Good thing they are 400 miles apart

[LJ Jubner]

Good thing they are 400 miles apart

I believe the point was not the exact distance between events but the fact that POTENTIAL WA Series participants from East of the Mountains are much more likely to head even farther East (It's only 180 miles from Spokane/Missoula VS the 280 across the state) and support a series that more reflects the entire states demographic then just within 60 miles of Stelli.

Interesting couple of points
First: INWS series dates were set (well except final) mid Feb.
and

Second:Two of the WA Series steering committee members are in fact the INWS CO Coordinators. So the POTENTIAL conflict of dates was well know in that circle then. Clearly the westies got there way. imnsho

This again broaches the question: Why allow such a big hole (June 7th-July 3rd) in The WA Series and then stuff 4 sanctioned events, (3 West, 1 East [2 WA Series, 1 INWS] and one non SERIES ) in a 5 week period?

[GettinBetter]

you just can't let it go can you, lol

im sure this must be frustrating, but....

in the end these two event are so far apart it really doesn't matter.

i think most "westies" really care about the washington series, and most inlanders care about, well the inland series.

[LJ Jubner]

you just can't let it go can you, lol

im sure this must be frustrating, but....

Clearly others are asking the same question!

in the end these two event are so far apart it really doesn't matter.

But it is a symptom of a growing issue

i think most "westies" really care about the washington series, and most inlanders care about, well the inland series.

That's my point:
Instead of COMPEETING for players we should be coordinating for them.

This discussion does not even (but should) include OR. events as well

[Tim]

This again broaches the question: Why allow such a big hole (June 7th-July 3rd) in The WA Series and then stuff 4 sanctioned events, (3 West, 1 East [2 WA Series, 1 INWS] and one non SERIES ) in a 5 week period?

You know TD's have a life away from DG

...

[LJ Jubner]

Good point Tim

So maybe the weekend should be the objective more than the person running it.

ie Why Stelli is not in the series.
Either no one could run it on it's traditional weekend(s) or the TD could only run it on certain weekends.

This brings up an entirely different set of questions
When an Event is scheduled is it
A at the TD's convenience (My personal belief)
B at the Club's convenience
C at the players convenience

[REDFIVE]

We now have a WA state series which is more than we had around this time last year. With the number of courses and players we have in the area we are going to have "conflicts". But is a choice really a conflict? If I cared so much about competing in a series event I would drive an extra 100 miles to do so. If I wanted to play in an awesome tourney that is on the same day a series event and is closer to home, I would do that. It is my decision and it is the decision of every golfer in and around our state what tourney or series they want to play. If this is a problem I fail to see how it is a negative. Yes the scheduling could have been better but something is better than nothing. I am greatful for the people that put in the time to help move our series forward. Thank you all for looking to the future. I am sure that what has been learned from this year will be applied to next.

[JR Stengele]

We now have a WA state series which is more than we had around this time last year. With the number of courses and players we have in the area we are going to have "conflicts". But is a choice really a conflict? If I cared so much about competing in a series event I would drive an extra 100 miles to do so. If I wanted to play in an awesome tourney that is on the same day a series event and is closer to home, I would do that. It is my decision and it is the decision of every golfer in and around our state what tourney or series they want to play. If this is a problem I fail to see how it is a negative. Yes the scheduling could have been better but something is better than nothing. I am greatful for the people that put in the time to help move our series forward. Thank you all for looking to the future. I am sure that what has been learned from this year will be applied to next.

Well put. I totally agree, as multiple options are a + not a - in my mind.:dancing:

[LJ Jubner]

We now have a WA state series which is more than we had around this time last year. With the number of courses and players we have in the area we are going to have "conflicts". But is a choice really a conflict? If I cared so much about competing in a series event I would drive an extra 100 miles to do so. If I wanted to play in an awesome tourney that is on the same day a series event and is closer to home, I would do that. It is my decision and it is the decision of every golfer in and around our state what tourney or series they want to play. If this is a problem I fail to see how it is a negative. Yes the scheduling could have been better but something is better than nothing. I am greatful for the people that put in the time to help move our series forward. Thank you all for looking to the future. I am sure that what has been learned from this year will be applied to next.

Spoken like a true DG'r.

I guess when logistics are the most important factor of scheduling events on the same weekend the TD's actually are deciding on who's playing and who's not.

Lets face it DG's are lazy and will always chose closer/easier!

Observation
DG'rs will play 500 extra holes no sweat but want to park right up front

Better than nothing is a good one!

Chris/ Series TD's don't take this personally because you are helping; Chris by running the JR Clinic (a great idea whos time is long overdue) and the Series TD's for your individual efforts

But that attitude sucks. I personally don't like wasting my time and a half assed effort is not pereferable to no effort at all.

"If you don't have time to do it right the first time, When will you have time to do it over?"

You ask why I say half assed I was helping with the 2010 series and was banned for showing oposition to the status quoe. Effort is better than none mentality! The idea of a minimalist series has led to the back room deals. This lack of cohesion or consideration of the community as a whole is our reward.

If you ask me all of the WA series events are capable of supporting themselves with out the series drain on their quality.

[REDFIVE]

What is your goal of this topic? What do you hope to accomplish with this discussion?

[LJ Jubner]

The points of this thread are
Sell Outs and Series Participation for Tournaments

Sell Outs
The assumption that events that coincide on the same weekend (no matter how far apart) will still sell out(no matter the quality) and that the NW player density will support this theory.

Series Participation for Tournaments
Series Golf implies some of golfers will be drawn to events across the state by the mere fact it's part of a series. Otherwise why would anyone even consider contributing to a series that they know geographic speaking players want to play closer to home. By offering competing events on the same weekend Yes, the players have some choice but not as * clear cut as it could be.

Lets talk about the Big Gap. The theroy seems to be if there is a gap between WA Tourn'ies Players will be "Jones"ing to play. Not bad marketing, really. Just myopic.

[olydiscgolf]

Spoken like a true DG'r.

I guess when logistics are the most important factor of scheduling events on the same weekend the TD's actually are deciding on who's playing and who's not.

Lets face it DG's are lazy and will always chose closer/easier!

Observation
DG'rs will play 500 extra holes no sweat but want to park right up front

Better than nothing is a good one!

Chris/ Series TD's don't take this personally because you are helping; Chris by running the JR Clinic (a great idea whos time is long overdue) and the Series TD's for your individual efforts

But that attitude sucks. I personally don't like wasting my time and a half assed effort is not pereferable to no effort at all.

"If you don't have time to do it right the first time, When will you have time to do it over?"

You ask why I say half assed I was helping with the 2010 series and was banned for showing oposition to the status quoe. Effort is better than none mentality! The idea of a minimalist series has led to the back room deals. This lack of cohesion or consideration of the community as a whole is our reward.

If you ask me all of the WA series events are capable of supporting themselves with out the series drain on their quality.







Jub, it wasn't your opposition to the status quot that got you banned from the series coordinator board, it was the fact that your a trash talking douche bag!

If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times...If you want to talk shit, call me, and we can work you through it together!

[REDFIVE]

The points of this thread are
Sell Outs and Series Participation for Tournaments

Sell Outs
The assumption that events that coincide on the same weekend (no matter how far apart) will still sell out(no matter the quality) and that the NW player density will support this theory.

Series Participation for Tournaments
Series Golf implies some of golfers will be drawn to events across the state by the mere fact it's part of a series. Otherwise why would anyone even consider contributing to a series that they know geographic speaking players want to play closer to home. By offering competing events on the same weekend Yes, the players have some choice but not as * clear cut as it could be.


Lets talk about the Big Gap. The theroy seems to be if there is a gap between WA Tourn'ies Players will be "Jones"ing to play. Not bad marketing, really. Just myopic.

Those are the points, now what do you want to accomplish?

[LJ Jubner]

What I am hoping to accomplish is having players,TD etc realize that if we are not careful are greatest asset (growth of the sport) is also our greatest liability.

I also want to point out the hypocrisy that TD's do decide where and when we play and that players have really no say when events are held

[Wobbly Bob]

I'll tell you what I'd like to see accomplished.

I'd like to see series tournament dates selected earlier in the year. The reason PDGA requires A Tier+ events to schedule before January 1st is so that the rest of us TD's can schedule around them.

Given the time and effort that it takes to set up, schedule and coordinate an entire series of events, I believe that the PDGA State Coordinator should take these dates into consideration when approving events that are in another Series and/or outside the required distances and give them some protection.

[REDFIVE]

I'll tell you what I'd like to see accomplished.

I'd like to see series tournament dates selected earlier in the year. The reason PDGA requires A Tier+ events to schedule before January 1st is so that the rest of us TD's can schedule around them.

Given the time and effort that it takes to set up, schedule and coordinate an entire series of events, I believe that the PDGA State Coordinator should take these dates into consideration when approving events that are in another Series and/or outside the required distances and give them some protection.

I would hope that with a full year to plan for the series next year this can be done.

[cefire]

What I am hoping to accomplish is having players,TD etc realize that if we are not careful are greatest asset (growth of the sport) is also our greatest liability.

After several years of thinking about this, I fail to see how growth is more than a minimal asset to the vast majority of golfers (acquisition of new courses is the glaring exception). The liability you mention is just one (and a small one at that) of many, many drawbacks I see to this uncontrolled "grow the sport" mentality.

[LJ Jubner]

Andrew makes a really good point about courses. Look at LSH doubles, not only are there 25-30 participants but another 20-40 casual players, 80% of which are either brand new or less then 3 months experience. Same with Arlington. SeaTac is taking a beating because of the overflow from Lakewood in both amount of play and the unauthorized maintenance.

I would compare DG growth to average teenagers. In a BIG hurry to be grown up. Making decisions that at times seems to not be very well thought out. Anxiously waiting for the next step. First out of grade school, they cant wait to drive, smoke, drink and fornicate. Each of these has choices responsibilities, rewards and consequences. Unfortunately the process is so ingrained that effective evaluation is almost always neglected as they race forward.

Damn the torpedoes full steam ahead come to mind.

[douglaselvis]

I cant wait to drive, smoke, drink and fornicate. That being said..

What I hope is being accomplished by this thread is not the venting of frustrations/group therapy session, but I hope that ther powers that be are ALREADY getting dates set for 2011. 2010 dates are set. People have made plans, yadda-yadda-yadda.

As a past player in the series', I would like to see the dates come out as soon as possible. It would make it easier on the players, TD's and everyone else thats involved. Maybe set a deadline for the beginning of the year and then TD's that fail to meet that deadline now have to work around responsible TD's schedules.

I really hope that the 2011 series is set-up earlier so as to avoid any conflicts and generate as many tourneys with as large a turn-outs as possible.

[GettinBetter]

well with 222 players signed up between the two events I think everything worked out for the best. The more tounaments the better. Choices are awesome.

[LJ Jubner]

well with 222 players signed up between the two events I think everything worked out for the best. The more tournaments the better. Choices are awesome.

If you look closer at the numbers only 5 Eastern WA players are traveling to Kitsap While 15 are traveling to Zoo (3 of which are from West of the mountains). If you look at actual players (of the 15 going to Zoo) 10 of them played Windy River and all will qualify for the INWS

It's pretty bad when it's only the second event of the 2010 series and a decent percentage of our base has already abandoned the WA. Series.

[Cerrgurry]

If you look closer at the numbers only 5 Eastern WA players are traveling to Kitsap While 15 are traveling to Zoo (3 of which are from West of the mountains). If you look at actual players (of the 15 going to Zoo) 10 of them played Windy River and all will qualify for the INWS

It's pretty bad when it's only the second event of the 2010 series and a decent percentage of our base has already abandoned the WA. Series.


I am not sure if it is a sign of abandoning a series. I think it is more making a choice knowing that they only need 3 events to qualify for the WSS.
I will also say that there is more than 5 players from Eastern Washington making the trip for there are 5 just from Walla Walla (Clyde, Scot, The Cook's, and myself).
If you take the non-Spokane area players out of the Zoo count then I think the numbers tell a different story.

Would it be great if the WSS and Inland did not fall on the same weekends and at least 2 weeks apart from each other? Yes!!! Is it realistically possible? NO!!! As it is dates are planned around holidays (Easter and Mother's Day) and known big events (BSF). Then add into the mix what weekends a TD can run the event be it personal or park based and dates get even more limited.


Not trying to attack just trying to add a view.

Take Care
Kristopher

[LJ Jubner]

I am not sure if it is a sign of abandoning a series. I think it is more making a choice knowing that they only need 3 events to qualify for the WSS.
I will also say that there is more than 5 players from Eastern Washington making the trip for there are 5 just from Walla Walla (Clyde, Scot, The Cook's, and myself).
If you take the non-Spokane area players out of the Zoo count then I think the numbers tell a different story.

Would it be great if the WSS and Inland did not fall on the same weekends and at least 2 weeks apart from each other? Yes!!! Is it realistically possible? NO!!! As it is dates are planned around holidays (Easter and Mother's Day) and known big events (BSF). Then add into the mix what weekends a TD can run the event be it personal or park based and dates get even more limited.


Not trying to attack just trying to add a view.

Take Care
Kristopher

No sweat Kevin and Jamie from AVDGC are also two.

Look at Kenniwickiens. Edd D, MACCCCCC lain, Brian Cox would rather drive East 350 miles then 200 West (one way).

Only three and the final counts
that means Easties have to travel West once to qualify while Westies only go East for the finals.

No overlaps
means TD 's need to decide if they are running the event again the following year ASAP. That why it 's more important for a club to run series events. Then it can be about the schedule not who's the TD. imnsho

[all2common]

That's my point:
Instead of COMPEETING for players we should be coordinating for them.

This discussion does not even (but should) include OR. events as well


It seems to me that Magilla has been saying/preaching/requesting this for years.

[Cerrgurry]

No sweat Kevin and Jamie from AVDGC are also two.

Look at Kenniwickiens. Edd D, MACCCCCC lain, Brian Cox would rather drive East 350 miles then 200 West (one way).

Only three and the final counts
that means Easties have to travel West once to qualify while Westies only go East for the finals.

No overlaps
means TD 's need to decide if they are running the event again the following year ASAP. That why it 's more important for a club to run series events. Then it can be about the schedule not who's the TD. imnsho

It is more than just a club putting it on for someone has to step up to be a TD and let's not forget $$$. I don't remember anyone stepping up to run Aloha (not even myself). In Walla Walla we have to look at the other local events for the park (BMX Races, Festivals (sweet onion), Radio Controlled Car and Plane races and other museum events. Then we have to look at local events as well (Balloon Stampede and Fair). Then lets not forget weather :)
When I look at a 6 month window and take into account definite no's and plug in the traditional dates for other tournaments only a few weekends remain. I am sure all other TD's and/or clubs have similar if not greater pressures dictating which weekends they "can" have a tournament.
The Washington series being a west side series is merely the fault of the east side of the mountains having limited courses and this year Walla Walla taking a year off. I think a solution to this would be allow/beg for Walla Walla, Spokane, or Tri-Cities to have a second date that counts as a WSS event.
Truth is no matter what we do as a whole someone will have a conflict with a date or location.
-Kristopher

[GettinBetter]

Maybe the only answer is one coordinator for the PNW. Oregon, INWS, and Washington coordinators submit possible schedules to the PNW coordinator by late December, early January. Then the PNW coordinator submits a couple possible schedules, then vote.

[all2common]

Eric, I like this idea.

[Cerrgurry]

Maybe the only answer is one coordinator for the PNW. Oregon, INWS, and Washington coordinators submit possible schedules to the PNW coordinator by late December, early January. Then the PNW coordinator submits a couple possible schedules, then vote.

It is a workable idea. I think that there should be some collaboration where the TD's can each post their primary choice date, willingness/ability to be flexible with it, etc.
No matter what is done there will be overlap and back to back tournaments etc due to having 24-30 weekends to stuff as many tournaments as we can in a series format.
Getting all the TD's to work together and compromise may be the roadblock.
-kristopher

[all2common]

It is a workable idea. I think that there should be some collaboration where the TD's can each post their primary choice date, willingness/ability to be flexible with it, etc.
No matter what is done there will be overlap and back to back tournaments etc due to having 24-30 weekends to stuff as many tournaments as we can in a series format.
Getting all the TD's to work together and compromise may be the roadblock.
-kristopher

See this (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3130) thread for an attempt at this idea.

[Tim]

The willingness/ability to be flexible is a tough one. There are some TDs that are dead set on particular dates, and it can come down to people calling "shotgun" on possible dates.