Champion edition plastic?

[columbia gorge discgolf]

Why do people consider champ edition plastic to be the best?

[Ol' Bob]

Made form pure unobtainium.

[Adam Schneider]

Why do people consider champ edition plastic to be the best?
It's nearly indestructible. The chemistry geeks say this is because it's almost 100% polyurethane.

[emmarose]

My personal theory is because it's prettier than the other types of plastic...

[Ol' Bob]

And the drawbacks of an indestructible disc from a marketing perspective?

[Adam Schneider]

And the drawbacks of an indestructible disc from a marketing perspective?
Well, exactly. I don't know if that really has anything to do with its disappearance, but it does make you wonder.

[sillybizz]

well some of the ESP/Star discs are much more stable and have a different flight. Pro D/DX breaks in too quickly and I never liked the feel of it. Elite X/Pro breaks in too fast and is usually less stable to begin with and has a different flight as well. Elite Z/Champion doesn't have the grip or durability.

Champion Edition: durable and dependable, like Latitude 64 Opto!

[Ol' Bob]

Actually, that CE Eagle I found with the mower wasn't quite indestructible.

[GettinBetter]

I would have stopped making it too. Or maybe just charge an insane amount for them.

[Parks]

I always love the theories about Innova discontinuing CE because it was too durable.

That being said, it was really nice plastic. Its a hair more grippy than Champ/Z, glides a touch more, is very durable, and molded up pretty nicely (if not a little flat).

I think Opto is just as durable and is more grippy, but doesn't glide quite as well. It also can mold up with more dome than CE, which is good for some discs.

[sillybizz]

I always love the theories about Innova discontinuing CE because it was too durable.

Well it's hard to not think that when they come out with crap like R-Pro.

WORST PLASTIC EVER!

[ryanajanes]

i once found a CE firebird perfect condition, no name no number, and got my first ace with it a week later. CE plastic is great

[columbia gorge discgolf]

The reason why I ask this question is because this summer I came accross a brand new Valkryie at a garage sale and picked it up for .25 cents. I went to throw it and some older golfers freaked out. They said it should be on the wall. To me this is a crazy idea. So I just wanted to know what the deal was. And while we are on the topic, I can't quite wrap my head around collecting disc you aren't going to use. Whats up?

[jevon]

I've had people say the same thing to me when I throw my AbramObama Buzzz. Whats the point of having a disc if you aren't gonna throw it?

[Adam Schneider]

I don't understand the "put it on the wall" mentality either. Discs want to fly.

(Although I realize you shouldn't anthropomorphize discs; they hate that.)

[Tim]

(Although I realize you shouldn't anthropomorphize discs; they hate that.)

:laughing: Nice.

I agree on the throwers-not-showers mentality too, for the most part. But, if it's by chance its a first or even a second run, I probably wouldn't throw it. Some people will pay good money for those. Any other run though, let 'er rip!

[Ol' Bob]

You have to decide at the outset what it is you wish to do, make money, or make sense, as the two are mutually exclusive.
--R. Buckminster Fuller

Something really weird going on with the quote function. It kept replacing the capitals with lower case.

[sillybizz]

anthropomorphize

I had to look that up! :posting: :)

I love .25 cent words.

[Ol' Bob]

I had to look that up! :posting: :)

You animal!

[sillybizz]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropomorphize

lol

[Joshua Olmsted]

I personally like the idea of collecting discs that have personal meaning to someone, that being said some are going to be more attatched to certain discs than others. I don't go out and buy discs to hang on my wall but I do save every tournament players pack disc I get as well as a few others that I find have more value to save than to throw. I still feel horrible that I lost my first tourney disc at Hornings, and I would kill to get it back. I think I also base my collection on how many times I've heard people complain that they got their first ace then promptly lost the disc and hit themselves for it ever since.

[sillybizz]

There is no point for me to throw a limited edition/first run/CFR etc. disc when I have five or six others sitting at home that are the same disc that I can beat into oblivion.

Saying there is no point to getting a disc if you're not going to throw it is like saying there is no reason to collect a coin if you're not going to spend it, or why collect stamps if you're not going to mail anything with them.

[Will of Doom]

There is no point for me to throw a limited edition/first run/CFR etc. disc when I have five or six others sitting at home that are the same disc that I can beat into oblivion.

Saying there is no point to getting a disc if you're not going to throw it is like saying there is no reason to collect a coin if you're not going to spend it, or why collect stamps if you're not going to mail anything with them.

Touché

[Disc Golf Museum]

I personally like the idea of collecting discs that have personal meaning to someone, that being said some are going to be more attatched to certain discs than others. I don't go out and buy discs to hang on my wall but I do save every tournament players pack disc I get as well as a few others that I find have more value to save than to throw. I still feel horrible that I lost my first tourney disc at Hornings, and I would kill to get it back. I think I also base my collection on how many times I've heard people complain that they got their first ace then promptly lost the disc and hit themselves for it ever since.

If you like CE plastic or any rare collectible discs you must check out this new site called www.discgolfmuseum.com
I have hundreds of rare and collectible discs to view or purchase!
I also have hundred of used discs for great prices!
I have all runs a Katana'a and any other hard to find dis

[sillybizz]

That's great you have a new website and I'm not trying to be a jerk but if you could post in the correct area you wouldn't look like spam and people would be more apt to check out the site.

[DMajor]

Made form pure unobtainium.

"The Core" Reference

[emmarose]

I have so many discs hanging on the wall at my Shack... including the hot pink putter I'll never use that I got at the Hoedown last Sunday... Disc golf is such a huge part of my life that it just makes sense to hang them... and when you've been doing it for 30 years you're bound to have a lot of plastic that you don't use anymore... over the doorway to the front porch my dad's girlfriend made a sort of collage I suppose you'd call it of what we consider "collector's discs"... old Wham-o's, 71's and discs with stamps that are sentimental to us... I'll see if I can get a pic posted... some of y'all might get a kick out of it... and maybe even some interior design ideas of your own for your living rooms... hehe...

peace threw disc golf,
emmarose

[Ol' Bob]

That was a fun romp, DGM. Prices are okay.

[Ol' Bob]

I just got a mental image of a house built of wine and beer bottles with discs all over the walls. I collect all the wrong things. I go to the dump and bring home more than I took.

[snap7times]

as part of being a disc golf addict and it being my hobby of choice, collecting discs seems to be part of the hobby... play the game, buy many discs to try out, hang some "valuable" discs on the wall to show all those non disc golfers and disc golfers alike, sign on to like 4 different forums, hosts tournaments, be officers on various dg clubs, it becomes a complete circle of the hobby life to collect some discs... i just started collecting and have over 15 ce and kc pro on the wall, felt I wasn't complete without having something to show for it.. heh

[DMajor]

And the drawbacks of an indestructible disc from a marketing perspective?

I have also heard that they take too big a chunk out of the trees they hit

[Ol' Bob]

I have also heard that they take too big a chunk out of the trees they hit

I would guess that weight and edge shape would be bigger factors in the bark removal process for any given toss. In other words, I believe if the same person repeated the same shot with the same weight and mold of DX, the difference in the chip size would be negligible. The major difference would be in how damaging it was to the disc. A soft nosed bullet does more damage than a full jacketed armor piercing round for a given velocity.

[Parks]

I would guess that weight and edge shape would be bigger factors in the bark removal process for any given toss. In other words, I believe if the same person repeated the same shot with the same weight and mold of DX, the difference in the chip size would be negligible.

While I doubt that what Dan is saying had any real bearing on the discontinuation of CE, I find your second statement there hard to swallow.

Take a soft rubber disc and a steel disc of equal weight and throw them at a tree. The rubber one will likely crumple a fair amount when it hits the tree and absorb some of the shock, while the steel disc has a very good chance of penetrating into the tree. I know that a more elastic object applies more force since it also pushes off its target once it starts to spring back, but that does not necessarily make it more damaging to a tree.

As for your analogy with the soft-nosed bullets vs. armor piercing: There's a very good reason why the soft-nosed bullet does more damage. The armor piercing round penetrates and pokes a tiny hole through flesh and exits out the other side, while the soft-nosed bullet penetrates into the flesh and then either diffuses or kind of rolls around inside (I'm no expert on bullet physics), causing massive internal hemorrhaging.

We're not exactly getting discs up to the kind of velocity where that distinction is being made.

[ChUcK]

You've got it pretty much right, Parks. The basic underlying principle behind it is the soft bullet transfers more kinetic energy to the target than a bullet that passes right on through.

Bob, you need to add that masses are equal also.

So what's your theory on the discontinuation of CE, Lyle? I've never heard anything solid out of Dave D's mouth, so I can't say for sure. I do think planned obsolescence had at least a minor role in the decision.

At the very least, I'm sure the reason revolves around money. Obvious cat is obvious.

[cefire]

I have several things to say on this topic. The first is obvious.

Obvious cat is obvious.

[cefire]

Second, the official reason from DD is that they "ran out" of the CE plastic and cannot get any more. Could be valid, but I'm a bit suspicious.

[DMajor]

The obvious reason is fine with me. It benefits us all for them to stay in business. Plus CE is now the holy grail for all you Innova disc junkies. I have never thrown one

[cefire]

Third, CE plastic (or some of it anyway) really IS still the most durable plastic out there. I still pay $30-50 for old CE Firebirds (the proto clear FLs) because they are worth the investment.

I have had my current CE Firebird in the bag for nine full years IN MY BAG now and it flies *almost* exactely the same as the first day I threw it. Although I got that original one for ~$11 back in the day, its given me 9 years of consistent flights. How many champion/Z/etc. discs would you have had to purchase during that period to get the same result?

Now this all hinges on the player protecting these bag staples against losing them which creates some problems because I have to bring a cheapo champ or Xcal for water shots etc.

[emmarose]

Well it's hard to not think that when they come out with crap like R-Pro.

WORST PLASTIC EVER!

Hey now... I love my r-pro putter... not sure why they'd make driver's out of it, tho...

[cefire]

Well it's hard to not think that when they come out with crap like R-Pro.

WORST PLASTIC EVER!

Lastly, I think we can all agree that the really early Gateway stuff was the worst plastic ever. :D

[Parks]

I don't have a theory on the discontinuation, but I've seen some ideas that seem to carry more merit.

First, let's assume that Innova stopped production of CE because it was too durable. Innova now benefits by selling the less durable Champion plastic for the same price which needs to be replaced more often and lets also assume that it costs the same or less to produce.

This plastic was/is in high demand. What's stopping other manufacturer from gaining market share by getting the CE plastic? Its possible that the distributor couldn't ship to companies in Michigan or Missouri, but Innova had production facilities in California and Ontario (though I'm not sure which one was used or if both were used in the CE era). Its also possible that a company like Gateway or Discraft doesn't have the purchasing power to get the CE plastic in large enough quantities to make it price competitive.

Given demand for CE plastic, a more shrewd business decision would be for Innova to do limited runs of CE for higher prices. People would pay a high premium for modern day drivers in CE. Right now Innova is not making any money off the CE market where people are buying Teebirds for $100.

For a CE price point of say, $30 dollars retail, a Champion disc would have to be replaced at least twice as much as a CE disc for it not to make sense to release runs of CE at a premium. Even if a CE disc is twice as durable as Champion, it will be replaced more often than half as often due to lost discs, buying new releases/different discs, buying backups, etc. Not to mention, that once a disc is beat into where one person doesn't want to use it, that is the money spot for a different player. With less durable discs, Innova still isn't selling discs to that person who buying beat discs on the secondary market.

This is all somewhat plausible, but I think there are better explanations.

I've heard a few things. I've heard that the CE discs were more difficult to mold properly and ended up with a lot of regrinds/bad runs that couldn't be sold. This could make it prohibitively expensive to run CE, especially since it is wasting production time for other discs which is valuable. I've also heard that the price went up to the point where it wasn't worth buying CE over Champion. They almost discontinued Pro plastic for this very reason, and it is NOT durable in the least. The last thing that I've heard that could make sense is that the source changed the plastic which made it cheaper or better for all the other companies buying the plastic, but it made it not viable for discs. This makes sense because Innova is a very small buyer of plastic compared to many other companies right now. They would have almost no influence on the plastic source.

I'm not sure which of these, if any, is true, but it goes beyond "zomg the CE discs were too durable."

[sillybizz]

Just throw Discraft and don't worry about it. :)

[cefire]

Boo!!! Although you will be happy to know that a Z-Cyclone will be coming with me to Shelton.

[DMajor]

Its possible that the distributor couldn't ship to companies in Michigan or Missouri, but Innova had production facilities in California and Ontario (though I'm not sure which one was used or if both were used in the CE era).."

Ontario is in California

[cefire]

Ontario Cat is also in California

[ChUcK]

Ontario is in California

Kinda crappy area, too. All it has going for it is an airport and Innova.

Ive heard rumors that bulk plastic purchases, at the level of affordability that DG manufacturers can muster, is a real guessing game as far as actual percentage content of the various polymers. Like, Dcraft and Innova get the leftovers just like the US Military gets the leftover meat that the State of California penal system rejects.

The only reason people pay that much for CE plastic is because they fear that it is running out. The moment word got around that Innova was making CE stuff again prices for these boutique discs would drop back to sane levels.

[captain jack]

The reason why I ask this question is because this summer I came accross a brand new Valkryie at a garage sale and picked it up for .25 cents. I went to throw it and some older golfers freaked out. They said it should be on the wall. To me this is a crazy idea. So I just wanted to know what the deal was. And while we are on the topic, I can't quite wrap my head around collecting disc you aren't going to use. Whats up?


You're throwing what some pay big dollars for, not like 20, but more like 50-75 bucks, some would consider that kind of expense to be worthy of wall hanging, not chewing up on the local gravel course.
For 25 cents, heck ya, you might as well throw it. You could also probably trade it, if you keep it nice, for 5 or 6 other new discs if you wanted to.


Discrafts' Elite Z plastic is the closest formula to the old CE thats available now.

I'm 100% sure, if Dave could find a reliable vendor for a replacement CE plastic formula, he would make discs with it again. Stuffs money. :rockon:

Kinda crappy area, too. All it has going for it is an airport and Innova

You forgot the chlorine smelling smog, and oppressive desert heat in the summer, thats always a big hit with the tourists.

[sillybizz]

Boo!!! Although you will be happy to know that a Z-Cyclone will be coming with me to Shelton.

Did you just boo me? :nono: :cop: :laughing: :)

[mazza]

Did you just boo me? :nono: :cop: :laughing: :)

U GOT SERVED!!!! hahaha :biggrin2:

[sillybizz]

U GOT SERVED!!!! hahaha :biggrin2:

< pulling a Mazza as we speak! lol

[Ol' Bob]

Did I say "rubber bullets?" I said,"soft point bullets" (i.e., lead). Big difference. I also said, same mold at the same weight. That would be just about equal mass, eh? CE might damage Cottonwood bark more than DX, but cottonwood bark is harder than heck. But let's say, alder bark? Equal weight DX will probably chunk it just as badly as CE for a given mold.

[mazza]

< pulling a Mazza as we speak! lol

rotf

[purediscgolf]

Being an avid CE Thrower and collector is something you have to experience to truly understand....Walking into a living room full of CE plastic is a majestic sight....These discs seem to somehow get better the longer you throw them. The way they age is like a fine wine...
Champion Editions fly better than any other discs on the market, PERIOD. The plastic is so durable and consistent in flight it's almost like cheating when you get it working right. CE model discs fly as they were truly molded to fly.

This is my main basis for judging new runs of plastic....Did this 12x Eagle resemble a CE? Very few runs have made the grade. Therefore, I choose to throw CE Plastic on most of my shots. I do throw newer runs for Water and Risky shots. Mostly to avoid the mental baggage that can come when throwing a rare CE disc in that situation.

The 10x KC Teebird in the "Taffy" material will also be some of the most grippy and true flying discs ever made.....

Come by and check out the tour of discs.... http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pure+disc+golf&search_type=&aq=f

[General Scales]

ok, ive never thrown ce plastic. i'm really not a fan of hard plastics. i can say that parks has it right from a buisness standpoint. my father does a lot of contract work on plastic and has also taken an interest in molding discs (aeronautical engineer). molding the very hard n brittle (during curing) plastic like ce is a hit n miss operation. the plastic itself has to be in a much more controlled enviornment, i.e. temperature, humidity, etc. while doing this back in the day wouldnt result in too much more overhead,today would be killer. iwas lead to believe this was also the reason that they only do very limited runs of the gummy champion. too much handwork and rejects to turn a profit consistently. ud have to charge a massive markup to break even. although u innova fiends seem to all have a hard on for any disc molded in this blend. im sure ud all take a little raping to buy new versions of ur favorite discs.
p.s. i just did this on my ps3. with a controller. im that lame.

[Parks]

Ontario is in California

Hold on, firing my fact checker.

Just throw Discraft and don't worry about it.

Right, because Discraft would never think about discontinuing an amazing plastic.

Or do you not remember Tournament Pro ("Cyclone plastic") or the old opaque matte Z plastic (I have some Talons in this plastic, it seems fairly close to some CE runs). Both were some of the best plastics ever. Tourney Pro Cyclones are like the holy grail of what a Cyclone should be like: insanely grippy, glidey, fairly durable, and just the perfect amount of high and low speed stability. The old opaque matte Z seems like its what ESP should've been: stiff but very grippy, and flies long.

[Parks]

Did I say "rubber bullets?" I said,"soft point bullets" (i.e., lead). Big difference.

Who said rubber bullets?

[Ol' Bob]

Who said rubber bullets?

I may have misread it, but now I guess we'll never know.
Last edited by Parks; January 30th, 2010 at 01:41 AM.

[sillybizz]

Right, because Discraft would never think about discontinuing an amazing plastic. Or do you not remember Tournament Pro ("Cyclone plastic") or the old opaque matte Z plastic (I have some Talons in this plastic, it seems fairly close to some CE runs). Both were some of the best plastics ever. Tourney Pro Cyclones are like the holy grail of what a Cyclone should be like: insanely grippy, glidey, fairly durable, and just the perfect amount of high and low speed stability. The old opaque matte Z seems like its what ESP should've been: stiff but very grippy, and flies long.

I was just being funny. :cool2:

I wasn't around for all of the cool old school plastic, it was out when I started but I was too busy buying Lightning Hyzer #1's and Rubber Putters from G.I. Joe's. (Yes back when Joe's was G.I. Joe's)

[Parks]

I may have misread it, but now I guess we'll never know.

Last edited by Ol' Bob; January 29th, 2010 at 04:53 PM.

I'm in the same boat.

[blang11]

Hold on, firing my fact checker.



Right, because Discraft would never think about discontinuing an amazing plastic.

Or do you not remember Tournament Pro ("Cyclone plastic") or the old opaque matte Z plastic (I have some Talons in this plastic, it seems fairly close to some CE runs). Both were some of the best plastics ever. Tourney Pro Cyclones are like the holy grail of what a Cyclone should be like: insanely grippy, glidey, fairly durable, and just the perfect amount of high and low speed stability. The old opaque matte Z seems like its what ESP should've been: stiff but very grippy, and flies long.

I remember dion arlyn picked up some old school Discraft XLs in this kind of plastic. Matte, almost opaque, light purple Z plastic. They looked and felt pretty awesome to me.

[Chad_from_BC]

Just picked up a later run CE Eagle off Avery Jenkins on eBay for 26$. I have no idea why it didn't sell for more than that. Pretty stoked to get it next week, I have a Star Eagle but I'm not a huge fan of it.

[mazza]

so one of the old timers from steli gave me a super roc awhile back(and god is it money). but when he gave it to me he told me that is was" a X out CE candy super roc" is this a tru statement???

[ChUcK]

Post a pic and I'll tell you.

[Parks]

Just picked up a later run CE Eagle off Avery Jenkins on eBay for 26$. I have no idea why it didn't sell for more than that. Pretty stoked to get it next week, I have a Star Eagle but I'm not a huge fan of it.

Depends if its the X mold or not. CE EL's are nice but probably not quite worth $26, but CE EX's are the bees knees.

[Chad_from_BC]

Depends if its the X mold or not. CE EL's are nice but probably not quite worth $26, but CE EX's are the bees knees.

not sure to tell you the truth, but if you can tell from the picture here it is.

[Parks]

Can't tell from the top, need to see a profile of the rim.

If you have a Teebird and a TL handy, its the same difference for the Eagle-X vs. Eagle-L. The underside of the Eagle-X wing is a little more concave and has a notch (flat ridge at the outer underside edge of the wing).

[Chad_from_BC]

Alright. I know what you mean now with the teebird tl reference. So if the rim is different from my star eagle it's the good one, or is the star all together different anyways.

[snap7times]

how about just asking avery?

[Chad_from_BC]

how about just asking avery?

I was actually thinking of doing that today, cause now I'm curious. I'm not too worried either way though. I was trying to like my star eagle but something about that disc in star was bothering me. I've tossed my friends champion and liked it a lot more. So at the end of the day I'm sure a CE will be even better than that.

[Eric Olson]

Alright. I know what you mean now with the teebird tl reference. So if the rim is different from my star eagle it's the good one,
Other way around. Stars are all X mold. The star eagles also fly great so I don't think there's a good reason to chase down CE.

Got a really beat up CE EL for 2 dollars in the used bin at Next Adventure one time. Traded it for a new Champ Roc. Traded that for two new star eagles. Score.

[Chad_from_BC]

Haha. Nice series of trades. I don't know what it was about the star , I just wasn't a big fan. There's certain discs I love in star like the mako, destroyer and xcalibur but I hate the star teebirds compared to champion. Oh well. We'll see. If nothing else it's a 26$ CE disc signed by a world champ for the wall if I'm not super stoked on it n

[blang11]

ok, ive never thrown ce plastic. i'm really not a fan of hard plastics. i can say that parks has it right from a buisness standpoint. my father does a lot of contract work on plastic and has also taken an interest in molding discs (aeronautical engineer). molding the very hard n brittle (during curing) plastic like ce is a hit n miss operation. the plastic itself has to be in a much more controlled enviornment, i.e. temperature, humidity, etc. while doing this back in the day wouldnt result in too much more overhead,today would be killer. iwas lead to believe this was also the reason that they only do very limited runs of the gummy champion. too much handwork and rejects to turn a profit consistently. ud have to charge a massive markup to break even. although u innova fiends seem to all have a hard on for any disc molded in this blend. im sure ud all take a little raping to buy new versions of ur favorite discs.
p.s. i just did this on my ps3. with a controller. im that lame.

Forum posting from the PS3, that is SO lame! But in a hilarious and sort of awesome way. Thanks for exposing yourself.

[mazza]

ok so how bad am i. i'm posting this from my ipod touch!!!:pullhair:

[General Scales]

ok so how bad am i. i'm posting this from my ipod touch!!!:pullhair:

i would use my touch but it got smashed from falling oh well

[Chad_from_BC]

Depends if its the X mold or not. CE EL's are nice but probably not quite worth $26, but CE EX's are the bees knees.

got in touch with Avery and he confirmed that it's an X mold. woot.

[snap7times]

Score!

[chris7graham]

this is what ive heard coming from innova sponsored pros,that C.E. plastic was disscontinued due to the company that made the key chemical component in the plastic stop production of that chemical,and no one else makes it............:slapface:

[Chad_from_BC]

That definately sounds plausible, but at the same time I think it could be unlikely. What are the chances that one company in the world made a chemical that innova needed? And that if that company went under the chemical simply wasn't available anymore. Surely whatever this chemical might be had another use outside of CE plastic.

[Ol' Bob]

CE plastic leaches estrogen mimickers into your body through your fingers. I'd stay away from CE, especially if you are still of breeding age.






Another rumor, one way or the other, couldn't hurt the CE mystique.

[Chad_from_BC]

That's cool. I already have 3 kids, bring on the CE!!!

[Ol' Bob]

Growing breasts doesn't deter you?

[Chad_from_BC]

Hmmm. There is that.

[Ol' Bob]

Yup, heck with that. I'm sticking with DX.

[snap7times]

Growing breasts doesn't deter you?

Women's Open division always needs a few more entries.... men's open always felt a little crowded...

[Parks]

Growing breasts doesn't deter you?

Sounds less like a fault and more like a feature.

[prospect]

I just got my first CE disc. It's an orange Eagle X, with a rainbow stamp. It was previously thrown, so that's what I'm doing with it!! It is a sick, sick disc. I'm probably gonna blow some tax refund money on a Teebird as soon as I get it.

[Chad_from_BC]

I just got my first CE disc. It's an orange Eagle X, with a rainbow stamp. It was previously thrown, so that's what I'm doing with it!! It is a sick, sick disc. I'm probably gonna blow some tax refund money on a Teebird as soon as I get it.

Yeah, I want a 1st run CE teebird bad. I just can't justify the 100-150$ right now.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Do some trading.... that blue ce gator looks tasty.

[Chad_from_BC]

Do some trading.... that blue ce gator looks tasty.

Heh. It is very tasty. I also love it more than my children (depending on the day).

[BigBubbBelly]

Well it's hard to not think that when they come out with crap like R-Pro.

WORST PLASTIC EVER!
What are you talking about Tom? R-Pro plastic rocks as long as your only throwing the disc in an open, tree less field.

[cefire]

Those CE discs don't really sell at $100, probably an ebay buy-it-now auction you are looking at. I think $50 is a more reasonable price for them.

But, of course, I do have a couple from the Cam Todd personal stack if you want them for $100 :whistler:

[ChUcK]

The Juel-Pro Boss?

[Chad_from_BC]

50$ is reasonable for sure. I usually see the 1st - 3rd run teebirds at about 75-125. If I ever saw one for 50$ I'd snap it up in a second.

[SPIDER-DAN]

Actually there are plenty of ce plastic that sells for over $100. If i see a 1st run ce teebird for $50 i would snatch up in a hurry to.

In fact, there was just a 1st run ce teebird that just ended about 2 weeks ago for $97.00 and that is low from what i usually see......... Mainly due to the economy. Most ce discs like valks, firebirds, teebirds end anywhere between $70-90 and im not talking about 1st runs.