U R LAZY

[discgolfers-R-LAZY]

DISCGOLFERS R LAZY!!!!!!!!!! yes i said it LAZY ,we have said that tdgpa courses are player maintained but that is not true the boardembers do all the work with the help of a few people, this will not continue. this last weekend we rented 300 dollars worth of mowers and trimmers and 6 people showed up to the work party at riverside. we also rented 400 dollars for mowers at steily and less then 10 people showed and helped get ready for the F S O this year. that is a CROCK OF CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that we should pull all the baskets at both courses untill we have more support from the players this may make YOU come and help keep these courses open. I am tired of giving up my time to play so i can make it better for YOU and your lazy friends to play. Maybe we should only bring the baskets out for club events only !!!! and you have to be a club member that donates there time so you can play in that event. I hear players say mark kilmer and his crew do what they want, from what i see they are the ones doing all the work and making disc golf happen around here and all the people DOING NOTHING are busy bad mouthing them !!!!!!! you know who they are so have some balls and say STEP UP OR SHUT UP untill we are a group that can work together we will never make it...... more to come just getting started

[Sam]

Um... maybe Seattle/Tacoma golfers are lazy but we had 25+ people at a work party this last Sunday.

Might want to cast a slightly smaller net, Mr. Kilmer.

[Parks]

I'm sure that threats and name calling will help your cause.

Keep up the good work.

[discgolfers-R-LAZY]

Um... maybe Seattle/Tacoma golfers are lazy but we had 25+ people at a work party this last Sunday.

Might want to cast a slightly smaller net, Mr. Kilmer.

do you think i was talking to anyone other then golfers in this area

[Sam]

Yeah, actually... which is why I responded to your ridiculous little rant.

By the way... can I get you a blankie?

[Parks]

What's the deal with the attached poll?

It seems to be on a different tangent to your post, with no explanation.

[Bullseye]

DISCGOLFERS R LAZY!!!!!!!!!! yes i said it LAZY ,we have said that tdgpa courses are player maintained but that is not true the boardembers do all the work with the help of a few people, this will not continue. this last weekend we rented 300 dollars worth of mowers and trimmers and 6 people showed up to the work party at riverside. we also rented 400 dollars for mowers at steily and less then 10 people showed and helped get ready for the F S O this year. that is a CROCK OF CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that we should pull all the baskets at both courses untill we have more support from the players this may make YOU come and help keep these courses open. I am tired of giving up my time to play so i can make it better for YOU and your lazy friends to play. Maybe we should only bring the baskets out for club events only !!!! and you have to be a club member that donates there time so you can play in that event. I hear players say mark kilmer and his crew do what they want, from what i see they are the ones doing all the work and making disc golf happen around here and all the people DOING NOTHING are busy bad mouthing them !!!!!!! you know who they are so have some balls and say STEP UP OR SHUT UP untill we are a group that can work together we will never make it...... more to come just getting started

Ok, who pee'd in Kilmer's Wheaties?

Seriously though... clubs, courses and dedicated individuals will ALWAYS struggle with the reality that there are people who step up and help, and there are those who do not. Of those who do not help there are a plethora of reasons why not... some people had other plans, some people made it to the last work party, and some people are just users who NEVER put anything back into the sport.

The truth of the matter is that it really doesn't matter why someone doesn't show up. It matters why some people DO show up! As Sam mentioned we had 25 people show up this weekend. Was it because they are all awesome people? Nope, Sam showed up. ;) Was it because some supercool person asked them too? Nope, I asked em. Was it because Stumptown provided lunch? Nope, Jordan cooked it. These people showed up because they care... period. So celebrate those people who do care, and forget about berating those who don't care. For the most part your complaints will fall on deaf ears... with one important exception... when those people who DID show up read posts like this one they start wondering whether they should even bother helping at all... and that is a bad thing.

I help because I want to, not because someone sent me free tickets for a guilt trip.

Bottom line... keep doing your awesome work up there guys. The course looks better than it EVER has, and that fact alone means your time was well spent. Regardless of how much help you had.

I would also suggest this: If you expect NOTHING... you can only be pleasantly surprised.

[Parks]

Quit with the entirely sane posting, please.

I much prefer Sam's method of poking the bear.

[Ol' Bob]

As to the poll: what's your point, Walter? Either they are getting pulled or they are not? Why would the rug pissers, err, a, the basket thieves, give a crap, one way or the other?

[discgolfers-R-LAZY]

Yeah, actually... which is why I responded to your ridiculous little rant.

By the way... can I get you a blankie?

no a little help not a blankie can u read? ridiculous rant? try saying something that will help make players help instead of poking the bear!

[REDFIVE]

Don't knock mark, he's a dork.
The point is that we have a bunch of people that like to complain about everything but don't take the time to find out how to make things happen. They care so much during a casual conversation but could care less during a work party or a meeting. I see marks frustration and understand why he is coming off like a jackass. He isn't a jackass, he is a golfer who has passion to make our sport better. We need more help from players in our area. Not just empty promises. Things are going to change for the better and I thank mark for his passion.

[pdduubb]

While I would agree that we are lazy by nature could it be that we need to do a better job of advertising these work parties by posting them here there and everywhere. I typically play with garbage bag attached to my bag as I pick up garbage as I play because family matters often trump work parties but half of the time I never hear of the work party until I play upon one...

[psychodwarf]

DISCGOLFERS R LAZY!!!!!!!!!! yes i said it LAZY ,we have said that tdgpa courses are player maintained but that is not true the boardembers do all the work with the help of a few people, this will not continue. this last weekend we rented 300 dollars worth of mowers and trimmers and 6 people showed up to the work party at riverside. we also rented 400 dollars for mowers at steily and less then 10 people showed and helped get ready for the F S O this year. that is a CROCK OF CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that we should pull all the baskets at both courses untill we have more support from the players this may make YOU come and help keep these courses open. I am tired of giving up my time to play so i can make it better for YOU and your lazy friends to play. Maybe we should only bring the baskets out for club events only !!!! and you have to be a club member that donates there time so you can play in that event. I hear players say mark kilmer and his crew do what they want, from what i see they are the ones doing all the work and making disc golf happen around here and all the people DOING NOTHING are busy bad mouthing them !!!!!!! you know who they are so have some balls and say STEP UP OR SHUT UP untill we are a group that can work together we will never make it...... more to come just getting started

I'm NOT real fond of your post here .... i mean really did you think this would help your cause ? i don't know what its like in your neck of the woods but the ppl i play golf with DO CARE ABOUT THE COURSE i go to downriver and clean it up on a daily basis I ALSO THROW NIGHT TOURNYS WITH GLOW STICKS AND I CLEAN UP THAT TOO .. so your ranting about discgolfs being lazy makes me think your just a bitter man with a chip on his shoulder :puke:

[Ol' Bob]

I'm so lazy I didn't answer the poll.

[snap7times]

i agree, u are all lazy butts... i say stop mowing, make more people want to help... :)

[sillybizz]

DISCGOLFERS R LAZY!!!!!!!!!! yes i said it LAZY ,we have said that tdgpa courses are player maintained but that is not true the boardembers do all the work with the help of a few people, this will not continue. this last weekend we rented 300 dollars worth of mowers and trimmers and 6 people showed up to the work party at riverside. we also rented 400 dollars for mowers at steily and less then 10 people showed and helped get ready for the F S O this year. that is a CROCK OF CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that we should pull all the baskets at both courses untill we have more support from the players this may make YOU come and help keep these courses open. I am tired of giving up my time to play so i can make it better for YOU and your lazy friends to play. Maybe we should only bring the baskets out for club events only !!!! and you have to be a club member that donates there time so you can play in that event. I hear players say mark kilmer and his crew do what they want, from what i see they are the ones doing all the work and making disc golf happen around here and all the people DOING NOTHING are busy bad mouthing them !!!!!!! you know who they are so have some balls and say STEP UP OR SHUT UP untill we are a group that can work together we will never make it...... more to come just getting started

Why don't you make those courses playable like have one tee pad and one basket per hole instead of the cluster of 35 different layouts, then we'll talk.

[Parks]

Why don't you make those courses playable like have one tee pad and one basket per hole instead of the cluster of 35 different layouts, then we'll talk.

That would need a work party to do, and we're back to square one.

[Jonesy]

for those of us with crappy rollers, bring on the unmowed fairways:rockon:. also why doesn't your parks department mow? are these not on park lands? never been....
________
Ford kansas city assembly plant specifications (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Kansas_City_Assembly_Plant)

[ChUcK]

That was indeed a ridiculous rant. Not a very effective leadership tactic. Doesn't matter though, because he who holds the basket keys is in charge, I suppose.

Damn, I feel bad now for complaining about Herm's mowing at Seatac. I'd take that any day over the free guilt trip Bullseye mentioned.

[Ol' Bob]

Since I'm pretty much the only guy doing anything here this summer, the back holes are a little more like jungle than usual and I'm mowing very little these days too. With all the rain this spring, the few dry days were for mowing. The ground was too wet for me to get back to the trees I'd dropped for firewood, and when the middle of July rolled around, the four sheds here that I fill weren't full. The middle of July is pretty much the cutoff for having the wood bucked and split if it's going to be dry enough to burn in October or December. I've spent the last week or so falling trees that should have been bucked and split two weeks ago.

I just found out that I almost killed the tractor again and will have to give it light duty until I can do a pretty serious tear-down to properly repair it. The mower needs new blades. so even when I mow, it doesn't look as good as it usually does. I put my back out again the day before yesterday, falling trees and moving logs. I worked to aggravate it yesterday by doing more of the same. It looks like I'm going to remain lazy where this free private course is concerned. And yeah, the one thing that makes me take a break is to have someone to huk with.

I must give a big thank you to erp for the two rounds and the help he gave me with my wood chores last weekend.

And now the bad news: I just found out that the Fort George Brewery can't keep up with its orders for Vortex IPA and dock sales of kegs have been suspended. I will have to take a keg of something else today when I go there. Sorry.

[discin'4fun]

I didn't see effective advertising for the work party at Riverside regarding the equipment rentals, etc., but merely a sentence or two on the chalkboard that was not detailed. How about flyers at the teepads next time explaining what EXACTLY is going on if you're going to spend that kind of money. Work parties in the past have been on the basis of bring your own equipment. And those of us regulars with allergies...We love you all who volunteer your efforts, especially good ol' Babbit all these many, many past years. There are many different things to do where everyone can find a niche for helping, including making signs, attending county meetings....

If not for all the bitching pre.... this would be a more heartfelt thanks but.... thank you all anyway for the great work at the course. This ranting is getting to be a bit much!! Let's draw people in, not shun them away!!!!

[sillybizz]

DISCGOLFERS R LAZY!!!!!!!!!! yes i said it LAZY

That is offensive sir. I think that the Mods should have a meeting about you getting a warning as you just personally attacked not only everyone on this site but every disc golfer everywhere. I have put in many hours and hundreds of dollars of my own money to help maintain courses. Terrace Creek and Twin Rivers especially!

we have said that tdgpa courses are player maintained but that is not true the boardembers do all the work with the help of a few people, this will not continue. this last weekend we rented 300 dollars worth of mowers and trimmers and 6 people showed up to the work party at riverside. we also rented 400 dollars for mowers at steily and less then 10 people showed and helped get ready for the F S O this year.

There is nothing mentioning of these work parties on this site so I don't feel bad for you. If you want people to show up for work parties tell people about them! Or you could offer something like free pizza and soda provided by club money for anyone who shows up and works; I guarantee this gets more people out working!

I think that we should pull all the baskets at both courses untill we have more support from the players this may make YOU come and help keep these courses open. I am tired of giving up my time to play so i can make it better for YOU and your lazy friends to play. Maybe we should only bring the baskets out for club events only !!!! and you have to be a club member that donates there time so you can play in that event. I hear players say mark kilmer and his crew do what they want, from what i see they are the ones doing all the work and making disc golf happen around here and all the people DOING NOTHING are busy bad mouthing them !!!!!!! you know who they are so have some balls and say STEP UP OR SHUT UP untill we are a group that can work together we will never make it...... more to come just getting started

This is the most ridiculous part of your little rant. People would just go play at Yauger or White River if you pulled the baskets. Besides I don't think pulling baskets is ever a good thing as the thieves obviously don't care about the course and you would only be hurting honest people who love disc golf; this doesn't seem like it would help the sport. You say you want to be a group that works together but then you alienate people because they aren't doing what you want them to do and call everyone lazy. Then you say that "Mark Kilmer and his crew" (Which sounds cliquey) should be able to do whatever they want? Seems like a good plan to unite and get people caring, let me know how that works out for you.

[Mikk]

Whiners in the grass??

[bigal]

One can always catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar.

:bowing:Big Al :bowing:

[Carie CPink]

It's easy to pile on this guy for venting and improperly composing a critique of the lack of volunteering in the DG community. However, the essence of his rant has been overlooked: there are a lot of golfers who simply do not give back.

Simple.

While it is easier to attract volunteers with incentives and other "feel good" blowing smoke up the wazzu, there are a lot of people who are quick to criticize (and not critically) and refuse help out. People burn out, get cynical and reach a breaking point, like this dude.

I don't know the history of this course, the "work parties" and advertising for these events, so I can't completely have this guy's back. But, we should all look inward and outward and give thanks where thanks should be given. A heartfelt thank you goes miles...and a helping hand at a work party or tournament is invaluable.

[Sean Phillips]

Ok, who pee'd in Kilmer's Wheaties?

Seriously though... clubs, courses and dedicated individuals will ALWAYS struggle with the reality that there are people who step up and help, and there are those who do not. Of those who do not help there are a plethora of reasons why not... some people had other plans, some people made it to the last work party, and some people are just users who NEVER put anything back into the sport.

The truth of the matter is that it really doesn't matter why someone doesn't show up. It matters why some people DO show up! As Sam mentioned we had 25 people show up this weekend. Was it because they are all awesome people? Nope, Sam showed up. ;) Was it because some supercool person asked them too? Nope, I asked em. Was it because Stumptown provided lunch? Nope, Jordan cooked it. These people showed up because they care... period. So celebrate those people who do care, and forget about berating those who don't care. For the most part your complaints will fall on deaf ears... with one important exception... when those people who DID show up read posts like this one they start wondering whether they should even bother helping at all... and that is a bad thing.

I help because I want to, not because someone sent me free tickets for a guilt trip.

Bottom line... keep doing your awesome work up there guys. The course looks better than it EVER has, and that fact alone means your time was well spent. Regardless of how much help you had.

I would also suggest this: If you expect NOTHING... you can only be pleasantly surprised.

:trophy: Well typed Mr. Hagerty

I only make it to a few work parties a year. Am I lazy :confused:

[Moedawg]

It's easy to pile on this guy for venting and improperly composing a critique of the lack of volunteering in the DG community. However, the essence of his rant has been overlooked: there are a lot of golfers who simply do not give back.


Despite the number of great people i have met through the sport, there are far more people who just suck. It is unfortunate that someone who has contributed so much to the game has to come on here and vent his frustration. Though i don't blame him. There are people who continue to organize work parties and work on courses. It really just depends what course you go too. I went to a "work party" once at twin rivers a while back and it was just me, a weed wacker, and a nasty thunderstorm. Eventually 2 people showed up. We managed to get alot done and that course needs it badly as any. Not everyone is going to show up all the time. Most disc golfers still can't grasp the concept of pack it in and pack it out. Expecting any more than that is expecting far too much. It is disc golf after all.:drool:

[sillybizz]

Despite the number of great people i have met through the sport, there are far more people who just suck. It is unfortunate that someone who has contributed so much to the game has to come on here and vent his frustration. Though i don't blame him. There are people who continue to organize work parties and work on courses. It really just depends what course you go too. I went to a "work party" once at twin rivers a while back and it was just me, a weed wacker, and a nasty thunderstorm. Eventually 2 people showed up. We managed to get alot done and that course needs it badly as any. Not everyone is going to show up all the time. Most disc golfers still can't grasp the concept of pack it in and pack it out. Expecting any more than that is expecting far too much. It is disc golf after all.:drool:

Dangit Steve haven't I taught you anything? You're supposed to argue back and forth and disagree with everyone no matter what they say! :smash: :wink2:

[emmarose]

It's easy to pile on this guy for venting and improperly composing a critique of the lack of volunteering in the DG community. However, the essence of his rant has been overlooked: there are a lot of golfers who simply do not give back.

Simple.

While it is easier to attract volunteers with incentives and other "feel good" blowing smoke up the wazzu, there are a lot of people who are quick to criticize (and not critically) and refuse help out. People burn out, get cynical and reach a breaking point, like this dude.

I don't know the history of this course, the "work parties" and advertising for these events, so I can't completely have this guy's back. But, we should all look inward and outward and give thanks where thanks should be given. A heartfelt thank you goes miles...and a helping hand at a work party or tournament is invaluable.

really well thought out, carie... i hope this gives perspective to both the initiator of this thread and the folks who jumped on his butt about his tone (i was almost one of them, but then realized 1. not so much my business and 2. ummmm... he's actually got a good point).

also, ditto, sean philips... i appreciated hagerty's post as well...

i do hope this conversation inspires dg'ers all over to get more involved and understand how these courses depend upon us to keep them in shape... sometimes it is simply difficult to step out of your comfort zone and go to a work party... i know this kept me from a some of the wp's at milo... i honestly felt like, oh, i'm just a girl and i don't know anything about trail building and air compressors and i don't know any of those people anyway and i don't want to go 'cause i'm too shy and nervous... which probably is a silly way to feel... i know plenty about course maintenance from working on our little hillbilly course in the woods with it's monster blackberry patches and (i am not exaggerating) 10 foot high stinging nettles... but, point is, i wasn't comfortable going somewhere i was unfamiliar with to work with a bunch of folk i didn't know... now i know people and i will certainly step up and do my part...

... and once you've done your fair share of course maintenance, you learn a very valuable lesson... which is that nothing compares to that delicious sense of spaghetti-armed satisfaction when you get out there on the course to play and you can say, "i mowed that fairway! i weed whacked that nasty blackberry bunker! i hand sawed down that damn alder tree growing into my flight path even tho i really should have waited for someone with a chainsaw, 'cause it would have taken them less than a minute and it took me almost a half hour, but i did it! i did it and it's awesome!" it is golden...

peace threw disc golf,
emmarose

[snap7times]

Work Parties are great, but with 99 percent of the disc golfers out there not picking up garbage as they play and put it in garbage cans on or around the courses, we will continue to bicker about laziness and who does this or that... as for the riverside situation, try to have a well advertised work party and a meeting to see what locals are thinking etc.... And I agree, make the place 2 or 3 courses and make it clear.

[Matt B.]

That was indeed a ridiculous rant. Not a very effective leadership tactic. Doesn't matter though, because he who holds the basket keys is in charge, I suppose.

Damn, I feel bad now for complaining about Herm's mowing at Seatac. I'd take that any day over the free guilt trip Bullseye mentioned.

There's three potential audiences for a post like that.

Group A: people who come and came to work parties.
Group B: people who will never for any reason come to a work party, don't know about this or other disc golf sites, get no disc golf emails, and don't give a crap about the course, the club, or the scene.
Group C: people who could, would, and might come to a work party.

The problem with this kind of post or e-mail is that it effectively decreases the chances of getting people to show up.

Group A already agrees with the basic premise but still feels the negativity and anger and as pointed out, may actually feel like "hey, what about me and what I did"?

Group B is totally unreachable, leaves trash on the course, vandalizes the course, doesn't play tournaments or weekly events and has no social connection to the "disc golf community" in any meaningful way. They think you and your disc golf bag are "queer" and they want their unleashed pit bull to bite you.

Group C is the intended target of this kind of rant. For a myriad of reasons they haven't or don't come to work parties. They may actually be lazy. They may have work schedules, family commitments, or other things preventing them from coming. They may be new to the scene and a little shy of getting involved. They may be at a place in life where they just don't have the time in general, even though they can find the time to play some rounds or tournaments - big surprise, they want to recreate and have fun in those brief hours they can get free. Although they may not come to work parties, they may well contribute in other ways: club meetings, tournament sponsorships or other donations, etc.

When Group C reads this kind of post they are decidedly NOT inspired to show up and help. Why? Well, the person writing the rant who has been busting their ass, working hard, and making it possible for them to play these courses and tournaments is very clearly angry with them! They are being told that they do not deserve to be able to play the course, and that in fact the angry person might just shut the course down to punish everyone because of them. Would this inspire you to show up and face the anger and disappointment? Or would you have an equally negative reaction to the angry rant? How would you feel when you saw this person out at the course - ready to sign up and help, or guilty, unwelcome and bummed?

It's not about what's right, and what people should do, it's about basic human psychology and feelings. No one is going to react positively to a big angry guilt trip, threats to shut down courses, or insults. Period.

Can you tell I've been in Group C for a while now? The old maxim about honey and vinegar does apply. The frustration of those who are taking the lead on all the work is very real and very understandable. But still, if you really want more people to show up and help this is not a great way to do it even if it does feel good to vent. In the long run this will work against you and cause even more divisions and hard feelings in the community.

[Kris C]

I agree with Matt. I have a hard time getting away for a work party, but EVERY time I play (mostly Farragut) I bring bags to pick up trash along the way. Do I need to show up for an organized work party to contribute? Is my contribution less because I didn't show up when they had chippers and other equipment getting ready for the spring tournament? I don't think so. Since I almost always play alone, nobody knows that I'm helping in my small way. I know and that's enough for me, but then Lazy's OP sh*ts on everyone who can't show up for a work party.

[REDFIVE]

I spoke with mark before this rant and the main thing he is tired of is getting empty promises. The work party at riverside wouldn't have been such a big deal but when you add having six baskets stolen the night before there is a bit of anger pointed in the wrong direction. The riverside work party wasn't advertised as well as it could have but there were 40 people at the dubs the Tuesday before that heard the word. There were 15 people that promised to help and were stoked to come down. But when it came down to it nobody showed up. There were, I think, 6 people and 3 of them weren't even golfers.

Riverside has been looked at as a private piece of land by most of the old school locals for quite some time. They feel the course is theirs because they play there and only there every day. The shunning of the club has been going on for too long. The club is why the course is there but most of these guys think the club is out to get them and steal their money to put into steilly. They would complain about everything and do nothing that involved the club. Complaints upon deaf ears. There are some really good people that care a lot about riverside but fail to see that if they become members and convince like minded folk to join as well they can eventually get what they want. Mark has tried to work with these people with no success. There have been a few guys that have stepped up from riverside to do the right thing and it is about time. it is sad to say but the close minded old folks will be left behind if they don't move on. We must do what is best for the course and whining is not it. Riverside is a great piece of land that is not being used to its full potential. Good things are to come.

Riverside local since 2001.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Mark was clearly venting and could have used more tact and a bit less 'attack', but I agree with those that didn't take his statements personally and were able to read between the lines so to speak. Sure the delivery of his message could have been more diplomatic, but there's no reason to get all butt-hurt over it and respond with negativity. It has actually sparked up a fairly passionate discussion about a relevant topic... good on those of you that used some constructive criticism, didn't personalize it (because he wasn't speaking to you directly sillybiz, psychodwarf, or Sam), and instead placed the DISCussion back on the fairway.

[sillybizz]

I understand the frustration but coming on here and calling people names and saying that we are lazy? Not digging it, not supporting it.

[REDFIVE]

I understand the frustration but coming on here and calling people names and saying that we are lazy? Not digging it, not supporting it.

He wasnt talking about you. quit being silly.

[sillybizz]

He wasnt talking about you. quit being silly.

Alright. :bowing: U DA MAN

[SPIDER-DAN]

there's three potential audiences for a post like that.


Group c is the intended target of this kind of rant. For a myriad of reasons they haven't or don't come to work parties. They may actually be lazy. They may have work schedules, family commitments, or other things preventing them from coming. They may be new to the scene and a little shy of getting involved. They may be at a place in life where they just don't have the time in general, even though they can find the time to play some rounds or tournaments - big surprise, they want to recreate and have fun in those brief hours they can get free. Although they may not come to work parties, they may well contribute in other ways: Club meetings, tournament sponsorships or other donations, etc.

When group c reads this kind of post they are decidedly not inspired to show up and help. Why? Well, the person writing the rant who has been busting their ass, working hard, and making it possible for them to play these courses and tournaments is very clearly angry with them! They are being told that they do not deserve to be able to play the course, and that in fact the angry person might just shut the course down to punish everyone because of them. Would this inspire you to show up and face the anger and disappointment? Or would you have an equally negative reaction to the angry rant? How would you feel when you saw this person out at the course - ready to sign up and help, or guilty, unwelcome and bummed?

It's not about what's right, and what people should do, it's about basic human psychology and feelings. No one is going to react positively to a big angry guilt trip, threats to shut down courses, or insults. Period.

Can you tell i've been in group c for a while now? The old maxim about honey and vinegar does apply. The frustration of those who are taking the lead on all the work is very real and very understandable. But still, if you really want more people to show up and help this is not a great way to do it even if it does feel good to vent. In the long run this will work against you and cause even more divisions and hard feelings in the community.

i fall into group c and i totally agree with matt's post. There are circumstances you may not understand. I do not get much time to play and when i do i make the most of it and that time is spent playing. I do have a job that is five days a week and rarely do i make it out to a weekday doubles or ace pot. When i do it is because i made a compromise with my wife and family and that means i do not and will not play that weekend. If i play in a tournament that is two days that means somewhere along the line i will not play a weekend at all.........it is for the family. I know some if not most of you do not fall into the same situation as me, but this is just one of many that i hope some of you understand why we do not make it to work parties. Ive decided to give back in other ways and that is finacial support the best way i can.

I truly hope you are not angry with me its just that when i play i am away from my family and that is something my wife as gotten use to, but to spent that time weed wacking and mowing would not be justified especailly when i got my own week wacking and mowing to do at home. I know this may sound selfish or contradicting, but i have to live with my wife and i love being married and i will not jepordize that for nothing.

[Parks]

I truly hope you are not angry with me its just that when i play i am away from my family and that is something my wife as gotten use to, but to spent that time weed wacking and mowing would not be justified especailly when i got my own week wacking and mowing to do at home.

Have you ever considered making disc golf something that is NOT away from your family?

Get your kids involved, and your wife if possible.

The people around here that have families and play disc golf bring them to the course and make it a positive experience for everyone.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Dan you contribute in other ways... you support the club by playing events that help fund the club, and just a few weeks back you were selling a bunch of collector discs to raise funds designated to help replace the baskets at Steily... a very generous contribution!!:yay:

[REDFIVE]

Alright. :bowing: U DA MAN

That was easier than expected. With all the work you tried to do at terrace and are doing in arlington there is no way you could fall in the lazy catagory. Thank you for that.

Dan donated 20 discs and 20 minis to the juniors clinic, sponsors every event he can, and even paid for a tee pad at riverside. That is much better than cutting some grass in my opinion. Thank you!

[LJ Jubner]

I too have felt the frustration of lazy players. I am out there busting my ass to make it better for all and I ask someone to drag bag a trash 200 yds and they look at me like I am form another planet. ( Damn third eye).

Anyway Mark's frustration comes from leading with his heart and then having that effort poo pood upon. Although Steili is broken in course places like (The Tac and Twin Rivers are most certainly not) does require effort to keep it that way. Both Moe and Siilly stated they each have experienced the one player work party (maybe keeping the party a secret is not a good idea) but it's been my experience that more players will just go somewhere else to play then expose themselves to the ridicule of the workers.

It has also been my experience that players are keen to participate if asked and there is some sort of incentive for their participation. Silver Lake had 22 people show to assemble baskets and finish tees. Oh and some ace hole too. Same can be said about the recent Stump party at SS because they saw the fruits of their labor instantly.

As far as other commitments go like life, family, job etc is kind of a cop out. We all know that at any given time each of us is busy but we seem to make time to do other things, Why can't DG not be one of them? We can all find time to play but not to many of us make the time to help. Maybe there should be one Weekend day a month that each course closes for work parties (publicized Just like ace pots) for scheduled maintenance.

[Skookum]

World Biggest Disc Golf Workparty?

[LJ Jubner]

World Biggest Disc Golf Workparty?

Monthly or Quartely

[Skookum]

I was thinking yearly hence my reference to World Biggest Disc Golf Weekend.

What if all the clubs make a big deal about it? One day a year, make it a big party, close every course on the same day for maintenance. Cook food, have some prizes make it fun. This may draw folks into other aspects of the sport they were not as comfortable or familiar with. This one day a year could lead to better support for those smaller work parties held throughout the year.

Held in late spring to clean up from winter, plan your new holes, or teepads for that day. Something to think about...could be a great way to get connected/reconnected to the folk who don't show up to every/any club meetings.

[SPIDER-DAN]

have you ever considered making disc golf something that is not away from your family?

Get your kids involved, and your wife if possible.

The people around here that have families and play disc golf bring them to the course and make it a positive experience for everyone.

that would be awesome if my wife and family was more involved, but it is just not their cup of tea and i will not push that issue more than i have already. My boys and even my niece like playing, but they are teenagers and apparently have more important things to do than play disc golf. I know, its shocking........ How can you possibly have more important things to do than play disc golf..........im just as stunned.

I do understand why mark may be upset and support him for sure. Mark and i are good friends and if i have ever had a issue or question about what the club was doing i would ask him and he would explain why. Most of time if not all i would realize i was quick to judge and i learn from that.

Maybe jub has a really good idea about closing the park for a scheduled maintenance day or something along those lines.

[REDFIVE]

I was thinking yearly hence my reference to World Biggest Disc Golf Weekend.

What if all the clubs make a big deal about it? One day a year, make it a big party, close every course on the same day for maintenance. Cook food, have some prizes make it fun. This may draw folks into other aspects of the sport they were not as comfortable or familiar with. This one day a year could lead to better support for those smaller work parties held throughout the year.

Held in late spring to clean up from winter, plan your new holes, or teepads for that day. Something to think about...could be a great way to get connected/reconnected to the folk who don't show up to every/any club meetings.

You are a smart man.

[SPIDER-DAN]

YEAH I AGREE...........WAY TO GO SNOOKUM............I MEAN SKOOKUM. :biggrin2:

SEE YA AUGUST 15TH FOR MCDG SERIES #5........IF YOU ALL ARE NOT AT THE SHELTON SPRINGS FOR THIS YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOO LAME.

[Ol' Bob]

Oh no, now you've done it! You've made Spidie go back to all caps!

[emmarose]

I was thinking yearly hence my reference to World Biggest Disc Golf Weekend.

What if all the clubs make a big deal about it? One day a year, make it a big party, close every course on the same day for maintenance. Cook food, have some prizes make it fun. This may draw folks into other aspects of the sport they were not as comfortable or familiar with. This one day a year could lead to better support for those smaller work parties held throughout the year.

Held in late spring to clean up from winter, plan your new holes, or teepads for that day. Something to think about...could be a great way to get connected/reconnected to the folk who don't show up to every/any club meetings.

this is a very very cool idea... takes a village to clean up all the golf courses in the whole world! i like the way your brain works.

peace,
em

[discin'4fun]

This is getting way out of control. The longer we don't communicate, the less civil things get. The lease for Riverside was obtained by Steilly a while back which is awesome because it assures that Riverside will not be pulled by the County. We are ALL happy to hear this news, newbies and "oldies" alike. I hope all involved will be able to put all distress from the past behind ourselves and move forward in a positive, and maybe even professional, fashion. Everyone I know are willing to make it happen that these baskets get replaced and stay in place. Who is the speaker for Steilly to start this reconciliation? Some aren't sure who is President, or whatever title it may be. You know who to contact and I think this is a good time to do it....too bad it had to wait this long, and that it has come about because of a tragedy to the course.

By the way....the reason for so many courses is that the original four--red, blue, orange, green, were placed when only a handful of golfers were playing when the course was cleared and designed by the players. Since then, more golfers have become regulars, playing all day every day of the week, and have hence created their own course designs to avoid boredom. Really, who wants to birdie or ace the same hole every time, right!? :yawn:

Seriously, though, in my opinion anger has taken the better of some of us involved in the politics altogether which has escalated to a level not intended. Hooray for saving the park!!! Let's keep up the good work--together.


I spoke with mark before this rant and the main thing he is tired of is getting empty promises. The work party at riverside wouldn't have been such a big deal but when you add having six baskets stolen the night before there is a bit of anger pointed in the wrong direction. The riverside work party wasn't advertised as well as it could have but there were 40 people at the dubs the Tuesday before that heard the word. There were 15 people that promised to help and were stoked to come down. But when it came down to it nobody showed up. There were, I think, 6 people and 3 of them weren't even golfers.

Riverside has been looked at as a private piece of land by most of the old school locals for quite some time. They feel the course is theirs because they play there and only there every day. The shunning of the club has been going on for too long. The club is why the course is there but most of these guys think the club is out to get them and steal their money to put into steilly. They would complain about everything and do nothing that involved the club. Complaints upon deaf ears. There are some really good people that care a lot about riverside but fail to see that if they become members and convince like minded folk to join as well they can eventually get what they want. Mark has tried to work with these people with no success. There have been a few guys that have stepped up from riverside to do the right thing and it is about time. it is sad to say but the close minded old folks will be left behind if they don't move on. We must do what is best for the course and whining is not it. Riverside is a great piece of land that is not being used to its full potential. Good things are to come.

Riverside local since 2001.

[Parks]

I was thinking yearly hence my reference to World Biggest Disc Golf Weekend.

What if all the clubs make a big deal about it? One day a year, make it a big party, close every course on the same day for maintenance. Cook food, have some prizes make it fun. This may draw folks into other aspects of the sport they were not as comfortable or familiar with. This one day a year could lead to better support for those smaller work parties held throughout the year.

Held in late spring to clean up from winter, plan your new holes, or teepads for that day. Something to think about...could be a great way to get connected/reconnected to the folk who don't show up to every/any club meetings.

I agree, this is a great idea.

Is there any person or group with the clout to organize something like this?

[Ol' Bob]

I ain't too shurr 'bout these here Communistical idears ahm hearin'.

[KG_MCDGC]

I agree, this is a great idea.Is there any person or group with the clout to organize something like this?

Yes! Another great idea from this braniac, way to see big picture Morgan.

I can say that this premise will be a topic of discussion at the next MCDG meeting. It's too good of an idea to not consider. I think once a few groups build a consensus on a date(s) then the rest should fall into place. Also, getting the official backing of our respective PDGA State reps can only help.

Bravo!

[psychodwarf]

I too have felt the frustration of lazy players. I am out there busting my ass to make it better for all and I ask someone to drag bag a trash 200 yds and they look at me like I am form another planet. ( Damn third eye).

Anyway Mark's frustration comes from leading with his heart and then having that effort poo pood upon. Although Steili is broken in course places like (The Tac and Twin Rivers are most certainly not) does require effort to keep it that way. Both Moe and Siilly stated they each have experienced the one player work party (maybe keeping the party a secret is not a good idea) but it's been my experience that more players will just go somewhere else to play then expose themselves to the ridicule of the workers.

It has also been my experience that players are keen to participate if asked and there is some sort of incentive for their participation. Silver Lake had 22 people show to assemble baskets and finish tees. Oh and some ace hole too. Same can be said about the recent Stump party at SS because they saw the fruits of their labor instantly.

As far as other commitments go like life, family, job etc is kind of a cop out. We all know that at any given time each of us is busy but we seem to make time to do other things, Why can't DG not be one of them? We can all find time to play but not to many of us make the time to help. Maybe there should be one Weekend day a month that each course closes for work parties (publicized Just like ace pots) for scheduled maintenance.:yay::yay:

i am all for this idea !!:cheers: i got the bbq and the steaks whos got the beer ??:cheers:

[Flatroc]

This issue will go on as long as the roc's versus buzzz thing.
There will always be folks who have the time and all else it takes to work on the course.
Some don't have that luxury, but would if they could.
Then there are some who just want to play, and if the course is weedy, they go elsewhere.
Do what you can when you can and don't forget next year all the tall grass and weeds will be back again, so we can do it over and over and over, again and again and again.
KILMER!!!!!!
I haven't seen you at Whistlers in a while.

[JR Stengele]

i fall into group c and i totally agree with matt's post. There are circumstances you may not understand. I do not get much time to play and when i do i make the most of it and that time is spent playing. I do have a job that is five days a week and rarely do i make it out to a weekday doubles or ace pot. When i do it is because i made a compromise with my wife and family and that means i do not and will not play that weekend. If i play in a tournament that is two days that means somewhere along the line i will not play a weekend at all.........it is for the family. I know some if not most of you do not fall into the same situation as me, but this is just one of many that i hope some of you understand why we do not make it to work parties. Ive decided to give back in other ways and that is finacial support the best way i can.

I truly hope you are not angry with me its just that when i play i am away from my family and that is something my wife as gotten use to, but to spent that time weed wacking and mowing would not be justified especailly when i got my own week wacking and mowing to do at home. I know this may sound selfish or contradicting, but i have to live with my wife and i love being married and i will not jepordize that for nothing.


Completely agree. I think it is important to donate time when you can but with a family...they always come first and you must do what you can to take care of them first. However, through financial support, periodically helping at a work party, or joininng the local clubs, showing support for all those out there when you can't be there is key. Which I know you already do Dan.

[JR Stengele]

I too have felt the frustration of lazy players. I am out there busting my ass to make it better for all and I ask someone to drag bag a trash 200 yds and they look at me like I am form another planet. ( Damn third eye).

Anyway Mark's frustration comes from leading with his heart and then having that effort poo pood upon. Although Steili is broken in course places like (The Tac and Twin Rivers are most certainly not) does require effort to keep it that way. Both Moe and Siilly stated they each have experienced the one player work party (maybe keeping the party a secret is not a good idea) but it's been my experience that more players will just go somewhere else to play then expose themselves to the ridicule of the workers.

It has also been my experience that players are keen to participate if asked and there is some sort of incentive for their participation. Silver Lake had 22 people show to assemble baskets and finish tees. Oh and some ace hole too. Same can be said about the recent Stump party at SS because they saw the fruits of their labor instantly.

As far as other commitments go like life, family, job etc is kind of a cop out. We all know that at any given time each of us is busy but we seem to make time to do other things, Why can't DG not be one of them? We can all find time to play but not to many of us make the time to help. Maybe there should be one Weekend day a month that each course closes for work parties (publicized Just like ace pots) for scheduled maintenance.

That is Mr. Acehole to you Jub.:dancing:

[Ol' Bob]

Well, I just lazily punched in a tractor trail to the new 15th tee and finally got it built up with five tractor buckets of good packing, well draining, subsoil. I want to get a better lefty line worked out for that hole, but I'm going to wait for some lefties to volunteer. Now I'm going back to drag out some fallen trees near that trail that are still good enough to make firewood. (Land of many uses.)

[3 Fingers]

Well, I just lazily punched in a tractor trail to the new 15th tee and finally got it built up with five tractor buckets of good packing, well draining, subsoil. I want to get a better lefty line worked out for that hole, but I'm going to wait for some lefties to volunteer. Now I'm going back to drag out some fallen trees near that trail that are still good enough to make firewood. (Land of many uses.)

Way to get your LAZZZY on Bob !!!

[Toby Puttzinski]

Well, I just lazily punched in a tractor trail to the new 15th tee and finally got it built up with five tractor buckets of good packing, well draining, subsoil. I want to get a better lefty line worked out for that hole, but I'm going to wait for some lefties to volunteer. Now I'm going back to drag out some fallen trees near that trail that are still good enough to make firewood. (Land of many uses.)

If they'd just advertise more work parties to create 'lefty lines' and hold 'lefty friendly teepad parties' I would probably find a way to make it to more of these things...
Actually, I've pitched in quite a bit at NP, but I haven't been able to make it to many 'organized' work parties. I don't have many free weekends, and the few of those that I'm able to commit to disc golf usually include a road trip or tournament of some sort, so I'm one of those that tries to find other ways to contribute>> picked up lots of trash today out at Terrace... most of the time others in the group will follow suit and pick up trash as well.

[Ol' Bob]

Well, I didn't make it back for that firewood. I had a brush puller ordered and it got here today. I'm going to pull out all those little alder trees that have taken over the greenhouse area on hole 10. I just had to go try it out. This is what it looks like:
http://www.brushgrubber.com/images/product_home_tn/img_bg01_original_brush_grubber.jpg

Well anyway, I pulled out a few trees and it worked great. While I was doing that, I noticed that the inside of my front left wheel was getting coated with gear oil. So, the situation now is the tractor is up on jack stands with the left swivel joint torn apart. The bigger, outside, wheel bearing's cage ruptured and chunks of it ripped out the seal. By the time I got it apart and cleaned up, it was 5:15 and all the industrial parts places were closed for the weekend. What makes a ball bearing cage fail? This is the second one to do that (same bearing).

I've searched for bearing cage failure causes and nothing works for this low RPM application that I've been able to find. The riveted cage just gives up while submerged under gear oil. Everything else about the bearing looks good. Its 8 balls and the inner and outer races are fine to all appearances. If I could rivet in a new cage, I believe it would be fine.

Well, now I'm pretty much consigned to enforced laziness for the next few days.

[COV45]

There are some of us that rarely hear about work parties until the day of or the time has already past. If there was as much talk about it as Ace Pots and Tournaments then I'm sure the help would increase. Consistency in posting the same bright colored signs a week or two ahead of time might help, we'll catch on when we see the signs posted, "A work party is in the works!". I enjoy the courses and have only done one work party, but would be willing to do more as I'm sure many more out there would like to do their part too! If posting signs doesn't appeal to you, drop me an email at ccovington4169@aol.com and let me know when you want to have a work party and I will see to it that they get made up, posted, as well as removed.

[ROC]

no, U R Lazy

[rockhound]

Look, it seems simple, just ask the people who put in the time and do a good job, don,t be asking just anyone to help out, believe me i know,good workers are hard to find.

[sillybizz]

I'm so sick of this thread...

[erp]

If you're sick and tired, you might be catching the "golfer laze"

I'm so sick of this thread...

[REDFIVE]

I'm so sick of this thread...

me too.

[Ol' Bob]

I'm so sick of this thread...

If you were just a little lazier, you might not feel like clicking on it.

(Ha ha, made you look!)