has far the look of the new course......FREAKIN sweet :yay::rockon::cheers::trophy:




and that 800ft hole.....i had a clean look at an eagle the first time i played it....but thats as close to an eagle as i got.....heck that 2nd time i played it i may have gotten a 6 on it.....the trees around the basket makes it look harder then it is.....great design guys

[rockhound]

Two thumbs up, i like the layout of this course, i just hope that they keep this one if and when it gets put back to the old courses. river side just wouldn't be river side but still a kickass course.:cheers:
played 3 rounds of the 15 that where in, with some of the locals and had a great time. so get out there before the grass gets too tall to play on the 800+ hole.someone mowed the grass and it,s in excellent shape right now.:rockon:

[REDFIVE]

Don't get too attached to the layout. There is a local backlash at the redesign. Glad to hear it is well liked by some.

[sillybizz]

Don't get too attached to the layout. There is a local backlash at the redesign. Glad to hear it is well liked by some.

The old layout (s) were confusing to anyone but regulars, why not make a really awesome 18 holes then a confusing 8 different layouts? Let's use the land correctly, it's not like Disc Golf gets land thrown at us like this all the time. Great job on the redesign Chris, don't let the haters get you down, I support this layout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mikk]

I'm realy diggin it. So glad sa sa mofo is there too!! Realy challenging yet very playable. Good work..

[TYVEK]

i really think it is awesome how you guys redesigned this course!! i agree with Silly about how it could be confusing and you had people throwing discs all over the place with the old course.

It is Way better with this new layout and having people all throwing the same course. I really have to comend you for stepping up and making actuall golf pars with this course also, instead of just labeling everything par 3. i love playing courses with actual pars for each hole.

[Yoduh]

Course sounds awesome and it sounds like you are on the right path to creating a tough and challenging golf course. Don't let the locals overwhelm you. Just hold the course and memory's will fade. This happens at so many courses and it is for the best. When is the next big tourney? I will make it if I can. I always liked the land at riverside but thought it like Steilly was a good place to die.. Glad to hear that has changed!

[Darrin M]

Don't get too attached to the layout. There is a local backlash at the redesign. Glad to hear it is well liked by some.

I've played the new layout 3 times and the more I play it the more I'm starting to like it. The first time the grass was long and I didn't care for it. The next day somebody put in a ton of course work. The holes 12 and 15 looked great mowed. Those 2 holes were my only concern considering the maintenance its going to need.

Also about time people made Par 4 and par 5 holes around here. It took 3 perfect shots to set up a birdie on 15. great hole.

With a couple of work parties this could be the place to test your game. Please remind those people who hate it that it was also intended to be a tournament course and I think you did a Great job. I can't wait for a tournament to be at riverside.

[SPIDER-DAN]

I have always been a lover of multiple courses for years. Playing casual rounds and having choices of what courses to play with your buddies and not playing the same old boring course. Well, those days are long gone.........riverside has gotten way out of hand as fort steilacoom did and i for one sadly admit that. Fort steilacoom has come a long way and it is great to see the tournament courses coming together nicely and i think the riverside design will be a great success and locals are just going to have to accept that as i did. As i look at the map i am eager to come play it soon and get humbled. Is there a way you can put out the distances and pars on each hole here on the forum page?

Anyway.........great job chris and everyone else who helped........ Backlash or not........do not let the minority stop progress. I think you will find the majority will come and play and back you up 100%.

[papatart]

Hey Chris,

Looks like you guys have a whale of a course going right now and I am trying to figure out a way to get out and play there asap. Excellent job on not being happy to just go back to the way things were. Progress is good!

As for the old Riverside....I loved the red course for going out and being able to birdie every single hole but I would never-ever-ever play the course except during a tourney situation. The very first time I went to the course it took over 3 hours for me and another seasoned golfer to try and figure out our way around. Sure, you figure your way around but you never get away from the fact that on any given day on the course you have no idea where a disc is coming from because everyone is playing a different setup. DANGEROUS!

As I have said since I moved out here and my thought has not changed....I have played nearly 500 courses and have never seen the design idea of old Steiily/Riverside any where but here. I have seen many courses that have multiple pins and teepads but they use the same basic layout for each hole so that everyone is playing the same course. If the locals would like variety, then a multiple teepad idea and multiple pins layout for each hole in its area is the way to go. At Maple Hill (Massachussets) they have this situation and leave both pins in at all times (color coded baskets) With two pins and two baskets that gives four permanently installed courses with zero crossover and confusion. Most excellent!

I love the land of Riverside as it most resembles the course where I learned to play. I am excited to see this change and hope it stays this way as I am sure to get out there and play it much more often!

Thanks again Chris and all that helped and congratulations again on thinking outside the old and looking to better use an awesome piece of land.

Later,
Papa

[Tim]

If the locals would like variety, then a multiple teepad idea and multiple pins layout for each hole in its area is the way to go. At Maple Hill (Massachussets) they have this situation and leave both pins in at all times (color coded baskets) With two pins and two baskets that gives four permanently installed courses with zero crossover and confusion. Most excellent!


I would love to see more courses adopt this method.

[REDFIVE]

Things appear to be out of my control. The course will be different but similar to the red/blue layouts. not all that cool if you ask me. I think that if the course doesn't get the total makeover it may as well go back to the original layouts with clearly marked tees and baskets. But, who am I to decide?

[TreeLove]

People are generally resistant to change. Give them 6 months to adjust; they'll probably love it.

[Bullseye]

Things appear to be out of my control. The course will be different but similar to the red/blue layouts. not all that cool if you ask me. I think that if the course doesn't get the total makeover it may as well go back to the original layouts with clearly marked tees and baskets. But, who am I to decide?

What a shame. I was planning on making a drive up to check out the new design. It's too bad you couldn't sway the stubborn opinions into realizing how confusing and dangerous the old layout was.

[The Ombudsman]

I totally agree with Scott. I had the privilege of playing in the Vibram Open at Maple Hill and have been playing Brakewell Steel/Warwick regularly. Both of these courses have 2 sets of tees and two permanent baskets on every fairway. This allows for 4 different layouts to play with minimal cross over. Both of these courses are on my top 5 all time favorites list. The biggest drawback to this layout is if you choose to play the longer layouts, it is possible that people playing the short layouts will play right through you. Otherwise, this would be a splendid way to put all of those baskets in use!

[REDFIVE]

My layout will still be playable but I am not sure it will be the feature layout. Some ideas are still alive but for some reason the best hole is being turned into two. Hopefully I will be able to get my design on at a couple of places in the area rumored to possibly become courses.

[cefire]

Sorry to hear that the old tradition is getting in the way Chris. Kind of like Papa said, I played this course once and never felt the need to go back and play it again in its current state no matter how many same old deuce or die setups you could potentially play.

With all of the birdie courses, this seemed like a great opportunity to create a challenging course on the great land that Riverside has to offer...

[TYVEK]

i would say wait until the elections are held for the peirce county club and then really make a push for this new layout. you will have new people in power in the club and they might see things differently and would be willing to make changes happen to better the sport of disc golf, instead of give in to the people that are making a fuss.

[dan mc]

My layout will still be playable but I am not sure it will be the feature layout. Some ideas are still alive but for some reason the best hole is being turned into two. Hopefully I will be able to get my design on at a couple of places in the area rumored to possibly become courses.

and that"s how riverside ended up with 12 different courses in the first place every local had there own layout/safari way of playing it i believe yours used to be black or was it red eye or murder or orange or green or am etc etc etc

[dan mc]

sorry redfive just venting a bit i do respect eveything you"ve done down there though, but i wasn't really thrilled with the results. maybe i'm just afraid of change

[Bossman]

Don't be sorry dan. Sounds like you have at least some of the facts straight. I will point out though, I lived at Riverside for six years and resisted creating a course. I saw this coming.

[Yoduh]

I would pay to join the club in order to have my vote counted going towards the new layout..

[REDFIVE]

sorry redfive just venting a bit i do respect eveything you"ve done down there though, but i wasn't really thrilled with the results. maybe i'm just afraid of change

I did help design black and if I knew it would have evolved into everybody making up their owncourse I would have never done it.

What are your dislikes about the layout? I have beenhearing people say that people are complaining but nobody I have talked to has said anything negative to me.

[Mr. Anderson]

For me the main concern of Riverside should be #1 Safety, #2 is a tie...Ease of finding your way around and making the course challenging for a levels of players. Riverside in its old design strikes out on all three.

Criss-crossing multiple courses and even crossing within the same course should never happen. Both cases happened at Riverside. I could spend a half hour at the course and hear "fore!" being yelled a half dozen times. You had to look both ways before you threw your drive and when you were going down the fairway, and when you were putting (pretty much the whole time you were at the course)

When I first played the course earlier this spring there were a few signs at some tee pads, but after I got done playing the hole I hopefully could find another tee sign with in view or I had to search out what possibly could be the correct tee, but the next tee wasn't always labeled. Ease of finding your way around the course was improved a lot when colored coded signs were made along with numbers painted on the baskets. But then you saw that blue 8 and red 9 played to the same goal... hmmm if I'm playing blue 8 where is red 9 throwing from? proceed with caution (duck and cover) Hopefully this issue will be resolved with the approved final design.

As far as challenging disc golfers, Riverside had many different course to test your skill, which was great, but very unsafe. Red and Blue were the courses that were most played and were enjoyed by a lot of people. But they did not challenge all levels of players. And so, people decided to make an Am course, Green course, Orange course etc. etc. Which made for more confusion.

Ultimately I would like to see the best 18 holer possible at Riverside and then "expand" safely by adding alt pads and baskets. It has been stated earlier that multiple tee pads and multiple goals on a shared fairway is one way to have different degrees of challenge within the same course and I totally agree. If 36 baskets are not available multiple sleeves where the basket can be rotated through is another option.

If someone has ideas or insight they would like to share I would love to hear it. Please try to be constructive in your responses. Statements like "it sucks" and "I liked the old course" does not help progression of design. Why does it suck and what you like about the old course is much more helpful.

Done typing

[Mikk]

There are 3 things making issue here. 1 there is a lot of newer players and they like things easy. 2 the "locals" liked having choices and understand the layout of the land and know when to duck. 3 the tourney players know that riverside can become a killer and challenging 18 hole course with the proper setup.
Me? I like option 3. Sometimes I like things easy but it doesn't help me improve my overall play. Fortunately I made quick friends with Greg and other locals so that made it easy to get around. Before I got "in" with some local players Riverside ate my plastic like a fat guy at an all you can eat buffet. If you ask me Riverside "could be" 19 baskets with 2 t-pads per. 1 set am and 1 set pro with the proper SUPPORT from the locals and others.

[dan mc]

After playin the new layout a few times here are a couple things i can see as possible problems #1) alot of blue/red pin positions are still being used. More people were trying to play the course the way they are used too playing it than were playing the new layout. So without removing all teepads no longer being used i don"t see this problem ever going away. So with the even longer fairways that play across several of the old fairways ,a good portion of which are fairly blind the course is as dangerous as ever. #2) Flow the flow of the course is sorta awkward there"s some fairly long walk outs and walking down 13's fairway to get to 14's pad seems aliitle sketchy #3) how is the county and whomever decleard the park a wetlands going to react as the new fair ways get beaten in and can they be maintained properly when they are established. Red and Blue were way cooler the the course getting yanked because the wrong shrub got cut or trampled.

Sorry for sounding so negative , but I think these are fairly valid concerns

[EternalNoob]

Just thought I'd drop in and say something regarding Riverside...As a player that is new to the game and that sucks...BAD...I'd like to say that I enjoy the new course layout. It is frustrating and very challenging but after a time or two around the course I now know where I've got to put the disc. It rarely gets there but practice makes perfect right? There is only one hole that I kinda dislike...10...It ate my favorite driver but that was my fault for sucking. 15 is awesome even though it takes 5 drives for me to even see the pin. It's a nice walk in the park and I'd love to par that mamba jamba. It's my life goal actually! The old layout was confusing at best and had the potential of being very dangerous. I hope that can be resolved.
That being said...As a non paying player (not in the club...yet) I don't have room to talk about changes or even the right to make suggestions regardless of how long I have or have not played there. That should be the clubs stance as well...No pay no say! The club pays for pins and pads. They should decide where they go...Not the people who can scream the loudest.

[REDFIVE]

what has been done is in no way a final product. There is still some work to be done and changes to be made. There will be tee signs and directional guides of some sort. There is a board meeting on wednesday and I hope that the course design will be decided or atleast discussed. The baskets were only put in because todd (pcdgpa riverside rep) was feeling the heat from players at the course. Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club. No decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right.

[Bossman]

"somewhat independent from the club"....So if I become a member, I can
run around moving baskets, tearing down signs, ripping up benches, and covering up perfectly good tee pads?

Sounds like fun. Sign me up.

[dan mc]

what has been done is in no way a final product. There is still some work to be done and changes to be made. There will be tee signs and directional guides of some sort. There is a board meeting on wednesday and I hope that the course design will be decided or atleast discussed. The baskets were only put in because todd (pcdgpa riverside rep) was feeling the heat from players at the course. Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club. No decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right.thank you sir for all your hard work! we may not agree on some things, but i respect your determination to get something done and hopefully your efforts will inspire more of us club members and local disc golfers l to get some shit done.

[REDFIVE]

"somewhat independent from the club"....So if I become a member, I can
run around moving baskets, tearing down signs, ripping up benches, and covering up perfectly good tee pads?

Sounds like fun. Sign me up.

What size shirt do you need boss?

[cefire]

thank you sir for all your hard work! we may not agree on some things, but i respect your determination to get something done and hopefully your efforts will inspire more of us club members and local disc golfers l to get some shit done.

Ditto, someone who can make it happen, get something done. Not just the same-old same-old. The only thing the (hopefully) 'old' Riverside has going for it was that it was always designed like that. Back in 1993, the Scorpion was an 'ultra-long range driver', now ~20 years later I think the course may be due for a little change.

In time, people won't even remember the old pitch'n putt, they'll be attached to the new (& improved course). Happens everywhere, all over the country, or at least the 4 clubs that I've heavily involved with - 6 months after a redesign, everyone is happy and couldn't imagine going back to the dark ages.


This might be another good place to find opinions of others (both who enjoy and do not enjoy the old layout): http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=742&mode=rev

[Bossman]

What size shirt do you need boss?

That would be XL Chris. I'm serious about becoming a member. I'd like to help with the confusion factor.

[discin'4fun]

Per Chris......"Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club...no decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right."[/QUOTE]

I'm not a club member but seeing that things are being done independently of the club (somewhat confusing)--does that mean locals do have a voice in this matter?? I'm not saying that the club shouldn't have the final say, but I do think a sort of "government" setup should listen to the, could we say "peasants" of the land.

Anyway, I'm starting to like the idea of a newly setup course. I wonder about holes going out over the gravel parking lot. Are cars going to be hit? Will the fishermen's space be invaded where people and cars can be hit? Plus, I really do think that BMX should be respected as they played a HUGE part in saving the course by getting the park on the news, writing letters to county reps, etc.

So if those things are taken into consideration when making adjustments to the course, I'm all for some change. It must be pointed out, as well, that the course has been marked several times over the past years, but then washed out by floods. The last hand painted signs put into the ground were very quickly, unfortunately, washed away by the last flood despite being put in with rebar in the wood. Some remain, but many are gone. It would be cool to preserve as much "art" as possible to show respect to those who have given their time to the course.

Thanks for keeping up with these posts, Chris!

[Tim]

I really like the way this conversation is evolving.

[Ol' Bob]

I like the way it's being created.

I know, that added nothing. It's just life in the peanut gallery.

Hoping everything gets sorted painlessly.

[EternalNoob]

So...There is a meeting the 29th? (http://piercecountydiscgolf.com/1.html). The site says it's is open to all members. If I show up can I join the club and speak up or ask questions?

If so...Y'all take cash?

[REDFIVE]

So...There is a meeting the 29th? (http://piercecountydiscgolf.com/1.html). The site says it's is open to all members. If I show up can I join the club and speak up or ask questions?

If so...Y'all take cash?

I don't see why not. I thought it was a board member meeting otherwise I would have posted it as an open member meeting.

[REDFIVE]

Per Chris......"Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club...no decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right."

I'm not a club member but seeing that things are being done independently of the club (somewhat confusing)--does that mean locals do have a voice in this matter?? I'm not saying that the club shouldn't have the final say, but I do think a sort of "government" setup should listen to the, could we say "peasants" of the land.

Anyway, I'm starting to like the idea of a newly setup course. I wonder about holes going out over the gravel parking lot. Are cars going to be hit? Will the fishermen's space be invaded where people and cars can be hit? Plus, I really do think that BMX should be respected as they played a HUGE part in saving the course by getting the park on the news, writing letters to county reps, etc.

So if those things are taken into consideration when making adjustments to the course, I'm all for some change. It must be pointed out, as well, that the course has been marked several times over the past years, but then washed out by floods. The last hand painted signs put into the ground were very quickly, unfortunately, washed away by the last flood despite being put in with rebar in the wood. Some remain, but many are gone. It would be cool to preserve as much "art" as possible to show respect to those who have given their time to the course.

Thanks for keeping up with these posts, Chris!"

The riverside rep wasn't happy with the lack of progress by the club in getting the baskets ready for install. The rep took it upon himself to get the baskets back from the club and organize to have the baskets theft repelanted and installed back into the course. a group of riverside locals did the work on the baskets and the course. most of these people were not, and still are not, club members. The ideas of a new layout had been talked about but the final design was never chosen by the club. This was a split second decision by a select few as the baskets were being put back in.

the people still have a voice and this voice can be heard at the meeting on wednesday.

The roads will be OB. The fisherman have been taken into account and we are trying to stay away from their area. I had a great talk with Mark who is in charge of the BMX track and he is excited about letting us expand closer to the track. He was very understanding about our want to expand and gave me a few simple guidelines. I got the go ahead to use more area than I had expected. I guess we have to get the ok from the parks department before we can expand. but this is third party info. hopefully this will all be addressed at the meeting.

Anybody that has an opinion that they want to express please come to the meeting. If you are not a current member come anyway and sign up. $20.

You are welcome.

[discin'4fun]

The riverside rep wasn't happy with the lack of progress by the club in getting the baskets ready for install. The rep took it upon himself to get the baskets back from the club and organize to have the baskets theft repelanted and installed back into the course. a group of riverside locals did the work on the baskets and the course. most of these people were not, and still are not, club members. The ideas of a new layout had been talked about but the final design was never chosen by the club. This was a split second decision by a select few as the baskets were being put back in.

the people still have a voice and this voice can be heard at the meeting on wednesday.

The roads will be OB. The fisherman have been taken into account and we are trying to stay away from their area. I had a great talk with Mark who is in charge of the BMX track and he is excited about letting us expand closer to the track. He was very understanding about our want to expand and gave me a few simple guidelines. I got the go ahead to use more area than I had expected. I guess we have to get the ok from the parks department before we can expand. but this is third party info. hopefully this will all be addressed at the meeting.

Anybody that has an opinion that they want to express please come to the meeting. If you are not a current member come anyway and sign up. $20.

You are welcome.


I will admit that I and several of my friends left the work party out of disappointment that the creek side was being mowed, because we knew the Pierce County Parks Department had forbidden that area to be mowed and we wanted no part in it. Mark Kilmer and Todd were at the meeting in mid-2008 where the threat of the course being pulled was lifted, with permission to keep using the course as long as we respected the rules they laid down at that time. I am concerned that my hard work and Kilmer's hard work will have been for nothing if things are done outside of the club without adequate knowledge of these rules. Tacoma Disc Golf Association was granted the lease after hard work and persistance, especially by Kilmer and his wife. I don't understand if TDGA has renamed itself as Pierce County Disc Golf Association with the President's agreement, that being Kilmer, or if it is a completely separate club.

Perhaps I misunderstand--was permission granted to mow along the creek side? I hope you are all consulting with Kilmer, whom I believe has more knowledge of the agreement with the County than those who I see are taking action now (if you're not already consulting with him). I put in many, many hours from 2006 to 2008 when the course was in danger of being pulled spending time sending dozens of e-mails to several Parks Department officials, spending much time on the phone and in person with the County and BMX Mark. I would be very disappointed to see our privileges taken away and I just want to ask that you tread carefully with the endeavor of changing the course around. I wish I had time now to participate as much as I did in those two years, but my career is taking precedence now. Joining the club right now is something I hesitate to do until I see that it is an ORGANIZATION with the voted-in board members and President running the show. Please let me know when a Riverside Rep was officially elected via vote.

Putting the baskets back in was wonderful. Further adjustments to the course, as I said, need to be done in the context of County rules or our course may be taken away from us. Allowing us to move closer to the BMX territory will definitely turn Riverside into a more friendly tournament course, where right now it really isn't suitable due to its size.

Well, I just felt the need to voice all of this in an effort to help keep things going, even though I haven't given you $20 to listen to me.

[EternalNoob]

Further adjustments to the course, as I said, need to be done in the context of County rules or our course may be taken away from us.

Here, here...

If the fairway on the new proposed 15 or any other hole regarded as a wetland cannot in fact be mowed or maintained in any way (other than invasive species removal) then those areas should be left out of the plan for the sake of future maintenance and a good relationship with the county.

Sorry I mowed the park...Twice.:o The first time was under guidance at "the work party" where it was clearly stated that no motorized vehicles were allowed...We used walk behinds.

-Kelly

P.S. Just in case I can't make the meeting...Can someone please bring up all the huge dead trees at Riverside to the county? Someone is gonna get seriously hurt or killed. If the county isn't gonna maintain the park they should at least commit to keeping it safe. They need to be dealt with ASAP before the foliage falls off of the live trees which will make it hard to know which is which.

[discin'4fun]

Here, here...

If the fairway on the new proposed 15 or any other hole regarded as a wetland cannot in fact be mowed or maintained in any way (other than invasive species removal) then those areas should be left out of the plan for the sake of future maintenance and a good relationship with the county.

Sorry I mowed the park...Twice.:o The first time was under guidance at "the work party" where it was clearly stated that no motorized vehicles were allowed...We used walk behinds.

-Kelly

P.S. Just in case I can't make the meeting...Can someone please bring up all the huge dead trees at Riverside to the county? Someone is gonna get seriously hurt or killed. If the county isn't gonna maintain the park they should at least commit to keeping it safe. They need to be dealt with ASAP before the foliage falls off of the live trees which will make it hard to know which is which.

I hear ya on that one, Kelly. Those trees definitely need to be taken care of, something I was hoping TDGA would realize. They are required to have liability insurance as part of the lease with the County--but hopefully they can avoid using it by keeping the park safe. I could be wrong about the walk behinds being allowed for mowing, but to my knowledge no mowing was to be done. There are some residents in the area who are keeping an eye on us golfers to make sure Nature is preserved.

[dan mc]

what is considered a motorized vehicle and is the county a little .....pissed? did great intentions become bad things? rumors are we losing her

[sillybizz]

what is considered a motorized vehicle?

Any vehicle with a motor.

[Bossman]

I guess the county would have the last word regarding closure. I have spoken to Dave (he's the guy who comes into the park in the county truck) and he indicated that the county was not happy about the mowing in the "wetlands". Babbit told me they threatened him with a large fine and possible jail time if he used even a weed eater in that area. Time and the meeting on the 29th will tell.

[dan mc]

Any vehicle with a motor.

so the walk behind mowers might not have been a good idea.:slapface:

[Bossman]

That area, when mowed, is one of the sweetest looking fairways at Riverside. But the county is totally against it.
The mowing that is.

[EternalNoob]

Sinking feeling in my gut...Uhg....Should I call and fess up/apologize?

Helluva a way to try and get involved with the community. Can I do right by y'all?

[Bossman]

Don't sweat it Noob, you didn't know. You have already done right by me, the place looks good, thank you. After all, I don't agree with the county and liked it a lot better when the course was truly "player maintained" and the county wasn't so intrusive.

[Bossman]

Maybe REDFIVE should chime in and let us know how we stand?

[REDFIVE]

Maybe REDFIVE should chime in and let us know how we stand?

I was stuck at work for the meeting and have no clue. It would be nice if someone that actually represented the club would get on here and inform the masses. I have been doing it only because no one else has. Anybody? I will work on that XL.:rockon:

[discin'4fun]

Sinking feeling in my gut...Uhg....Should I call and fess up/apologize?

Helluva a way to try and get involved with the community. Can I do right by y'all?

You're not responsible for taking any of the blame in the mowing along the creekside. It's the person who was in charge of the work party that was responsible. As for you, the community's got your back!!

[EternalNoob]

Just played an AM round at Riverside this morning...There is a basket gone on 16? It was there on Tuesday and gone Wednesday...Anybody know 'bout that? I think it was one of the brand spankin' new ones.

[rockhound]

Are the last three baskets in yet

[Mr. Anderson]

The basket for #16 was found pulled out of the ground next to its intended position 2 Sundays ago. A concerned local called the club president and informed him of the incident. I believe the same person still has the basket and will be placed back into the ground with the proper reinforcement at a later date.

As far as the maintenance that has happened the past 2 months... The July 31st work party had permission to trim in the wetland area with the walk behind trim mowers and hand held trimmers. Any other maintenance was above and beyond the clubs know-abouts.

As far as the "other three baskets." Decisions will be made at the September 29th meeting, please come out and express your concerns and ideas... I'll see you there.

[Mr. Anderson]

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/jjmackey7/Riverside/1012010creekholeseliminated.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/jjmackey7/Riverside/9292010proposal-1.jpg

A couple of options for Riverside.
Design Priorities
1. Safety... No Crossing Fairways, avoid two hole playing to the same basket
2. Use as many tee pads and fairways already constructed
3. Reduce time and effort spent on maintenance aka time spent looking for discs
4. Increase challenge of course

Pierce County Land Management (flood zone planning) will only allow minimal maintenance in the wet lands areas, but preferably none. 5' path from tee pad to basket and landing zone area around basket is allowable but during the summer the grass on the east side of the park can get waist high which makes it quite unplayable if your shot isn't perfect. New areas to the west have less maintenance issues since its really sandy and no grass.
Please respond back with like/dislikes/criticism/ideas. The ultimate goal is to have Riverside an 18 hole course with signage so a person who has never played disc golf can show up and safely play without getting lost. I realize people will continue to play "Safari" golf, but people on the posted "Official" course will have the right-of-way and all other golfers should respect that by not throwing over their heads. If any other people would like to design an option for riverside, send me your email and i will send you a blank map with current tee pads. Riverside will be player maintained and player designed...

[Jeremy Frieling]

Mr. Anderson...
Like a majority of your proposed layout. Ultimately, I just want to see a new(ish) layout get approved so that we can move ahead and get all the baskets back up and proceed with signage for the course. My only criticism would be... I would rather tee from old blue 4 for hole 1 rather then from the shelter. Blue 4 is a bit more difficult and quite frankly I get claustrophobic teeing from the shelter. Also I like old blue 2 (big hyzer mando) rather then old red 17 (annie bomb mando). An other idea that I would like to propose would be to adopt a White River like winter/summer course layout. I feel that we would be able to play the creekside in the winter with little to no worries about lost plastic. When things start to get waist high (or a couple of weeks before) we could move 2 more holes into the new A,B,C area for a summer layout. I have done some walking back there with Chris and it appears that there is ample room for expansion back there. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the work that you have put into developing a new course layout.

[dan mc]

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/jjmackey7/Riverside/1012010creekholeseliminated.jpg
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd398/jjmackey7/Riverside/9292010proposal-1.jpg

A couple of options for Riverside.
Design Priorities
1. Safety... No Crossing Fairways, avoid two hole playing to the same basket
2. Use as many tee pads and fairways already constructed
3. Reduce time and effort spent on maintenance aka time spent looking for discs
4. Increase challenge of course

Pierce County Land Management (flood zone planning) will only allow minimal maintenance in the wet lands areas, but preferably none. 5' path from tee pad to basket and landing zone area around basket is allowable but during the summer the grass on the east side of the park can get waist high which makes it quite unplayable if your shot isn't perfect. New areas to the west have less maintenance issues since its really sandy and no grass.
Please respond back with like/dislikes/criticism/ideas. The ultimate goal is to have Riverside an 18 hole course with signage so a person who has never played disc golf can show up and safely play without getting lost. I realize people will continue to play "Safari" golf, but people on the posted "Official" course will have the right-of-way and all other golfers should respect that by not throwing over their heads. If any other people would like to design an option for riverside, send me your email and i will send you a blank map with current tee pads. Riverside will be player maintained and player designed...

anioher issue to starting in the shelter is the fact you need to walk across 2 fairways to get there so saftey wise it may make sense to start elsewhere,though most eveyone meets there and then walks to hole 1(wherever that may be.... )jeremy might be on to something with the summer/ winter layout idea though

[discin'4fun]

Speaking of Riverside being unsafe....have you been there recently? It's a zoo with the baskets missing. Any chance of putting them back in while the new courses are being designed? Most people know red and blue, though with the baskets gone they really can't be played. Green is still mostly playable with only having to make up 3 holes.

Regarding the suggestion of alternate courses based on the seasons....the rainy season makes the creek rise, making it not a friendly winter course. Are you aware of the many floods that have occurred over the years?

Another option would be to leave Riverside in place as it was and to start another challenging course elsewhere, as already discussed with the County ... Orange Gate, Cross Creek, probably others I'm not aware of.

[puyallupean]

i have heard a few people just wanting to move the baskets on their own if something is not communicated,why not putem back until you decide what to do or let people know what you are doing. im going down there today so maybe you already haveSpeaking of Riverside being unsafe....have you been there recently? It's a zoo with the baskets missing. Any chance of putting them back in while the new courses are being designed? Most people know red and blue, though with the baskets gone they really can't be played. Green is still mostly playable with only having to make up 3 holes.

Regarding the suggestion of alternate courses based on the seasons....the rainy season makes the creek rise, making it not a friendly winter course. Are you aware of the many floods that have occurred over the years?

Another option would be to leave Riverside in place as it was and to start another challenging course elsewhere, as already discussed with the County ... Orange Gate, Cross Creek, probably others I'm not aware of.

[Mr. Anderson]

Jeremy: Red 4 crosses blue 18 otherwise i would have used that pad for #1. I would not propose to tee off from within the shelter i would like to see a full size pad beyond the roof and posts of the shelter. Both of the designs use blue 2 and not red 17.... I too like the hyzer bomb

discin'4fun: Baskets missing from the course does not make Riverside a zoo... an unmarked course does. The course will be properly marked when a design has been voted on by members of the pierce county disc golf club. We would love to throw the baskets back in the park but we are allowing time for people to propose any ideas or solutions for "too many courses on not enough land" Currently, Red and Blue can still be played, they are just 15 hole courses. Orange Gate was discussed at the most recent meeting with the Parks Department. That piece of land is YEARS away from being developed.. that is why improving Riverside for everyone is a good idea.

[Bossman]

Mr. Anderson: I think what discin'4fun is eluding to, is that with the baskets gone, "SAFARI" golf is the only option. As far as being marked? I recall the work that Todd put in, marking both Red and Blue for the juniors tourney. Kudos to Todd, nice work. Right now, when that guy who "never played before" shows up at Riverside…hell, anybody who's never played there, has no idea…NO IDEA! That's because when the baskets were pulled "to teach a lesson", you guys pulled the signs too! Seems like an inefficient use of available resources to me. I suggest you try to work with people instead of taking a position that only recognizes the "club" and your takeover agenda, you will find that folks are more cooperative, and more creative with their input.

[Mr. Anderson]

Mr. Anderson: I think what discin'4fun is eluding to, is that with the baskets gone, "SAFARI" golf is the only option. As far as being marked? I recall the work that Todd put in, marking both Red and Blue for the juniors tourney. Kudos to Todd, nice work. Right now, when that guy who "never played before" shows up at Riverside…hell, anybody who's never played there, has no idea…NO IDEA! That's because when the baskets were pulled "to teach a lesson", you guys pulled the signs too! Seems like an inefficient use of available resources to me. I suggest you try to work with people instead of taking a position that only recognizes the "club" and your takeover agenda, you will find that folks are more cooperative, and more creative with their input.

The baskets at Riverside were not pulled "to teach a lesson" They were pulled to be welded and have the security collars mounted so people would have a lot harder time stealing them. All the baskets have not been put back in because the original designs of the course are not safe. Crossing fairways and playing to the same basket from different directions on a course is Safari. Anybody is able to design a course and submit it to be voted upon by all club members.

I agree, right now people who show up to Riverside have no idea where to go. This is a temporary problem. But, putting the baskets where they were does not solve that problem, correct signage at all tee pads and maps will solve the problem. We can't do either until an "official layout" is accepted.

Todd did a great job making and installing signs, it helped the course tremendously, but he was also the person that took down that signage. I am trying to work with everybody, everybody has a chance to propose a design, everybody has a chance to vote for a design they like. Nobody is taking over, taking over what? The goal is to make Riverside a safe course that challenges all levels of disc golfers on one course. Putting all the baskets back where they were does not do this. Please Vote this Weekend.

[discin'4fun]

The baskets at Riverside were not pulled "to teach a lesson" They were pulled to be welded and have the security collars mounted so people would have a lot harder time stealing them. All the baskets have not been put back in because the original designs of the course are not safe. Crossing fairways and playing to the same basket from different directions on a course is Safari. Anybody is able to design a course and submit it to be voted upon by all club members.

I agree, right now people who show up to Riverside have no idea where to go. This is a temporary problem. But, putting the baskets where they were does not solve that problem, correct signage at all tee pads and maps will solve the problem. We can't do either until an "official layout" is accepted.

Actually, Bossman, I was also eluding to the fact that most people I see at the course when I go play are locals who know blue, red, green, etc. My friends are still playing these courses, we're just making up holes for the 3 missing baskets so we can play our round of 18 holes. What's the point of keeping them out, really? Doesn't make much sense, but I'm glad the elections are this weekend and I'm hoping that means something can be put back in really soon rather than months from now. Even waiting for a new course to be chosen before putting baskets in really does not make total sense, it's just punishing the locals from even playing the old standards (whether you admit to it or not).

[Bossman]

The baskets at Riverside were not pulled "to teach a lesson" They were pulled to be welded and have the security collars mounted so people would have a lot harder time stealing them. All the baskets have not been put back in because the original designs of the course are not safe. Crossing fairways and playing to the same basket from different directions on a course is Safari. Anybody is able to design a course and submit it to be voted upon by all club members.

I agree, right now people who show up to Riverside have no idea where to go. This is a temporary problem. But, putting the baskets where they were does not solve that problem, correct signage at all tee pads and maps will solve the problem. We can't do either until an "official layout" is accepted.

Todd did a great job making and installing signs, it helped the course tremendously, but he was also the person that took down that signage. I am trying to work with everybody, everybody has a chance to propose a design, everybody has a chance to vote for a design they like. Nobody is taking over, taking over what? The goal is to make Riverside a safe course that challenges all levels of disc golfers on one course. Putting all the baskets back where they were does not do this. Please Vote this Weekend.

You really should check your facts before calling me a liar, boy. You will see below the post that I quoted from, and its author. I am not in the habit of quoting something that was never said. I told Mark that I would try to play nice, but your arguments, in my view, won't float. I remember asking you how much talk there had been about a new layout before the theft. You said "a lot". I said that I was against it and your reply was "then why pull the baskets". Right now you sound like a ten year old trying to blame others versus taking responsibility for your actions. I am not impressed.




REDFIVE
Join Date:
August 29th, 2008
Location:
Sumner, WA
Posts:
963


The baskets arebeing pulled by the club to teach a lesson and to make them more theft proof. Not sure how long they will be pulled for but as of now don't expect them back any time soon.

[Ode]

nothing posted on this site is anywhere near official. any official information will be found on the clubs website

[Bossman]

nothing posted on this site is anywhere near official. any official information will be found on the clubs website

There is nothing concerning this issue on that website. I check it daily.

[REDFIVE]

2 course proposal.
questions? concerns?
http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae55/two52six9/PRO-AM.jpg?1287198073

[Sean Johnson]

Not to distract from the lively debate, but I was planning on coming over to the West side to play and was really looking forward to playing Riverside. I actually liked the old setup and we had very few problems navigating the Reds and Blues. With that being said, there is a lot of potential for a vastly improved layout, so good luck with the redesign. Anyway, is Riverside worth playing right now? How many baskets are in the ground, and do you think that I could reasonably navigate the course?

[Bossman]

Look who's back, trouble is, even your arm isn't long enough to reach though the toilet to the local treatment plant, and recover your credibility. This thread has been a waist of technology and time. I will be seeking my information elsewhere and submitting my layouts to the clubs website. Maybe someone there has a clue.
Uh oh, not you Sean, I was speaking to REDFIVE. As far as playing Riverside? The air is still there and the plastic will still fly. Come on by.

[Mr. Anderson]

[QUOTE=Bossman;78941]You really should check your facts before calling me a liar, boy. You will see below the post that I quoted from, and its author. I am not in the habit of quoting something that was never said. I told Mark that I would try to play nice, but your arguments, in my view, won't float. I remember asking you how much talk there had been about a new layout before the theft. You said "a lot". I said that I was against it and your reply was "then why pull the baskets". Right now you sound like a ten year old trying to blame others versus taking responsibility for your actions. I am not impressed.

How did I call you a Liar? Is Redfive an official spokesperson of the PCDGA? Am I? Who am I blaming for actions I took? What action have I took? I proposed a design and gave reasons why the old lay out is unsafe. I am not personally in charge of putting the baskets in or taking them out. I am part of the Pierce County Disc Golf Club and so are you... you are just as responsible as I am for what happens at Riverside. If you do not like a redesign of Riverside then let the board of directors know and vote accordingly.

[sillybizz]

This thread doesn't exactly make me want to join your club or play your course.

[REDFIVE]

I am not a PCDGPA representative, I just play one on the internet. Sorry for relaying info from the wrong people. Not sure how much credibility I had to lose in the first place and I don't really throw all that far. Sorry that I have created hard feeling, for what I am unsure. Riverside was the first course I had ever played and I still live 5 minutes away. I want what is best for the course and if some people see my best as different from their best I don't know what to say. I started working not too long ago and have since pulled myself back from taking as much action on this issue as I previously had. I have been here the whole time just didn't feel the need to comment until now. Boss, I enjoy playing golf with you and hope all is well. The course will be done, it is just moving at the speed of club. Justr don't quote me on that it may not be a true representation of how the club feels about this subject.

[discgolfers-R-LAZY]

why should a club have to get involed in this stupid name calling and waste of time! join the club, come to a meeting and have a say ,do your part,work as a group,and most of all have good ideas to fix the problems. we already spend time talking about this at meetings we are not going to do it here for all the lazy players that can not make time to come to a meeting sit at home and bitch about what we are doing for disc golf on this site .. STEP UP OR SHUT UP we need help to get this done and this is not it. again all club info will come from PCDG.COM we are a players association we are for the player.

[Matt B.]

why should a club have to get involed in this stupid name calling and waste of time! join the club, come to a meeting and have a say ,do your part,work as a group,and most of all have good ideas to fix the problems. we already spend time talking about this at meetings we are not going to do it here for all the lazy players that can not make time to come to a meeting sit at home and bitch about what we are doing for disc golf on this site .. STEP UP OR SHUT UP we need help to get this done and this is not it. again all club info will come from PCDG.COM we are a players association we are for the player.

www.pcdg.com ? http://www.google.com/search?q=pcdg.com&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7GGLD_en

Or were you too lazy to type out the address? :cop:

[discgolfers-R-LAZY]

www.pcdg.com ? http://www.google.com/search?q=pcdg.com&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7GGLD_en

Or were you too lazy to type out the address? :cop:

no i just type piercecountydiscgolf.com

[discgolfers-R-LAZY]

I am not a PCDGPA representative, I just play one on the internet. Sorry for relaying info from the wrong people. Not sure how much credibility I had to lose in the first place and I don't really throw all that far. Sorry that I have created hard feeling, for what I am unsure. Riverside was the first course I had ever played and I still live 5 minutes away. I want what is best for the course and if some people see my best as different from their best I don't know what to say. I started working not too long ago and have since pulled myself back from taking as much action on this issue as I previously had. I have been here the whole time just didn't feel the need to comment until now. Boss, I enjoy playing golf with you and hope all is well. The course will be done, it is just moving at the speed of club. Justr don't quote me on that it may not be a true representation of how the club feels about this subject.

the speed of the club is only as fast as the players that help

[sillybizz]

the speed of the club is only as fast as the players that help

How many different screen names are the Admins going to allow you to have?!

[REDFIVE]

How many different screen names are the Admins going to allow you to have?!

There are two kilmers on here. Mark is the dorky one.:rockon: had to do it, sorry Mark.

[sillybizz]

That's really confusing. Sorry.

[Tim]

What about the three Phillips? The two Hanleys? The two Clarks? The two Littles? :whistler:

[emmarose]

What about the three Phillips? The two Hanleys? The two Clarks? The two Littles? :whistler:

oh! leave the hanleys out of this mess... we don't even know where riverside is... ;)

peace,
em

p.s. well... maybe david hanley does... so i guess there's actually three hanleys...

[sillybizz]

What about the three Phillips? The two Hanleys? The two Clarks? The two Littles? :whistler:

I'm the cute looking Little!!!

[Toby Puttzinski]

Cute in a 'pug' sort of way, perhaps...

[Bossman]

677

678

[REDFIVE]

I. Like the green inspired 2nd course! Both are good designs. Do you have gregs Email to get them posted to the club site?

[Ode]

only problem is we need to limit how much of the wetlands area we play to be as minimal as possible. the parks department will only let us mow a path 3 feet wide from the pad to the basket and a 30 foot circle around the basket. with the new area we can now use, we can fit in new holes to replace those if needed i guess.

[Mikk]

I like Bossmans 2nd pic as a nice course to play. Challenging and fun at the same time. I think that would bring in PDGA tourneys. I can only imagine the stamp on a champ Boss now!!

[REDFIVE]

only problem is we need to limit how much of the wetlands area we play to be as minimal as possible. the parks department will only let us mow a path 3 feet wide from the pad to the basket and a 30 foot circle around the basket. with the new area we can now use, we can fit in new holes to replace those if needed i guess.

With boss' 2nd course hole 5(MMM) plays to the hill which doesn't grow much grassnear the basket. 6 is the same way and isn't too long as to not be reachable. 7 might be a bit tougher to keep mowed but still shouldn't be too bad. The only problem I see is with 3 & 10 being so close together. 9 being a long blindish shot at both teepads is kind of dangerous. Maybe take those out and add two extra holes after 2 and walk to 11 after 9.

[Mikk]

your right about 3 and 10. so keep 10, but what about 3? shorten 9 basket and make that 5 (a slight left hooker), and keep 5 basket and make that 9.

[Bossman]

The #3 tee is not a problem, it's 40 to 50 feet from the fairway for what is now #9. It just looks closer on the map.
I do believe the #10 basket (or blue 3 or red 15) is problematic and should be moved in ANY case. We could also move #11 tee closer to the hole and move the basket back a bit. That would make the hole shorter but with a more challenging finish.

[Mikk]

The #3 tee is not a problem, it's 40 to 50 feet from the fairway for what is now #9. It just looks closer on the map.
I do believe the #10 basket (or blue 3 or red 15) is problematic and should be moved in ANY case. We could also move #11 tee closer to the hole and move the basket back a bit. That would make the hole shorter but with a more challenging finish.

Looks like you got a fine design idea!! I can't wait-if this is the final design:yay:
Please tell me you kept the "say say mofo" hole intact tho.

[Ode]

with the green map, what about 3 playing at 11, the walk from 10 to 11 between two fairways, and isnt hole 8 in the wetlands as well? its a good idea, but just a few changes need to be made i think.

[Bossman]

Just came from club website. There is a tab for Riverside now. John's map is posted there. How do we get other proposals posted?

[Ode]

if you submit them in under the feedback tab, our IT guy should be able to post them soon. however, im pretty sure hes going to be posting yours up already for the voting process

[Bossman]

Kool, thanks Ode, I wasn't sure it was still undecided. Maybe Gregg could post a bit more information on the site.

Thank's again Ode.

[Subruise]

i say we just nuke the place and let it go back to the planet. all this bickering over something that used to be so beautiful.....the love of the land has led to the hate for people who used to be family. that place wasnt dangerous until everybody decided to make up their own versions, heck it was even VERY well marked until a few years ago.

I realize that change happens, but it is important to learn from the past. and you dont need to be in a club to have a voice, or play in tourneys. until the club is for the actual good of everybody and not just pdga or$$$$$$$$$$$$$ crap, the club can eff itself.

i really hope some good comes out of this, and not the selfish kind.

Rob V

[Bossman]

No Nukes required, this land is ruled by the river. We're just fortunate to be able play in between. Eh, Bob?

[Subruise]

indeed

[Jeremy Frieling]

"and you dont need to be in a club to have a voice, or play in tourneys. until the club is for the actual good of everybody and not just pdga or$$$$$$$$$$$$$ crap, the club can eff itself."

i really hope some good comes out of this, and not the selfish kind.

I understand that Riverside the course, Riverside the locals, and the Pierce County Disc Golf Players Association has been going through some interesting and delicate situations since 6 baskets came up missing. I feel that this is neither the time nor the place to circle the wagons and start shooting at our selves. I have grown rather frustrated with several of the locals and their endless supply of criticism. Everyone has been given the opportunity to join the club and share their thoughts and opinions. Wether you like the club or not... they pay the lease for both Riverside and Steli (approx $1,200). The funds for lease payment comes from membership dues and club event fees.
So if the club eff'ed it self like you suggested... we all would be without 2 area courses.

I really can't fathom all the hostility from the riverside locals towards the club. Without the club you would be trespassing and throwing at propane tanks.

To the quote the chalk board inside the shelter today:

"Only club members can vote. 81 vs. a community. Welcome home Adolf."

Its a blessing to be able to play discgolf in our local parks and it is not a right by any means. I would encourage everyone to become a club member and voice what ever thoughts and ideas you might have. $20 gets you a vote, t-shirt, and piece of mind that you have helped pay for the lease. Its a great deal if you ask me.

[Bossman]

Way to represent Riverside.??

[Subruise]

up until recently, a lease was not necessary. riverside was a purely player maintained course and the locals took pride in that fact. we, the critical locals took a tweeker dumping ground and transformed it into something so good in fact that at that point in time a useless tract of land was attractive enough that the parks dept itself took it for their own. i remember the days when, if it werent for BMX, the park would have been sealed indefinitely. i know its a lot of criticism and some of it is out of hand but consider this: the path before us has been trodden before. i agree, there is no witch hunt necessary, but be careful and listen to those who have been here for more than a year or two. we arent just a bunch of pissed off locals, we understand lots more than people/clubs/politics would believe. lets try and work together, change aint easy and the course(s) arent just for business, they are for recreation.

RV

[Bossman]

Indeed, I would most certainly, agree.

[Greggzart]

I just played Riverside as proposed by John Anderson the other day and loved it. Loved all but the part where my star sidewinder ended up in the river on hole #13. Dayum.

[Ode]

i understand how all the locals feel about the club coming in and changing things. however, there are new developments as well as old problems which need to be addressed.

the wetlands issue could get your park closed. i know some would like to call the parks department's bluff, but this issue cannot be ignored. if we continue to mistreat their wetlands marked area, they can and quite possibly will come in and close the park. they have photos of us mowing which they have been kind enough to not use against us but we can only claim ignorance about their rules once. A layout which avoids the welands areas, which is able to be maintained so that discs are not lost in four foot tall grass in fairways, will only make riverside better and more enjoyable.

we are trying to improve the course for the players, not just locals but disc golfers in this state. riverside is so conjested with layouts that it is a struggle to find your way around. so many non-locals never play this course or play it once and never come back because finding and playing 18 correct holes is too difficult, which is a shame because the course is beautiful. Safety is also a concern at the course. There are so many holes on all the layouts which cross eachother, shoot at the same basket and are blind to eachother that it is dangerous and scary. to say that noone has gotten seriously hurt is not a reason to continue this way. a family just getting into the game of disc golf is not going to take their young children out there because the chance of getting hit by discs while wandering from random hole to random hole is too great when the course is layed out like this. A single 18 hole layout marked well solves these issues. whether that course is blue or green or some new one, riverside needs to move to a single marked course.

I would like to commend Steve Boss and the others who have taken the time to submit layouts. With the comment book that was left at riverside, it seems that many locals are adamant about their views, but only a few actually took the time and put in the effort to draw up a layout that could be used which addressed the issues here. And its sad, because its the locals with the experience and knowledge of riverside that have the potential to do the most/best in this process.

I know that despite these reasons for the changes, people will continue fighting the change. the course is perfect for the locals, rarely conjested and when it is there are so many layouts and holes shooting everywhere they can just shoot around any slow groups and enough differing layouts that you arent forced to play the same holes over and over. but this safari golf will never go away. there is nothing the club can do to prevent safari golf at riverside. but what we can do is improve the course for all disc golf players so that everyone can enjoy the great park that the critical locals have created (as well as the steilacoom players and club who also had a hand in riverside).

I hope that this rivalry between the riverside locals and the club ends soon. it may not under my term or the next, but the locals need to realize we are only here to help. we want whats best for the sport of disc golf. by working together we are that much bigger and that much stronger. we are a players association, an association for and by the players. if you feel the board is not addressing your needs, you vote someone else in. by not being a member and not voting you are ensuring that your specific concerns will not be listened to. but know that myself and im sure the other board members do our best to do whats best for the sport of disc golf, not ourselves or our own narrow views or agendas. now its time to go play in the rain, so maybe ill reply to comments later.

[Mr. Anderson]

Voting for the redesign of Riverside is now taking place at www.piercecountydiscgolf.com Maps can be found earlier in the thread and on the pcdg page. Please vote through the feedback tab and leave name and club #. Thank You

[Bossman]

Voting for the redesign of Riverside is now taking place at www.piercecountydiscgolf.com Maps can be found earlier in the thread and on the pcdg page. Please vote through the feedback tab and leave name and club #. Thank You

I still do not have a club number.

[Jeremy Frieling]

I still do not have a club number.

working on it

[Bossman]

working on it

Thanx Jeremy, I appreciate it.

[pdduubb]

Bossman...

This is one of the Paul(s). We will be there tonight for our Wednesday Rotational round and as luck will have it I have a Disc with your name on it. A redish 2003 State series disc if I recall correctly. I hope to see you there.

[dan mc]

big ups to jeremy for the mowin'(in areas where it's allowed) and the blowin'(teepads) :rockon:

[REDFIVE]

Well said Chase!

Voted.

[Bossman]

Second that. Way to go, Jeremy.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Could someone please bring me up to speed on the current state of the course/baskets? I'm considering a drive down to that area to pick up some tables, but will only make the trip if it's worth playing the course right now.

[EternalNoob]

There is still not a full 18 course. I just make up for the missing holes by adding one here and there. I haven't gotten all the leaves up yet so finding a disc can be rough in places. Sorry! I heard the course design will be finalized on the 15th and then we'll make the course solid again.

[Bossman]

Noob, you are quickly becoming my HERO!!
Thank you for your hard work, you rock.

[dan mc]

As a card carrying pcdgpa member and a fairly regular riverside player i would like some input on the proposed lay outs before i vote. Which layout is the best use of existing teepads and fairways, which layout is the least evasive to the wetlands(most maintainable)? I'm looking for input from the designers of the four courses as well as the the opinions of the locals whether club members or not. So Bossman ,Redfive, Subruise, Mr Anderson, Ode, Jeremy, Guitodd, Puallupean and Noob,etc. What do you think is gonna work and why? I admit I don't know that land as well as some of you but have always loved golfing there and would like to feel like I made a good decision with my vote. Sell me and probabally others on your plan.... We just got over the Dino vs. Patty mudslinging so let's try to stay civil and keep the ball rolling in the right direction.

sorry about the typos ..... but Ninkasi Sleigh'r winter ale packs a punch

[Jeremy Frieling]

Hope you felt infromed about your vote. Sorry that I was unable to get back to you earlier. I was on the area courses most of the weekend.

[Bossman]

Dan, I wish you had made that request sooner. By the time the power came back, it was too late. I think the voting was over. Sorry

[puyallupean]

well i guess the votes have been cast...goin down tomorrow to see if anything new but i will say i like the hole changes that have been made so far. The added length and difficulty have made the few holes changed more enjoyable and i have confidence the decisions made will only help and be for the better-and myself and fellow golfers appreciate the chance for input and discussion that has been involved---im still not a member we will all sign up for the club when the chance arises(again freindly website would help)

[Toby Puttzinski]

Which course proposal won? I'm going to try making it down there next week.

[EternalNoob]

We spent a couple hours sprucing the place up this week...We defined 2 of the holes, cleaned up a major portion of one of them and started clearing for the new stuff. I'm pretty sure the new course was marked today but I didn't get a chance to walk it to see how much of that happened. We're getting close peeps!
I still have lots O' leaf cleanup to do and will be bringing in chips for pathways and stuff to try and keep the mud down. Tons of fun!

[Bossman]

Just came from the "official" site, nothing there, I did go by today and spoke with Mr. Anderson. THE course will be his layout. I'm pretty sure it is 18 holes now. There were maps in the shelter, and tees have signs. Will there be snow this weekend? Maybe I'll see you there.

[EternalNoob]

Just finished getting the new proposed 16 cleaned up. Looks pretty darn good. The leaves are pretty thick around the perimeter of the fairways and around the base of the trees near the basket so aim carefully!;) I think I'll put chips down at the tee box area 'cause it's slick...Probably not 'til next week though. If there is an area y'all just can't stand that needs immediate attention please let either me or Jeremy know.

[Jeremy Frieling]

Its official... John Anderson's course layout has been approved by both the Pierce County Disc Golf Players Association as well as the voting members. John put some maps up in the shelter for reference.

The playable 18 is also marked with sandwich boards (course used for doubles).

We will be moving baskets in the near future out to the area by the bmx course. We are waiting on the bases of the baskets to be welded up and still discussing the beast means to chain them to trees as we are unable to cement them in. Things are coming along nicely. Kelly(Noob) and I have put some hours in clearing/defining fairways. There is still a lot to be done.

With that said we are planning on holding a work party on 12/11-12/12 staring around 10am or so. On saturday I think that we will be playing doubles a little later on in the afternoon to get a little more work done. So please come out a little early and get a little work done before throwing.

[mazza]

Its official... John Anderson's course layout has been approved by both the Pierce County Disc Golf Players Association as well as the voting members. John put some maps up in the shelter for reference.

The playable 18 is also marked with sandwich boards (course used for doubles).

We will be moving baskets in the near future out to the area by the bmx course. We are waiting on the bases of the baskets to be welded up and still discussing the beast means to chain them to trees as we are unable to cement them in. Things are coming along nicely. Kelly(Noob) and I have put some hours in clearing/defining fairways. There is still a lot to be done.

With that said we are planning on holding a work party on 12/11-12/12 staring around 10am or so. On saturday I think that we will be playing doubles a little later on in the afternoon to get a little more work done. So please come out a little early and get a little work done before throwing.

hanging basket would be cool....can i ask y we not able to cement them in

[REDFIVE]

hanging basket would be cool....can i ask y we not able to cement them in

Because they will be in the wetland area.

[Jeremy Frieling]

Just wanted to drop a quick but huge thank you to the brave few that made it out in the cold/wet weather today. I feel that we got some good work done. Got some new baskets installed, formed some new tee pads, moved some baskets, barked some trails, and extended the ghost basket tee area. Mark, Todd, Nasty, John, and Dana... You guys rock.

[pdduubb]

Does anyone have an update as to the current conditions of the course following "Pineapple Express 2010". Do we have a new sediment filled baskets and new location for the bridge?

pw

[Mr. Anderson]

no flooding occurred at Riverside, which is nice

[REDFIVE]

River is still about 12 feet from bank near my place which is less than a mile from the course. No floor this time. Check back in a couple months.

[pdduubb]

Course looked and played great.

Nicely blown greens on a few holes.

River was high and fast but as some has already stated - no flooding, two discs from the group sacrificed to appease TREEJUS.

[Jeremy Frieling]

Just wanted to thank all those who attended the impromptu work party this Sunday to put in the fly mats. You guys rock... Kevin & Dylan, Todd & Seth, Matt, and John. We now have fly mats on 9 and 10. Just waiting for some dry weather to pour cement for the remaining 3 new tee boxes.

[Mikk]

I stopped by and had a quick look around yesterday. Nice job fellas. Thanks to those people who helped keep this course alive!!

[Subruise]

I stopped by and had a quick look around yesterday. Nice job fellas. Thanks to those people who helped keep this course alive!!

the course will NEVER die, go ahead buildf houses offices (fat chance etc), ill still play. never the less, any effort to "help" is "appreciated"

"nice job"

[Bossman]

I'm through playin' nice.

[Snooskie Longhorn]

Oh no. Can't be worse than banning bonfires at the course. Or is it? What's going on?

[mazza]

or using a basket as a bbq

[Jeremy Frieling]

Here is the latest and greatest on the "New" Lahar course at Riverside. Yesterday morning Noob and myself dropped an other 1/2 yard of crushed gravel at the course adding some footing to the boxes for 6,8, and 16. This will have to serve as a temporary remedy until we have some weather that is more conducive to pouring cement. We will also be updating the sandwich board signs with distances in the near future. So far I have measured most of the new holes and here is what I cam up with...
6-342 ft
8-383 ft
9-312 ft
10-236 ft
11-? (oops forgot that one)
12-413 ft
16-434 ft

Thank you all for your patience as we get the new layout established. More updates to come.

[Jeremy Frieling]

I would like send a big thank you to John Anderson, Kyle Crabtree (stair master), and especially Nick Clark for all of his cement expertise for helping out at yet another impromptu work party. Cement was poured in to 6,8, and 16 as well as two pot holes coming into the course (keep an eye out). I checked in of the pads last night and 6 and 16 will need another day or two of completely dry as they don't get much sun. New stairs up to 18s pad will be finished off today. Thanks again guys for coming out and volunteering your time.

[olydiscgolf]

I would like send a big thank you to John Anderson, Kyle Crabtree (stair master), and especially Nick Clark for all of his cement expertise for helping out at yet another impromptu work party. Cement was poured in to 6,8, and 16 as well as two pot holes coming into the course (keep an eye out). I checked in of the pads last night and 6 and 16 will need another day or two of completely dry as they don't get much sun. New stairs up to 18s pad will be finished off today. Thanks again guys for coming out and volunteering your time.

Nice work guys! Im stoked for WA TDG to play the new course and check out all of the hardwork you guys have put in! Thanks for doing what you do!

[sillybizz]

I was down there yesterday and saw the new tee pads, they look awesome, can't wait to go back and play. There are some really good and fun holes out there, thanks for putting in the time and work to install new tee pads. I look forward to going back and checking out all of the work that is being done to make this course great. :)

[Bossman]

You guys keep slapping yourselves on the back for violating a community of golfers and the course they held dear. Meanwhile the same people you criticize for not wanting to be members of your club, will continue to do the real maintenance, like cleaning up downed wood. Wasn't there a work party for that very purpose advertised on your web site? Maybe you should've picked up a stick or two, no problem, we low-life locals will handle it, as always. MY thanks go out to those who continue to represent.

[Subruise]

its always good to see initiative. new things have to happen. that said, nothing "needed to be done" about riverside. its not the land that needs to change, its the attitudes of everybody. Riverside has always been great, and it will continue to be (just with more waiting). I predict this cycle repeating for eons to come, just as it always has. the bringers of this change should feel good about what they are doing, at least they believe in it. Do not, however think that its original or wont be circumvented in another 15 or 20 years. Do what you will, be nice to each other. Remember, it could be worse.

:deadhorse:

RV

[Bossman]

They say " a picture is worth a thousand words". Good, because I'm speechless.

[General Scales]

They say " a picture is worth a thousand words". Good, because I'm speechless.

Umm, wtf? What is that supposed to be? The world's worst mando?

[olydiscgolf]

They say " a picture is worth a thousand words". Good, because I'm speechless.

I would guess that those are the bases for the new tee signs. Dig a hole and insert bucket's. I wouldn't say they are the prettiest things around, but there will be signs!

keep up the good work!