Tough Tee Signs

[The Course Bro]

Howdy, I've been trying to find a vandal resistant tee sign design for a while now and even built my own prototype. We want to put in signs at SeaTac but I am unwilling to put up "T-Ball height" standard signs that WILL get smashed plus I want a design that will allow for quick and cheap repair/replacement as needed.

Criteria:
1. Must withstand impact from wood baseball bat.
2. Unstealable (or so ugly no one will steal it)
3. Easy removal of the top layer of plexi/lexan/unobtainium if broken/scratched or painted/inked.
4. All parts of sign must be easily found at a decent neighborhood hardware store or Home Depot/Lowe's.

My prototype (which passed baseball bat test) was a 12" square cement paver from HD with a layer of roofing felt (padding) three layers of thicker plexiglass and a final thin layer of plexi (cheap and easily replaced). I set angle iron pieces at the top and bottom and used carriage bolts and threaded rod to attach everything together. I dismantled it but will reassemble and post pics.

My goal is to get a easy to build (with basic tools) tee sign design out so new courses and old ones with vandalism problems can make their course better.

Thanks for your help, Bro

[olydiscgolf]

Im working with SignDesigns here in Oly,(the owner just happens to be a friend of mine). Our plan is putting 6"x8" posts' in the ground and cutting the top of at a 60 degree angle, this will give a solid flat surface that is angled for visibillity. Then mounting signs (similar to road signs, grafitti resistant) flush on all 4 sides, with tamper resistant screws. We even got an Eagle scout to aquire and set the post's for us. Cost per sign is around $17, pretty basic design, but effective.

If your interested I can put you in touch with the sign maker.

[Tim]

Hmm, yeah, please do post pics, Bro. I'm having a hard time visualizing what the finished product looks like. So is the sign mounted on a post or something? Or is it flush with the ground? I'm not sure if I've ever seen one flush before, but that might not be a bad idea...blends in with the environment (less of a target for hoodlums), and friendly to mowers. The only bad part would be for newbies who don't know the course layout and wouldn't have an easy visual cue from a distance.

[General Scales]

You could also try a sheet metal manufacturing warehouse. Maybe have some signs cnc'd out of stainless with the routes to various baskets being routed directly into the metal itself. That way the only way you are going to vandalize those bastards is if you actually rip them out of the ground.

[Adam Schneider]

Cascades Gateway in Salem and Adair near Albany have short, stout wooden posts whose tops have been cut at an angle, and a square or oval piece of plexiglass is screwed onto the top. They seem pretty sturdy.
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9356/cgtee.jpg

[Ol' Bob]

Well, like we used to say in the navy:
Nothing is kid proof, or sailor proof.

[Nathan]

Cascades Gateway in Salem and Adair near Albany have short, stout wooden posts whose tops have been cut at an angle, and a square or oval piece of plexiglass is screwed onto the top. They seem pretty sturdy.
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9356/cgtee.jpg

They used a similar technique at Van Zee in Port Orchard, that I think is very effective. They just took trees ~6" in diameter and cut them to about 3-4' and burried the first foot of them. They cut them at the same angle, painted the angle white then painted the needed info right there in black. Some of the signs are from trees that were actually there, I think, and others had to be put there. They're very sturdy and they look pretty nice on the course.

[Ol' Bob]

If you are not using ground contact treated wood, you should choose a rot-resistant wood of some kind. Even if you are using treated, any cut surfaces that go underground should be painted with wood preservative. Posts should not have the sapwood on them. That's the different colored (usually lighter) layer just under where the bark was. In most species of wood, the sapwood is quite prone to rot, even cedar. If I were making posts such as these from untreated wood, I would soak the part that is to go underground and maybe even drill some holes to allow the wood preservative to penetrate more deeply. You don't want to have to do this every couple of years, eh?

As far as setting the posts, tamping is everything. When you backfill the holes, take a good stick and really ram the dirt down hard every couple of inches. Setting post with concrete can accelerate rotting.

[Yardbird]

Van Zee park was known as the place for the neighborhood kids to hang out in. After the course was installed, the activity from the bad kids was drastically reduced. That being said, I wanted to use a tee sign design that inexpensive to make, detered vandalism from the local kids and looked somewhat natural.

The wood post/tee signs at Van Zee have been in the ground for almost three years and are still solid. Yes, they came from downed trees on site. Most of the tee posts are 8" to 10" in diameter.

Knock on wood. The only damage has been a little grafitti here and there, but nothing a paint brush can't fix. I usually touch up paint the tee signs once during the year.

If you go the dgcoursereview.com site and look at the pictures for Van Zee park, you might be able to see a picture of the tee signs/posts.

[Adam Schneider]

Van Zee tee sign:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1962/94049a5c_m.jpg (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/1962/94049a5c.jpg)
(click to embiggen)

[The Course Bro]

Ok so here are the pics:
Cement paver:
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200138.jpg
First layer of plexi:
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200139.jpg

Add a fancy teesign (thanks to Brian for the idea!!)
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200136.jpg

Top layer of thick plexi:
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200141.jpg

And final thin easily replaceable layer of plexi:
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200144.jpg

Final prototype teesign:
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200146.jpg

Anchor to wood, concrete or pre-embed the angled ties to a prepoured base:
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af288/TheCourseBro/PC200145.jpg

The teesign is for hole two at SeaTac- two routes shown on the overhead shot and mirrored by the color coded circles.

OK, start your ultra-crafty minds and let's make a smarter easier package that we can give to the world. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Ol' Bob]

If that is printed on paper, you'll want to be sure to keep out any moisture. So, it would be best to laminate the page before clamping it in there. If sunlight can hit it, you'll want to avoid colors of ink that will fade quickly.

[The Course Bro]

Yeah, I left the original in the yard for a year to see what happened and the water wicked in and trashed the paper. I wonder what I have to do to get UV resistant ink or paper. Maybe I'll laminate the paper with SPF 60 Coppertone? Even B/W will fade in the sun.

Also the metal angle iron needs to be painted to prevent rust and the sign should be mounted at an angle for drainage.

[Ol' Bob]

Red and yellow inks are the ones that go fastest. Black and dark blue are pretty good for the long run. Hell, clear plastic has only a few years of life in direct sun. But what can you do? Booby-trapping the signs is illegal.

[Jet]

Yeah, I left the original in the yard for a year to see what happened and the water wicked in and trashed the paper. I wonder what I have to do to get UV resistant ink or paper. Maybe I'll laminate the paper with SPF 60 Coppertone? Even B/W will fade in the sun.

Also the metal angle iron needs to be painted to prevent rust and the sign should be mounted at an angle for drainage.
It's not cheap but Home Depot sells UV protected Plexiglas. I like the Coppertone idea. You could make all signs face north so that they receive less direct sunlight.

[Ol' Bob]

I hate to bring this up, but cement pavers are really pretty brittle. Treated wood might serve better. It would dent where the pavers would crush and fracture. Two layers of 3/4 inch treated plywood laminated together would be pretty tough. Tougher still with a piece of steel plate sandwiched in between. And of course, vandals can come up with wrenches, so the nutz on those carriage bolts will be a potential weak point.

Thank god I'm a country boy.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Well, you thought your sign was tough, but it's really kind of brittle-
what you really need is some plywood in the middle,
life aint nothin' but a funny, funny, riddle...

thank God Bro's my home boy!


I would think short and stout(low profile) would be less of a target for vandals and sturdier. IMO more natural looking wooden tee-signs are more appealing.
On the topic of vandal-proofing-- what about 'next tee' arrows (or benches;) that are more vandal resistant than others?

[Ol' Bob]

Or vandals that are less vigilante-proof.

You have to hand it to the vandals, they work for no pay and must really love their jobs. The school systems must put them on their career tracks. Maybe they could be hired as motivational speakers.

BTW, Tobe, loved your parody of John Denver.

[The Course Bro]

Yeah, Tobe rocks!!

The pavers are brittle but I was intending them to be placed on a low/flush cement base adj. to the pad. Out of the way of mowers etc. but minimizing sight lines for those tireless vandals and backing the signs with concrete bases should keep them around longer.

This might need to split into two conversations- one about low armored teesigns and another about high ones.

Why not do a really big sign and put it 10 feet up in a tree. Then flexibility would be a plus as thrown objects would bounce off, minimizing damage. But I am trying to find a universal low pad for every course that needs signage but has vandal issues.

[Ol' Bob]

I was just thinking that you'll need to periodically replace the printed sign. How do you make the sign rebuildable and not stealable. At some point it just has to get easier to shoot the vandals than to vandalproof the course stuff. The problem with bear traps is disc golfers are easier to trap than bears and the vandals will steal the traps too. You know, it's not even legal to tar and feather the bastards.

[Wog]

We went with the easier to replace than bulletproof plan. We paid a local sign shop to create a 12" x 18" full color vinyl decal covered with graffiti resistant laminate on thick gauge aluminum. In the year they have been installed I have only had to replace one sign (which the sign shop did for free!). I use a graffiti cleaner to take off the occasional sharpie on the sign and we have had a few signs that were bent by someone hitting the sign, but we just unbent them.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_pics/3019/82c24d9c_m.jpg
Click for more photos of the course. (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/gallery.php?id=3019&mode=gal&view=&hole=&page=1#)
This photo was taken before we put the first year's sponsor decal on the sign.

The good news with a large sign is there is plenty of room for advertising. We chose to sell the bottom 4" of the sign to local supporters/businesses for $100/$500 a year. The $100 is our regular sponsor level and $500 is for gold sponsors. Gold sponsors are given preferential treatment on all course literature (scorecards, etc.) and are automatically given a hole sponsorship for club sponsored tournaments during the year. The $1200+ dollars that has been donated each year now more than pays for any sign repair and other course maintenance and upgrades we need.

The only thing I'll be changing with our signs as we move forward is to back them with plywood so that the bending issue is no longer a factor. I realize this won't work for every course out there, but wanted to share our experience.

[Ol' Bob]

Very nice looking signs. Very nice, indeed.