Nuke?

[BlarneyStoner]

What's the word on this bad boy?

[Adam Schneider]

I only know what it says on DGR: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14994

[sillybizz]

They are coming out with the Nuke in ESP and the Nuke SS!!! The Nuke is going to be somewhere between a 1.5 and 1.7 and is fast like the Boss.

Nuke (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=2762)

Nuke SS (http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc_eng.aspx?DiscId=2773)

[General Scales]

A Force is just as fast as a Boss.

Thats not what this is about though. I can't frickin wait for my pre-order Nukes to get here.

The thing that worries me is the S.S. version. 1.6 is stable enough to handle high speeds and still fade.

An S.S. version would probably end up being a massive roller. If it's anything like the Avenger's S.S. version.

[sillybizz]

A Force is just as fast as a Boss.

Thats not what this is about though. I can't frickin wait for my pre-order Nukes to get here.

The thing that worries me is the S.S. version. 1.6 is stable enough to handle high speeds and still fade.

An S.S. version would probably end up being a massive roller. If it's anything like the Avenger's S.S. version.

I hate it when you big arm players say that my straightest disc is way too understable. :headbang:

Nukes on ebay (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m38.l1313&_nkw=discraft+nuke&_sacat=See-All-Categories)

[RonTheWhip]

I've got an order of Nukes on the way, can't wait!

[Adam Schneider]

An S.S. version would probably end up being a massive roller. If it's anything like the Avenger's S.S. version.
Yes, the Avenger SS is way more understable than the Avenger... but that's not the case with the Surge vs. Surge SS. We'll just have to see how the Nuke SS pans out.

[sillybizz]

Someone bought a Nuke from ebay right after I put a link to them, lol that's funny, who was it?

[General Scales]

Hehe, I still throw the living daylights out of my S.S. Avengers. Still my goto for tailwinds, tunnels, turnovers and hyzer flips. I love the fact that I can launch it at 60 percent power and still throw 300 plus. It's got soooo much glide its fantastic.

As for the Surge and Surge S.S. I could do without either one of them. I'm not nor will I ever be a Surge fan. Which makes me worry a tad since the Nuke has been compared to a fast Surge.

Still can't wait for them to come though.

[sillybizz]

Hehe, I still throw the living daylights out of my S.S. Avengers. Still my goto for tailwinds, tunnels, turnovers and hyzer flips. I love the fact that I can launch it at 60 percent power and still throw 300 plus. It's got soooo much glide its fantastic.

As for the Surge and Surge S.S. I could do without either one of them. I'm not nor will I ever be a Surge fan. Which makes me worry a tad since the Nuke has been compared to a fast Surge.

Still can't wait for them to come though.

I agree 100% with everything you just said, except I can't throw 300 feet with 60% power, hehe, maybe 105% power. :)

[Tennessee]

The one's that Barsby has and we've thrown are on the gummy side and a little flippy at high speed but are very comparable to the boss, the two fastest discs out for sure.
Greg and i agree that the best Nukes have yet to come out .... Say a domey, stiff esp would be money.:chinscratch:

[The Ombudsman]

I agree 100% with everything you just said, except I can't throw 300 feet with 60% power, hehe, maybe 105% power. :)
Don't fret, teammate! I guartantee that I will have you throwing 320+ by the end of winter!

[sillybizz]

Don't fret, teammate! I guartantee that I will have you throwing 320+ by the end of winter!

My putting has been spot on lately, anything under 35 feet is going in right now so who needs distance. :)

TURBO PUTTING RULES! Team OLY is going down!

[General Scales]

The one's that Barsby has and we've thrown are on the gummy side and a little flippy at high speed but are very comparable to the boss, the two fastest discs out for sure.
Greg and i agree that the best Nukes have yet to come out .... Say a domey, stiff esp would be money.:chinscratch:

Gummy as in more like FLX or gummy as in the new Star blend from Innova that they've been using on the Mako, Dart, San Marino Roc, etc...

Plus, when you were bombing it was it into a wind, with a tailwind or a beautiful soggy day in Portland?

[Tennessee]

not like flx or r pro just gummy..... no wind.

[Sam]

Yes, the Avenger SS is way more understable than the Avenger... but that's not the case with the Surge vs. Surge SS. We'll just have to see how the Nuke SS pans out.

Huh... is this a lack of consistency in their plastic or in their manufacturing process, ya think?

Meh... either way it just shows that the lack of consistency is true at ALL disc manufacturers and not just the best one, Innova. :nahnah:
:dancing:

[Adam Schneider]

Huh... is this a lack of consistency in their plastic or in their manufacturing process, ya think?
Nice try, Sam. This has nothing to do with consistency. The "SS" designation just means slightly different things for different models; they never claimed that a Surge SS and an Avenger SS would differ from their ancestors by exactly the same amount (whatever that would mean).

[Sam]

LOL
One would think if they use a designation on their discs that that designation would mean something. I guess you are saying that in the Discraft world that this is not the case meaning the lack of consistency is in the standards used to classify their discs.

[Tim]

SS = Super Straight (which translates to flippy).

This is absolutely NOTHING like Innova putting an -L designation on their discs.

/sarcasm

[Bluedisc]

Nuke = Katana ?

[Adam Schneider]

One would think if they use a designation on their discs that that designation would mean something.
It means "less overstable." As Tim alluded to, please explain how this is inferior to "-L".

[Sam]

Inferior? I didn't say inferior. I said "the same".

Thank you and good night. :)

[jevon]

Lets look at the stability ratings. Surge 1.7, Surge SS 1.6, not much difference. Avenger 1.6, Avenger SS 0.5, huge difference. Sam is right, it must be due to consistency standards... :rolleyes2:

All the SS means is that they gave the disc a straighter edge to enhance controllability at slower speeds.

[Tim]

Inferior? I didn't say inferior. I said "the same".

Thank you and good night. :)

:confused: What do different molds have to do with consistency? You would expect a Teebird to fly differently than a TL, as you would expect an Avenger to fly differently than an Avenger SS. That should be consistent across the board.

Now if you pick up a new Teebird and it flies like TL, then you've got some consistency issues. (Incidentally, I think Teebirds and TLs are probably a couple of the more consistent molds Innova offers.)

[Sam]

I think if I pick up a disc with the -L - regardless of the mold - I would think that the difference between that and the model without the -L would be consistent from disc to disc. Same with SS.

In other words, if the Teebird-L is more overstable than a Teebird by a factor of .5, I would think a Firebird-L would be the same amount of more overstable than a Firebird-L. That is, .5.*

* I know Innova doesn't use numbers and they are just pointed out for illustrative purposes.

[Adam Schneider]

In other words, if the Teebird-L is more overstable than a Teebird by a factor of .5, I would think a Firebird-L would be the same amount of more overstable than a Firebird-L. That is, .5.*
Define "a factor of 0.5." Every mold is different, the same standards can't apply.

[Sam]

Used for illustrative purposes.

I think the -L or the SS should affect all discs the same way - consistently.

[Ol' Bob]

I've had Teebirds and Teebird-Ls. They both were all over the map. You know, just like Innova discs. Some nice and straight and trustworthy, some so flippy as to give to newbies. I absolutely loved the ones that worked for me, until I lost them.

[Tim]

Used for illustrative purposes.

I think the -L or the SS should affect all discs the same way - consistently.



http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/random/1259071456272.jpg

I see what you're saying, that if you want something a tic less stable than whatever disc, then the SS or -L version should be the solution. The fact that Discraft's discs don't necessarily line up under that mode of thinking isn't a consistency issue though. Maybe a naming issue, but not consistency.

[Adam Schneider]

You miss Brian, don't you Sam?

[Ol' Bob]

I bet Sam handles it all right. He'll reach down deep and find the strength.

[Matt B.]

I've had Teebirds and Teebird-Ls. They both were all over the map. You know, just like Innova discs. Some nice and straight and trustworthy, some so flippy as to give to newbies. I absolutely loved the ones that worked for me, until I lost them.

I've never ever once had a new teebird act so flippy as to give to newbies. I've probably had and thrown 15. It's you.

[Parks]

I've never ever once had a new teebird act so flippy as to give to newbies. I've probably had and thrown 15. It's you.

This is true.

Teebirds and TLs are pretty consistent, as far as molding goes.

As with many molds, you may need to remove the flashing from some of them to get them to fly right. However, if anything, the flashing makes the disc more stable.

[REDFIVE]

Plastic is a mixture of different compounds and such. The mixture isn't going to be consistant throughout the whole batch due to settling and different densities at each level of the mix. Different colors will also change the density or consistancy of the plastic mix from one color to the next. It isn't so much the molds being inconsistant it is the plastics. If you know what you like and how to find it the consistancy or inconsistancy is on your side. A little off from the off topic but related.
Origin of theory...
I enjoy a good tea and even if I buy 2 of the same brand same flavor right next to eachother they may taste slightly different due to the brewing process. This is my theory I will call it the mate(matay) theory.

[Parks]

Plastic is a mixture of different compounds and such. The mixture isn't going to be consistant throughout the whole batch due to settling and different densities at each level of the mix. Different colors will also change the density or consistancy of the plastic mix from one color to the next. It isn't so much the molds being inconsistant it is the plastics. If you know what you like and how to find it the consistancy or inconsistancy is on your side.

While you are right that the plastics can and do affect the properties of the disc, the mold supersedes that (in the same plastic type i.e. DX, ESP, etc).

Simply put, there are some molds with drastically varying characteristics (Flash, Destroyer, Force, Diablo DT, to name a few, often wider rim drivers), while some have less variation (mostly slower, overstable molds).

And by mold I don't mean the aluminum/steel mold itself, which almost certainly changes on a scale that is several orders of magnitude smaller than needed to noticeably affect flight characteristics.

[REDFIVE]

When you get into the wider rimmed discs there are other additives (or less) to make the discs or plastics lighter. You can't use the same blend to make a 175 boss and a 175 teebird. There is just too much plastic used to make the boss. This is why the r-pro was introduced so they could get the boss in lighter weights. So the molds affect the ability to use certain plastics. A teebird canbe made with denser plastics that will come out much more consistant than the softer or less dense light plastics used for bigger discs.

[Parks]

Weighting agents are part of it, yes.

[TYVEK]

ok, so its cool that Discraft came out with a new disc, but couldnt they pick a name that wasnt so lame??! Nuke just sounds so dumb for a disc name.

i dont throw wide rim discs anyways so i probably wont be trying this one. i might try it if it had a cooler name though. :biggrin2:

[snap7times]

Nuke makes sense for a long BOMB disc... Nuke the hole dude! BOOOM!

[Matt B.]

ok, so its cool that Discraft came out with a new disc, but couldnt they pick a name that wasnt so lame??! Nuke just sounds so dumb for a disc name.

i dont throw wide rim discs anyways so i probably wont be trying this one. i might try it if it had a cooler name though. :biggrin2:

Should have called it "Meat".

Young girls get wooly.

[Joshua Olmsted]

I think if I pick up a disc with the -L - regardless of the mold - I would think that the difference between that and the model without the -L would be consistent from disc to disc. Same with SS.

In other words, if the Teebird-L is more overstable than a Teebird by a factor of .5, I would think a Firebird-L would be the same amount of more overstable than a Firebird-L. That is, .5.*

* I know Innova doesn't use numbers and they are just pointed out for illustrative purposes.


Interestingly enough the differences in relative stability do differ in Innova. Innova has three molds with the L tag: the Starfire-L, the Teebird-L and the Firebird-L.

Starfire: 0 turn, 3 fade
Starfire-L: -1 turn, 2 fade

Firebird: 0 turn, 4 fade
Firebird-L: 0 turn, 2 fade

Teebird: 0 turn, 2 fade
Teebird-L: 0 turn, 1 fade.

In the teebird their is a lesser difference in relative stability, at least according to the INNOVA website, so much for the L tag meaning the same. Now I could really care less, I think as long as it's stated up front whtat the disc does it doesn't matter, and I greatly enjoy both my Avengers and Avenger SSs, but I was bored and wanted to prove a small point, LOL.:slapface:

[Sam]

The bottom two actually match up quite nicely. The Starfire would be the anomaly and that should be fixed by making the Starfire-L 0 turn and 1.5 fade. Then you would have consistent differences.

All of this to say, BOTH companies use their add-on letters oddly and without consistency between molds.

[jevon]

All of this to say, BOTH companies use their add-on letters oddly and without consistency between molds.

How can you do that? The molds are different with different flight characters. By straightening the edge they are doing nothing with other areas of the disc that affect flight. How can you expect a small tweak to affect every mold the same way? One mold gets affected slightly and another gets affected more, it makes complete sense when you think about it logically. Now if somehow they were attempting to make it the same across the board they would have to change a whole lot more and you would just end up with a different mold.

[Ol' Bob]

Of course some of it is me. All those Teebirds weren't new, though a couple were. The ones that worked for me were well beaten in and stayed good. Whether regular, or -L, they were all Pro. The ones that were too flippy were given to me because they were too flippy for the previous owners. What most of you guys call, "flippy," I call "stable." The flippy ones didn't look beat. They looked pretty new. They flipped like 150 DX Stingrays.

All these molds and names sure give us stuff to talk about.

[Scott]

Should have called it "Meat".

Young girls get wooly.

Nice -

A more apt disc for me would be the Crash.

[General Scales]

I just ordered the armageddon black Nuke (well, two of them). Can't believe I'm paying 50 plus shipping just to have them but I'm a disc hoe.

[sillybizz]

I just ordered the armageddon black Nuke (well, two of them). Can't believe I'm paying 50 plus shipping just to have them but I'm a disc hoe.

They are only making 100 of those so hold on to them!

[Parks]

Of course some of it is me. All those Teebirds weren't new, though a couple were. The ones that worked for me were well beaten in and stayed good. Whether regular, or -L, they were all Pro. The ones that were too flippy were given to me because they were too flippy for the previous owners. What most of you guys call, "flippy," I call "stable." The flippy ones didn't look beat. They looked pretty new. They flipped like 150 DX Stingrays.

All these molds and names sure give us stuff to talk about.

Well, this is making more sense. The Pro Teebirds that I've seen have been flippy-poop. The Pro TLs seem to hold up better, which is really odd.

As a side note, a 169g Pro TL was my longest disc for quite some time. Those things bomb (fairly straight, too!) until they get too flippy.

[Matt B.]

Of course some of it is me. All those Teebirds weren't new, though a couple were. The ones that worked for me were well beaten in and stayed good. Whether regular, or -L, they were all Pro. The ones that were too flippy were given to me because they were too flippy for the previous owners. What most of you guys call, "flippy," I call "stable." The flippy ones didn't look beat. They looked pretty new. They flipped like 150 DX Stingrays.

All these molds and names sure give us stuff to talk about.

I don't think conclusions about mold stability or inconsistency can be made when you are throwing used and beat discs with unknown histories that "look new". That's just silly.

[papatart]

Well, we have the Nuke out here at the Dalaiwood pro shop and it is definitely a fun disc to throw. The Discraft rating of 1.6 seems to be about right IF you have the arm to crush it at high speeds. Definitely more overstable than the Katana, which is what some are trying to compare it to.

Also, doesn't seem to be any huge differences in stability due to weight as I have thrown from 169 to 174. Have to say this disc is fast, but still has a great glide to it and will hold the line when power throws are used. It's a good'n!

Also, just got in the Soft Focus (the ace race disc this year). While players of the Ace Race received a D plastic and an ESP version, it is now available in X Soft plastic and it feels and flies great.

So come on out and check out all the goods, doubles start at 10:00 on Saturday! Ace pot is around $200 so there's some fine Xmas money for ya'!

Later,
Papa

[Ol' Bob]

All I can say is the best Teebird I ever had (for me) was a Pro that I got new. I beat it to death until it looked like crap and it just kept working for me (until I lost it--I've searched for years for it--it's probably not more than 150 feet from this computer). It had a rebar shaped chunk out of the rim from where I hit the rebar grape arbor on the fifth hole. It was the disc that got me my only birdie ever on that hole. I had a Pro Teebird-L that performed almost as well, but only if I took something off. And then there were those few that were nutzo flippy, though hardly worn. I take all this as evidence of wild inconsistency.

As I have long said, I LOVE Innova discs when they work for me. I just don't like having to try six to get to that one. I do it for the one that works because that one will be great. If I had a better arm I'd probably go with the more expensive plastics and find them more consistent. I now use FLX Buzzzes for the downhill shots I used to use my fave Teebird for, and an FLX Surge for the uphills.

Maybe my problem is that the Innova discs that work for me are the really weird ones, the one in six that isn't consistent. Maybe the other five are all the industry standard.

[Nathan]

This disc is awesome. I think it is something right in between a surge and a force. Its really nice and goes really far. I'm looking forward to going to a field and seeing if I can throw it farther than my other max D drivers. I highly suggest purchasing one.

[DMajor]

The nuke should only be used modern warfare 2 style. Pull it out on yur last hole and apocalyze the competition

[RonTheWhip]

First Impressions

I got my box of Nukes in and got to field test them a bit today. My first impression is THIS DISC IS FAST. Noticeably faster than a Force, with still a great amount of glide. It is understable in comparison to the Force (which is really the only high speed driver I throw backhand, other than a predator). I don't throw the Surge or the Flash, but it is in a similar stability range as those two (High Speed Understable, Low Speed Moderate Fade). It requires a decent amount of height if you plan on throwing a big bomb with it, it seems to take awhile to come out of the turn portion of its flight. Overall I can see using it on big rips that need to turn over. It is not a impressive as the Force, which is currently the best driver on the market in my opinion. I do feel like it will be easier to get distance with than a Force, although I am pretty dialed into the big anhyzer with the Force. I'm glad this disc got made, it was about time, but I don't think its going to revolutionize anyone's game. If you can't throw very far (300-350), this disc will help you reach the 400 mark. If you can throw 400 + then this disc might be fun for super long turnovers and pure roller distance. I'd like to do more testing with this disc and see how it wears in. I did only get about twenty throws with it today, so maybe I'll be surprised.

[sillybizz]

I tried my Nuke out today and my review is a little different from RonTheWhip as I have a noodle arm and can't get the disc more than about 300 feet and about 280 when I'm trying to be accuracte.

The Nuke is still way stable for me, I thought it was going to be like a faster Flash based on it's 1.6 rating but it's much more stable than that for me. It's fast but it's hard for me to throw it in the fairway and it doesn't go as far or as accurate as an Avenger SS for me so I doubt it's going to make it in the bag. I like my Force and the Force for me is very stable but I can keep it in the fairway.

If you can't throw very far you might want to stay away from the Nuke. Sorry Discraft I still love you but the Nuke isn't for me. I also have trouble with the wide rimmed discs which effects my throwing of these discs like the Katana, Boss, etc.

[General Scales]

Hopefully I get mine tomorrow. That'd be a sweet bday present from me to me.

[jevon]

Thanks for the review for us noodle arms. I'm hoping to get mine tomorrow. If not it should be here early next week. 168 yellow Nuke, hopefully not yet another disc to be put in the closet after a couple days of playing with it.

[Parks]

As with most discs, the wider the rim the higher the cruising speed required for the disc to act how it is supposed to (1.6 rating in this case).

[snap7times]

I think anyone who can't get their throws over 325-350 consistenly need to stick to speed 9-10 and under. What's wrong with sticking to starfire, orc, beast, valk, viking, firebird if it works for you. There is a torque requirement to throw speed 11+ discs and not everyone is cut out to throw it, maybe eventually yes it could be possible. So with that said, anyone who can't handle the Nuke or Katana, I'll be interested in some trades for discs that are more suitable to your present game.

[sillybizz]

I think anyone who can't get their throws over 325-350 consistenly need to stick to speed 9-10 and under. What's wrong with sticking to starfire, orc, beast, valk, viking, firebird if it works for you. There is a torque requirement to throw speed 11+ discs and not everyone is cut out to throw it, maybe eventually yes it could be possible. So with that said, anyone who can't handle the Nuke or Katana, I'll be interested in some trades for discs that are more suitable to your present game.

I agree. I have a Force but everything else in the bag is a fairway driver or lower speed driver along with my six mid ranges and two putters. I like the control from lower speed discs and even if I get a ton of distance which will never happen I think I will still have a bunch of low speed stuff.

Still my Nuke is going on the wall, nice try though. :)

[snap7times]

I agree. I have a Force but everything else in the bag is a fairway driver or lower speed driver along with my six mid ranges and two putters. I like the control from lower speed discs and even if I get a ton of distance which will never happen I think I will still have a bunch of low speed stuff.

Still my Nuke is going on the wall, nice try though. :)

Thought I would try ;) I started a thread under trades... I wonder if those noodle arms ever try throwing discs enough times to break them in. I had a champ valk that was overstable like crazy when I first started with it, but after enough throws, now it goes 350 with a smooth turn and finish with less effort...

[Parks]

I agree. I have a Force but everything else in the bag is a fairway driver or lower speed driver along with my six mid ranges and two putters. I like the control from lower speed discs and even if I get a ton of distance which will never happen I think I will still have a bunch of low speed stuff.

Still my Nuke is going on the wall, nice try though. :)

The Force works because its supposed to be a stable to overstable driver. So with less arm its still going to do what its supposed to do, just fading much earlier and with more skip.

Have you tried a Predator? Its like a Force that fights wind better, and powers down a lot better. You'll get the same consistency with more control.

Also, Predators (especially lighter ones) go pretty long. They're only 30-40 feet shorter than my distance drivers on slight anny S lines.

[Parks]

Thought I would try ;) I started a thread under trades... I wonder if those noodle arms ever try throwing discs enough times to break them in. I had a champ valk that was overstable like crazy when I first started with it, but after enough throws, now it goes 350 with a smooth turn and finish with less effort...

I think if you have to break in a certain mold to use it, then its probably too much disc for you. Beyond removing flashing, of course.

That being said, a Valkyrie should be a good driver for anyone throwing close to 300', so that was probably just a freak stable one.

[jevon]

Just got my Nuke in the mail. It feels better in my hand than the Boss did. Nice flat top, kinda feels like my old Wraith with a wider rim.

[sillybizz]

The Force works because its supposed to be a stable to overstable driver. So with less arm its still going to do what its supposed to do, just fading much earlier and with more skip.

Have you tried a Predator? Its like a Force that fights wind better, and powers down a lot better. You'll get the same consistency with more control.

Also, Predators (especially lighter ones) go pretty long. They're only 30-40 feet shorter than my distance drivers on slight anny S lines.

The Predator is too stable for me to the point that it's fading as soon as it comes out of my hand and I can throw a mid range about as a far as a Predator. The Force on the other hand will be straight for a while and then predictably fade left. My Force is broken in too so that helps.

[jevon]

I tried out my Nuke yesterday for 38 holes at Hagg and Grand Lodge. After the first hole at Hagg the only discs I used were the Nuke and my putters. I wanted to see what shots it was capable of and to beat it in a bit. I'm really liking this disc.

With a good pull and snap, when released flat it flies a lot like my Pro Wraith, turning over slightly before coming back. It also handles a hyzer line very well. What really impressed me was the HUGE anny's I was able to get with it. With a good amount of stank put on it, it would hold the line, flattening out at the end. If I didn't put enough on it, it would flex out. It was not so good at skip shots. I use a Force for 90 degree skip shots, or a Surge for something not so tight. When the Nuke hits the ground it pretty much continues on the line it was on without hooking to the left when it skips up, and it wasn't skipping very far.

I'm looking forward to throwing this disc throughout the winter. This ESP blend is pretty tasty.

[RonTheWhip]

Probably the coolest thing about this disc is the plastic blend. Very nice feeling in the hand. So far I've sensed this disc to be great for sidearms, better then the Force for that perhaps, since it doesn't fall out of the sky so dramatically, but it also resists turning over quite well for me.

[blang11]

I took my new Nuke out to the football field at Lincoln High School yesterday to test it out. The shape and plastic feel great in my hand. I was bombing shots like never before both in terms of distance and shape. I found the best distance came from really high anhyzer trajectories. Even with a tailwind, the disc did not want to fade out too much which just kept the damn thing going in the air. It was definitely fun. I don't think I would throw it in competition though. Maybe as a roller. I didn't really practice those shots much because rolling on a turn field made it too easy to run out of stadium. Not realistic conditions.

Also, having thrown both the Katana and Nuke, I can say with some minor authority that they fly similarly. I was expecting the Nuke to be noticeably more stable than the Katana but I don't think that is the case. Also, I think the Nuke has a tad more glide. I'm just basing that on my throws with the Nuke traveling farther than the Katana with roughly the same flight path. It's also my uninformed guess that Discraft will eventually produce a more overstable version of the Nuke for players who throw with more power.

[Ol' Bob]

Somebody from here emailed me and asked, "Have you gotten your hands on one of these Nukes yet?"

I responded, "Geezus, I bet messages like this are driving the Total Information Awareness computers nutz."
http://battleangel.org/gfx/clipart2/total_information_awareness.jpg Hi, Admiral Poindexter.:seeya: