2010 CSI Pre Release

[LJ Jubner]

The 2010 CSI is on the books.
The first weekend in April 4/3-4/10. C Tier, 54 holes, 1st place Trophies only, Exhibition Skins

Yes, it is Easter Sunday.

In keeping with the jub tradition of trying new or different tournament ideas.

I am thinking about not offering Age protected Ams this year.

I am also thinking about lowering the entry fees for Age Protected Open to $45 (both Masters and Grandmasters).

[Scott]

The 2010 CSI is on the books.
The first weekend in April 4/3-4/10. C Tier, 54 holes, 1st place Trophies only, Exhibition Skins

This has been on my wish list of tournaments to play for some time now. Thanks for announcing it so far in advance - it really helps folks plan their schedules. But...


Yes, it is Easter Sunday.
That's dealbreaker #1

I am thinking about not offering Age protected Ams this year. That's dealbreaker #2


I hope you have a great tournament.

:cheers:

[REDFIVE]

Why easter?

[LJ Jubner]

It's just the first weekend in April thats all

[olydiscgolf]

Like Jub would change the date for anybody, let alone GOD!

[LJ Jubner]

Like Jub would change the date for anybody, let alone GOD!

If I did that sam would never come!

I think even Chuey would say "there is enough day to celebrate Cool Shoez too."

[olydiscgolf]

If I did that sam would never come!

I think even Chuey would say "there is enough day to celebrate Cool Shoez too."

AMEN!

[LJ Jubner]

CSI is now the kick off event of the 2010 INWS series. More info as it becomes available

[olydiscgolf]

CSI is now the kick off event of the 2010 INWS series. More info as it becomes available

Interesting! That must be the furthest Inland the the INWS has gone?!?!

[LJ Jubner]

Actually it went from Montana to Wenatchee last year. I am proud to be the token West side event. here is the flyer link

http://www.discgolfpugetsound.com/2010%20CSI%20flyer.pdf

[ChUcK]

I'll be there. Let me know what I can do to help, Jub.

[Wobbly Bob]

The Inland North West Series welcomes the Cool Shoes Invitational as the INWS season opener in 2010.:yay::yay: As always this will be a great tournament and a great addition to the INWS. :cheerleader: I'd bet this one fills up real early.

[DMajor]

That is great. Now I will have an excuse to try and get over to enough inland events to qualify. How many events are there going to be and how many do you need to qualify?

[DMajor]

I am all for the no age protection idea. Would there then just be an intermediate and advanced division or one big happy amatuer division?

[The Ombudsman]

Like Jub would change the date for anybody, let alone GOD!

God does not have a problem with me playing disc that day.
I love being Jewish!

[DMajor]

And what about the sabbath the day before?

Shabbat Shalom Mikey

[Getty]

And what about the sabbath the day before?

Shabbat Shalom Mikey

Oy vey!

[LJ Jubner]

I am stoked about being the 2010 INWS Kick off event. There are going to be some really great promotions this year. We are working on an "Instant Win Basket Toss" and a powder coated Mach 3 as a series raffle prize. These and upscale custom series plastic are in store for those who dare to cross over to the Eastside

DMajor One of the reasons why WE hooked up was to promote more Westies to try their luck East of the mountains.What a great line up of events Stimpi's Downriver Open, LCO. Chump Challenge , Zoo Town-Missoula. The beast in Troy, Nuclear Meltdown, Farragut and the finals in Leavenworth will ALL be off the hook.

You only need 4 to qualify

Final Event Anyone can play but results only count if you have already qualified.

[The Ombudsman]

And what about the sabbath the day before?

Shabbat Shalom Mikey
Sabbath is a day of rest
disc golf helps me rest

[ScottW]

I like the idea of having the CSI in the INWS but having it on Easter will prevent me from playing it - not because God doesn't want me to, rather my wife:slapface: That and the fact that I have a 4 day conference that will eat up the entire weekend before. I would much rather play CSI than Downriver the following week but it looks like I may be playing Downriver anyway. 3 Tourney rounds at Downriver is just not exciting to me.

[LJ Jubner]

Thanks Scott You still have Jet Wash to shoot for!Yeah we all have higher voices to answer too.

Downriver 3X You get to be the guinea pig (new course design) or the permanent old course record holder. Either way Downriver should be great and you know Stimpi will treat the ol gal just right.

Hey Stimp I got one Pro Grand so far, You would make two. Gordy K 3? Bmob, Edge, Chef? I will do my part and play up to Pro Grand to help qualify the division for the series. jub.

[DMajor]

I like the idea of having the CSI in the INWS but having it on Easter will prevent me from playing it - not because God doesn't want me to, rather my wife:slapface: That and the fact that I have a 4 day conference that will eat up the entire weekend before. I would much rather play CSI than Downriver the following week but it looks like I may be playing Downriver anyway. 3 Tourney rounds at Downriver is just not exciting to me.

Hit me up when you finally get out here to visit the inlaws Scott.

[LJ Jubner]

The RSVPs are starting to arrive now. I am currently working on an online invitation/presentation that will be available for your viewing pleasure, soon!

[LJ Jubner]

If you have not noticed CSI is filling rapidly. Better get in touch with me ASAP if you want in.

[Stimpi]

Thanks Scott You still have Jet Wash to shoot for!Yeah we all have higher voices to answer too.

Downriver 3X You get to be the guinea pig (new course design) or the permanent old course record holder. Either way Downriver should be great and you know Stimpi will treat the ol gal just right.

Hey Stimp I got one Pro Grand so far, You would make two. Gordy K 3? Bmob, Edge, Chef? I will do my part and play up to Pro Grand to help qualify the division for the series. jub.

Thanks for thinking of this old guy, but if I am forced to play with those 39 year-old child masters, I can deal. I see Scott has forgone his "bagging" ways to play Open. Gotta follow his example. :biggrin2:

[Rolly]

Hey Jub for those that signed up for CSI at the Byop event last weekend.when will we be seeing our names added to the registration? Thanks rolly #42821

[LJ Jubner]

Don't panic just yet. Payment insures your entry.

[Rolly]

thanks jub.. I feel much better now. :)

[Snooskie Longhorn]

Sorry Jub for pointing this out, but now that I'm 40, perhaps my eyes are going bad, but "Intitational"?:

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=9764

Would love to play the tourney, but I have to work that weekend.

Will try to get another bench going for hole 8 before the big event.

Thanks,

Ben M.

[Ken Smith]

He's a breast man apparently!:p

[Wobbly Bob]

This year the Cool Shoes Invitational:cheerleader: will be the first tournament in the Inland Northwest Series to offer anyone (tournament competitor or not) a chance to INSTANTLY win a DGA Mach II New Portable Basket. During the qualifying round of the Basket Toss Off at CSI, the INWS will award one basket to any player that throws an Ace. There will however only be one basket awarded per event. We will also qualify ten throws at CSI for the basket toss off at the INWS Finals (Flippen Ze Disc).

After all that stink about the pro payout (Thanks Tennesee:pullhair:) at FZD last year the TD has mentioned that Barsby may show for the finals again this year. Greg must not have been too unhappy:biggrin2: with the payout.

[LJ Jubner]

Instant Win I wish I had thought of that.


I think someone explained to him that all TD's hope to sell out and base there promises on that assumption.

[LJ Jubner]

Sorry Jub for pointing this out, but now that I'm 40, perhaps my eyes are going bad, but "Intitational"?:

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=9764.

Hey at least it made it onto the schedule when it was first submitted

and

It's not your eye-sight you need to worry about. Like the disclaimer says ..."if you lose sight or hearing, stop taking the little blue pill and call your doctor right away". says it all

Here's an over 50 joke for ya
What kind of underwear do men over 50 wear?
Boxers or briefs? Depends.

[LakeStevensBA]

I'm looking forward to seeing the trophies that will be awarded for the "InviTITional".....just something to chew on....:whistler:

[LJ Jubner]

I'm looking forward to seeing the trophies that will be awarded for the "InviTITional".....just something to chew on....:whistler:

Actually they will be trophies for everyone but first place. Either passifiers or disposable baby bottles. I can't decide.

[LJ Jubner]

Registration update

CSI is currently full. pDGA site listed Invited players need to respond by Sunday March 21st to confirm your spot.

Monday March 22nd at noon player list will be updated.

For all of you who have paid I will delete non attending players and post names accordingly.

As always if your invited payment insures your play. If you want to chance the list pre pay moves you to the top.

[LJ Jubner]

Four vendors are signed up for CSI weekend.

That's right, I have arranged for 4 different vendors to offer their products for sale all weekend and then scrip on Sunday.

J & J Plastic, ChainbangerZ, Big Sky Discs and INWS store will all be available for your shopping pleasure. There might even be one more or two more.

I also know of a second season long promotion (besides the best ever "The Instant Win") that will be announced soon.

The way the list will work is

I will drop the number to 90 (Max field). If it goes below that I will add from the waiting list. Currently there are an additional 20+ players on the waiting list. Some really good local talent and some talent from far far away.

[Gordy #21004]

I also know of a second season long promotion (besides the best ever "The Instant Win") that will be announced soon....
The Mach 2 New portables are in hand and I have fronted for them myself in order save on individual shipping and to assure everyone that the Instant Win Basket will be on hand at CSI. We are still fishing for about 5 more Instant Win sponsors @ about $100 ea. to cover the purchase cost. If you would like to be part of the Instant Win sponsorship we would be glad, of course, to give you a lot of high profile mention for your support. Please call me (509-363-1056) or Bob (509-991-1807). I'm pretty sure that the 2nd promotion Jubby speaks of is the powder coated Mach 5 as the prize in season-long "Golden Ticket" raffle. Arrangements have been made to have the Powder Blue Baby on display at the CSI. However it will be kept under wraps in order for it to be paid-out at the Finals drawing in mint condition. The INWS Golden Ticket coupons will be for sale at each 2010 INWS event. I'm sure this will be a popular promotion as 100% of the proceeds from this effort will go towards the Qualified Finalist's purses. We will keep the INWS thread updated on what the running accrued value is. Gordy:trophy:

[LJ Jubner]

I heard it was going to be Orange not Blue.

Who ponyed up for the raffle prize?

Do you have to attend an event to purchase said tickets?

[GettinBetter]

Man the open is STACKED!!! I wish I could be in town for this one...

[LJ Jubner]

pDGA site updated.

4Th Vendor added. Stimpi Ridge.

For those of you on the wait list I will try and notify the out of townees ASAP so you can make travel arrangements. Thanks for your patience.

Red shirts, Micro putt trophies, two great INWS promotions, course raffle and DGA test drive. I might have to add another day just for the promos.

I would consider splitting weekends next year but the double dipping national fees are a killer.

[Yoduh]

Well Jubby.. I called you 3 times in 3 days and never got a response from you but left you 3 messages about my interest in playing the CSI. A couple days later I told Ed Dopplemiar about the rapid filling of your tourney and he said oh crap I better call. You again didn't answer and he left you a message too. 4 days later one of his friends from the tri-citys called and said hey whats your ride for the tourney and he said I'm not sure I'm in and his friend said your on the list. Strange seeing that I should have been on the list before him
I must say you are using some interesting communication techniques here and also some alternative methods for filling events. Maybe you can enlighten us on the internet seeing as how you can't explain over the phone what is going on, Thanks Jeremy

:seeya:

[LJ Jubner]

I can tell you I have one spot open but it's kind'a pricey. For a $500 contribution (Title Sponsorship) you would get one complimentary entry. Interested?

As you know Jeremy CSI is an Invitational. Ed has played all of them. The fact that Big Mike scolded me at the 4 Player the first weekend in March that Ed wanted in put him ahead of you on the list. By the way He was the first added name last Monday.

When CSI is announced The Invitational responses limit how many each division will allow by how quickly each fills up. I normally like to send the Open groups out as 5's, When the event is R.S.V.P full (and before the Sat malay) I only add players in the same fields trying to keep the groups/divisions numerically the same. Now on Sat and if there are openings I will take whomever's "GOT Cash" till it's "SOLD OUT".

I have players from Cincinnati, Boise, Missoula, Portland and several Canadians all hoping to get in. That does not even address the dozen or so locals who are also still clinging to that glimmer hope.

My best advice to anyone not in the 2010 CSI take your chances on a Sat entry and come out. I will do what the course allows me to do.

[Yoduh]

As for the $500 added thing, that comment makes it seem as if you do have room for an added spot. If nobody steps up does that mean I'm in? We just played an "A" tier in Sacremento that had 4 ghost groups on it. (One group with ED in it was thrown in the very last minute) With the amount of Par 4's you have you could easily do the same thing.. Say on hole one for instance. There is a hole that plays fairly quickly and a hole behind it that plays fairly slow.. One group added.. I'm in again! So I see 2 easy ways to make it in without having to drive accross the state with my fingers crossed wondering if I'm gonna make it in over someone else who has played 5 CSI's to my 4. I have placed top 3 in every INWS series and ED has never played enough to qualify. So by that random fact I deserve to be in.. I like your random and very creative selection process.
I am just happy that at least I am getting some communication going with ya.. I thought you were missing :cop: Guess I need to get an internet phone so I can use something more conveniant than those darn annoying tedious phones! :bricks:

[LJ Jubner]

Drive and Hope: Now that's old school kinda like the wink and point then "I will pay you later" pre registration method.

Actually the $500 bucks would silence the rest of the field about the ghost group. As far as Sacto goes that was an "Open Only Field" and a much easier course then SeaTac especially for said skill level.


CSI has been listed online since the middle of Jan. The original flyer limited the field to 72 and I alone allowed it to go to 90. Habitually speaking Ams sign up really early and most Open are procrastinators To illustrate my point

Look at BSF the Am pool has sold out TWICE with a waiting list a mile long. The Open field is still 20 some players short of even selling out once.

Now because of your late decision to try and play I am supposed to increase it again. I think not. I have never ever liked ghosts groups (same with added holes and or pools) and will never offer them especially at the Tac. In my experience it backs up the course INSTANTLY and is just another way for the TD to increase the events total numbers.

I believe over capacity events inhibit the quality and experience of ALL it's participants. The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few or the one!

[Wobbly Bob]

Habitually speaking Ams sign up really early and most Open are procrastinators.

Jub, don't you mean PROcrastinators?:jumpspin:

[LJ Jubner]

Jub, don't you mean PROcrastinators?:jumpspin:

Swung on and Belterd! DEEP! It's! It's by by baby!

[Yoduh]

All I am really asking is that you sign people up in the order they call instead of contriving some sort of last second rule only that applies to 2 participants in your head. It isn't right and it looks really bad. :slapface:

Speaking of the BSF how would your tactics apply to signing up people who want to participate in that event. I'm sure the PDGA would LOVE IT!! :pullhair:

Next year if you want to do voodoo sign up, have it go for the whole entire event and wait till 3 weeks before the event and let people who have played the most CSI's into the event first. :jumpspin:

[RonTheWhip]

CAN'T WAIT for this weekend, first time playing SeaTac and first CSI ever!

[The Ombudsman]

CAN'T WAIT for this weekend, first time playing SeaTac and first CSI ever!
You my friend, are in for a real treat!
The course is SWEET right now!
Bring all of your shots because you will use them all...

[LJ Jubner]

All I am really asking is that you sign people up in the order they call instead of contriving some sort of last second rule only that applies to 2 participants in your head. It isn't right and it looks really bad. :slapface:

Speaking of the BSF how would your tactics apply to signing up people who want to participate in that event. I'm sure the PDGA would LOVE IT!! :pullhair:

Next year if you want to do voodoo sign up, have it go for the whole entire event and wait till 3 weeks before the event and let people who have played the most CSI's into the event first. :jumpspin:

I have always used the same criteria for adding players once CSI fills.

As far as order goes you mentioned the phone I have gotten emails, PM, Paypal notes and yes even standing right in front of me. So maybe by relying on only one of them is not going to be enough anymore.

BSF I am not implying anything here about the BSF

my point was in general and on the whole open players tend to wait till the last minute and then expect to get in. Now assuming the pDGA even cares how the waiting list works. Personally I won't cash anyones check before I know they are in.

Again no slight intended, or implied to the BSF.

Voodoo
75% of the original invitees were personal friends of Dan's. Pender was Dans favorite event every year. The Montana players have always supported CSI (inaugural one was sponsored by Big Sky that $500 thing) so that's why they get first crack. 1000 rated players also get early RSVP access. Dave, Brody, Big Mike are all past champions. Nate, Dion, Chandler recently relocated Kyle are all great young talent and I am happy to have them.
I always have a strong ladies contingent (across all divisions) but wish more could come.
This years ADV Men has some up and comers. Jamie, D Major, B Parson and Jon Wills all played well at Bob West. Some players stepping up like Rahn, K Baker playing with their "true potential" peers.

Oh and my friends

But what it really comes down too is? Open players are the draw not the reward.

[TYVEK]

personally i really like the "invitational" aspect of this tournament because it really ensures that there will some spectacular players here. for those that are not able to play or just want to watch, it gives them a great showing of disc golf skills on a great course. keep up the good work Jub. hopefully becca and i can make it up there for some spectating this weekend.

[LJ Jubner]

Hey thats a good idea if you can't play come on out and watch some WCP in action.

and don't forget your Yauger Bomb

[DMajor]

Yeah the pro lead card on Sunday is guaranteed to be good. Is there a final nine this year?

[TYVEK]

Yeah the pro lead card on Sunday is guaranteed to be good. Is there a final nine this year?

with all the huge talent at this years tournament, i think that there really really needs to be a final nine so everybody can watch these guys play!
it sucks when your playing in a tournament and there is no final nine so you never get a chance to see the top players actually playing, because they are playing at the same time you are.

[LJ Jubner]

Thats why I have exhibition skins. Take the top 4-5 players and let em really play for the added cash

[Yoduh]

You had a lot more ladies the year before but I heard you decided last minute to change them into an am ladies division.. That's a good way to go from 9 women to 5 with only 3 returning.
I realize there are alot of ways to fill a tournament but its pretty easy to know that you are getting passed over when you are the one that told somebody they needed to try and get in well after you have already tried. Don't think I've EVER heard of this before..
Anyone on the Forum ever hear of such a practice?


I only met Dan a few times but I had a great time playing a round with him on one occasion. I also have to say the Cool shoes baskets we have at Downriver are my favorite baskets to putt on, to bad you guys don't hold this tournament on a course that is filled with baskets that Dan built with his hands.. I always laugh when people show up to play downriver and they miss low and get sling shot off of the rim cause there aren't any nubs.. I really dislike nubs

[LJ Jubner]

Well Jeremy It's too bad you feel you are being passed over. You can whine about how the ladies field went from 9 last year to 7 this year. But it's still your tardiness that is keeping you from this years event. You mentioned you called from Bob West Right? How long in advance did you sign up for it? Better Yet are you already signed up for 2011?*

CSI has been on this thread since DEC 19TH 2009 and nationally since early Jan

Was this not enough time? I can tell you next years CSI is going to be on the first weekend in April.


My idea for low entry fee was documented and announced well in advance on the flyer. The idea was to try and encourage more ladies to play in general and players to play more for fun and less for competition. Is'nt it convenient that you only mentioned the ladies and their lower entry fees in "09". When in fact I also lowered the Age protected Ams to the same level. In the end by lowering said fees I forfeited the payout for 24 Am's. AND you neglected to mention the extended players packs each Reduced Entry player received.

* not saying CSI is anything like Bob West, just they are both early season events and will sell out. CSI is the first sanctioned event in the state.

This rant aside I do feel sorry for the rest of those who really wanted to play. I feel sorry for the players who just moved here and are getting shut out!

Like I said before I'd split weekends but the double fees are a killer.

[ChUcK]

I'm pretty stoked for CSI, and I'm not even playing the thing... Dan's right, the lead (and 2nd) cards on Sunday will have some heavy-hitting action.

Any predictions for the lead card Sunday?

I bet it will be Nate, Big Mike, Brody, and either Feldberg or Crabtree. It's really hard to say though, because of all the locals who are more comfortable with Seatac than the touring pros. It very well could be a Big Mike, Waugh, Cain, and Werth fending off the top spots from the foreign devils.

[LJ Jubner]

I don't think we need to wait till the third round! I bet the fireworks are early and often.

[JasonVP]

I think Kenny Clark has a real good chance of upseting some of the big guns to watch out for him if he is on his game this weekend.

[LJ Jubner]

Yeah! The winner could come from 3rd name on 2nd card or even the 1st/3rd by Sunday afternoon.

[DMajor]

Lead card Sunday Prediction-Feldberg-Sexton-Leslie-Crabtree-Miller In that order

[JasonVP]

Jub are you getting any cfr discs this year?

[Yoduh]

I called before someone on the list.. well before. I told that person to call in fact.

As for the ladies I was told that you refunded part of one of the ladies entries by that person (after they had paid a full $50-60) and they drove 8 hours not knowing they were battling over a trophy having already earned their payout with a players pack. If I was misinformed than I do apologize but I heard it straight from the horses.. I mean pony's mouth. There are only 5 pro women down from 9 a year ago on your pdga list.

Maybe you could afford to pay for double sanctioning fees if you weren't paying for a certain somebody's entry fee into said tournament.. :nono:
If there were 15 more pros signed up that person would show up anyway because there would be alot more money to be won. :chinscratch: You could spend that money on sanctioning.. I will even sponsor a hole next year if you split the weekends.

Maybe you would get alot more players and the fees wouldn't seem as big. Maybe you get alot more pro's and the payouts would be fatter. Maybe you would get alot more spectators and it would make your tournament into more of a spectacle. Maybe the rounds would go way faster and the players would shoot better and have more fun and you could cap it at 72 and avoid huge backups.

[LJ Jubner]

I called before someone on the list.. well before. I told that person to call in fact. [QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Yoduh;59542][As for the ladies I was told that you refunded part of one of the ladies entries by that person (after they had paid a full $50-60) and they drove 8 hours not knowing they were battling over a trophy having already earned their payout with a players pack. If I was misinformed than I do apologize but I heard it straight from the horses.. I mean pony's mouth. There are only 5 pro women down from 9 a year ago on your pdga list..

Thats true I wish it were not so but it is. Sarah has a new house, Lesli is helping a friend move. KBG and Mouse are both MIA
[Maybe you could afford to pay for double sanctioning fees if you weren't paying for a certain somebody's entry fee into said tournament.. :nono:
If there were 15 more pros signed up that person would show up anyway because there would be alot more money to be won. :chinscratch: You could spend that money on sanctioning. I will even sponsor a hole next year if you split the weekends.

All true just not this year

[Maybe you would get alot more players and the fees wouldn't seem as big. Maybe you get alot more pro's and the payouts would be fatter. Maybe you would get alot more spectators and it would make your tournament into more of a spectacle. Maybe the rounds would go way faster and the players would shoot better and have more fun and you could cap it at 72 and avoid huge backups.

Some good ideas for Next year
but
Why cap them? You already said the more Opens the better, Right? And you won't be around for the Am weeelend, Right? So the only people really penalized are the mixed groups or couples that travel togther. If you ask me thats the problem with splits you don't get to see your friends.

[Yoduh]

I noticed you had lots to say but you never said anything about..
[quote=Yoduh;59542]I called before someone on the list.. well before. I told that person to call in fact. [quote]
Nobody has offered you $500 yet so there should be a spot.

[LakeStevensBA]

I see Steve Rolling is still registered as playing. Jub, I think he has been trying to reach you to let you know he won't be playing this weekend.

[Bullseye]

I see Steve Rolling is still registered as playing. Jub, I think he has been trying to reach you to let you know he won't be playing this weekend.


Hey Yodah,

After you got your name on the wait list, did you call anyone else telling them to call for a spot? If so, you might want to let them know they're in too

:biggrin2:

[sillybizz]

I noticed you had lots to say but you never said anything about..
[quote=Yoduh;59542]I called before someone on the list.. well before. I told that person to call in fact. [quote]
Nobody has offered you $500 yet so there should be a spot.

If you ever want to BE INVITED (hence Cool Shoes INVITATIONAL) for CSI you might want to stop all of this whining right about now, just my piece of advice to you.

[Rolly]

I am just happy to be playing. Although I paid in and signed up for advanced I was placed in am2. IF we take care of it Jub, thanks.. I will come and talk to you personally about this matter..The course is looking great.. And Thanks to all that helped..With that being said... If there is issues with how a TD runs things, the best thing to do is boycott it or start your own tourney..I have no paitence for people who feel they "deserve" to play. Unless you paid to play, and didn't get in, I feel there should be no crying about it. Though I see where they are coming from, and I'm sure I'd feel frustrated and confused too, but I would be pro active about the matter rather then spinning my wheels in anger.

[PuttsRrad]

Why doesn't YODAH spend their time complaining about Spokane Tournaments where he is more likely to find faults? Why come to this thread and start spouting this Cr*p? Knock it off Yodah! :rolleyes2:

[LJ Jubner]

Thanks BA but Rollings spot went to a B hammer. I will update nationally tonight.

[JasonVP]

Well just a heads up jub Jake won't beable to make it.

[Wobbly Bob]

Why doesn't YODAH spend their time complaining about Spokane Tournaments where he is more likely to find faults? Why come to this thread and start spouting this Cr*p?

If you've never been to a Spokane tournament you don't know what you're missing.

[killa]

If you've never been to a Spokane tournament you don't know what you're missing.

Agreed. I've only played one tourney in Spokane - LCO '08... and to this day, it is the best event I have ever played in the state. Multiple courses, exceptionally organized, a Big Sky keg while we waited for awards, and they even mailed out booklets ahead of time to people who pre-registered with course maps, hole descriptions, the schedule for the weekend, sponsor info, etc... all for a B-TIER!! Spokane also has a robust local club that takes some of the burden off TDs and allows them to focus on what they do best. I'd say that's their secret weapon.

that Lilac City Open is the bar by which I measure WA tournaments. Great job Wobbly Bob, Gordy and crew. So stoked to finally come back this summer!

[olydiscgolf]

Why doesn't YODAH spend their time complaining about Spokane Tournaments where he is more likely to find faults? Why come to this thread and start spouting this Cr*p? Knock it off Yodah! :rolleyes2:

LCO 4 years in a row, this will be #5! I'd check your source before spouting about Spokompton tourneys! Like Killa said....they set the bar!

[kokaneeninja]

If you've never been to a Spokane tournament you don't know what you're missing.
No kidding, Bob and Gordy know what they're doing!!! I've never had a tourney come close to LCO!!! So I suppose compared to LCO I should complain about the rest of the tourneys!!! LCO is the only tourney I'm even going to play this year... hats of to you fellas over the Mts, can't wait!!!

[Snooskie Longhorn]

Response to the quote: "No kidding, Bob and Gordy know what they're doing!!! I've never had a tourney come close to LCO!!! So I suppose compared to LCO I should complain about the rest of the tourneys!!! LCO is the only tourney I'm even going to play this year... hats of to you fellas over the Mts, can't wait!!"

Shout out to Stimpi too! Is he going to beat up on the Grandmasters?

Due to weather, the bench for Hole # 8 is not ready. I couldn't apply the weather proofing at this time. It's coming though.

Wish I could play, but work calls.

Can't wait to see the results.

[DMajor]

Tomorrow I have two dates with the same girl.

We have been seeing each other off and on for awhile now. She's pretty but not in the drop dead gorgeous sort of way. She's the kind of girl who's personality and beauty compliment each other perfectly. The longer you know her the more attractive she becomes.

I have to admit when I first met her I was a little intimidated. She has an edge to her that you don't normally come across. Our first few dates didn't go so well. I had fun but I came away with the feeling that things should have gone way better.

Since then we have grown alot more comfortable with each other but I am still waiting to take that next big step if you know what I mean. Most days I feel like I know everything about her. Other days it's as awkard as one of our first dates. If I treat her with respect and let it happen naturally everything should be just fine.

But there's no gaurantees with this girl. Maybe that's why I love her so much. I just have to try my best and hope things turn out okay.




And I definitely can't forget my rubbers.....





Cause it might be a wet one tomorrow!

[KCrabtree]

Dan the man

[cefire]

Dude, watch out because when you least expect it - everything is rolling along and you think you are about to "cash in", she might totally b-slap you!

Being spring and all, I think you are just suffering from twitterpation, it should get better soon when the trees fill in but don't say I didn't warn you...

[Yoduh]

I don't think you actually read all of my posts and Jub's posts. I called and left him 3 messages on 3 cosectutive days.. He never called or said anything. 2 days after I called Jub I called Ed Dopplemyr and told him he had better call soon. He called that day and left Snub, I mean Jub a message. A week later he found out he was in. He told me and we assumed we were in too as did he. When I got off the road I realized I wasn't. Tried calling him twice and told him I would air it out on the forum if he didn't call a couple days later I wrote about the Snub Scam Jub tried to pull. Thinking that Ed and I didn't talk he decided to let Ed in first. WHO FILLS TOURNEYS THIS WAY? :nono:
Then he tells me I can get in by paying $500. Extortion makes me sick :puke:

[Yoduh]

So Snub calls me today around 1:00 pm to let me know that somebody else has gotten into this event and that I am now the 1st person on the waiting list in the open division and he will call me if I'm in or I can come and take my chances on Saturday morning.. Wow Jub knows how to use a phone. I think his list is pretend at best. I couldn't think of a better way to spend my time than driving 5 hours to arrive in Seattle in the dark to wake up and see if I make it in.. It's safe to say Snub I won't be making it into any of your Scams anytime in the next century, but hey I am looking forward to 2100

[catalystdg]

i have never played this tourney ( being that it is an invitational and i have never, to my knowledge received an invitation) but from what i've heard from people that have played it is that is is a love it/ hate it style of tourney. I can sympathize with yoduh being that he is a close friend and from what i understand he is most upset with the lack of communication and the feeling that he was intentionally singled out( with knowing jub and yoduh i do not daught) but i also know that every tourney i have ever played is geared towards a certain demografic and you will never please everyone. in my( not always so humble ;) ) opinion td's need to fucus on either the pro's or the am - casual pro's and let the players decide what tourneys to play. LCO and City Cup are both excelent tourneys but are both devinately geared towards the am level players so if you are looking for a great pro tourney either don't play or don't complain and just have some fun. i think to many players go to a tourney and throw a fit when it is not run specifically for them, most td's do a good job at something most people are unwilling to do and then they get no thanks, so wether or not i played your tourney... thanks :). I personally won't play the tourneys i don't care for like LCO and City Cup but i still apretiate the work of Bob and Gordy and i thank them for their efforts. So getting back on track, i think players have to understand the work that td's put in and that not every tourney is going to go the way you want it. and td's should try to be more communicative of how things are being run.
sorry for my little rant
Christopher Re'

[Toby Puttzinski]

I ,too, was appalled to see Yoduh calling out Jub on how he was running things... you don't see Jub on here questioning how others go about their business, do you?:chinscratch:

It turned out that I'd have gotten in with no problem as there were multiple no-shows, but I had already changed my mind & decided Easter egg hunting on Sunday was more important...(and watching the Bulldogs and Dukies win today)

While I understand the 'invitational' aspect, it would seem to me that once the event joins a 'series', there'd be some obligation to follow the series rules(or implied rules of fairness) of that particular 'series'... just my $.02.


Can anyone give us an update on the leaders in their respective divisions?
I'm also curious as to how Kyle Crabtree's first round turned out, as he was five down(I believe) through 14, and still had 1-3 left for bogey erasing purposes.

[Darrin M]

Kyle's first round he had a bogey on 17 and a double on 18 I believe. The second round I caddied for him, he shot 2 down again and bogeyed holes 3 and 12 and birdied 1,2 parked 4 and 8. Kyle had 3's on the last 6 making it look easy. He holds a 2 shot lead over Feldberg. Good Luck Kyle

[PuttsRrad]

Don't play Jubs Tournies Yodah. For God's sake! Take a CHILL pill.:explode:

[Wobbly Bob]

LCO and City Cup are both excelent tourneys but are both devinately geared towards the am level players so if you are looking for a great pro tourney either don't play or don't complain and just have some fun. Christopher Re'

LCO and City Cup were the second and third highest paying tournaments for the Pros in Washington State last year. What more would the pros like, free food, free beer?

[catalystdg]

LCO and City Cup were the second and third highest paying tournaments for the Pros in Washington State last year. What more would the pros like, free food, free beer?

it really has nothing to do with the payout for me ( sure i like getting cash) its the flow and time of the tourney. any time you have pros and ams on a course like fourmound or sea-tac there will be a large time diverence between when the pros get done and when the ams get done and a lot of waiting on each hole, this is in no way a td's fault but for me personally i don't like waiting 3-4 hours between rounds or 5-10 min on each tee. Unfortunately disc golf is not my first priority and i have to consider the time i spend at a tourney. again i think the td's do a good job and i am grateful

[ericedge]

I posted a few PHOTOS (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgepix/sets/72157623767332444/detail/) from Saturday's second round. The light wasn't great but a bit of photoshoping goes a long way.

[ChUcK]

I had a good time watching Kyle's run at a tourney record yesterday, first round. That double-bogey in 18 hurt my soul a little. KC, quit playing 18 so long- you really need to layup that dog-leg shorter than you've been doing.

[GettinBetter]

I am glad to here you are playing good Kyle, I knew you had it in you! Continue to play your game and bring it home!

I am also anxious to see how my other friends are doing in Open and Advanced. I can't call or text very much right now because I am in Israel and it costs a lot of money to use my phone and text. See you guys when I get home Thursday and can't wait to here some tourney stories.

[MOB47]

Those pictures are awesome. Anyone have the scores? :biggrin2:

[Cajun]

Anyone wanna make a prediction? Any drastic moves today?

[Eric whippet Brown]

The 9 hole skins was a good show of some nice golf, Dion out drove 17 by 15' for a easy skin. Ming won most of the skins with some nice shots and a kick ass 75' jump putt on hole 7 and Dion parked hole 7 but after that putt from ming he just layed up under the basket and let ming win the last hole, that was some cool sportsmanship right there. Feldberg took 1st Kyle 2nd Big Mike took 3rd place in the tourney. All in all it was a good tourney I had fun even with some of my worst rounds in a long time, but seatac is not an easy course.

[Rolly]

the skins round was pretty explosive. Feldberg with a amazing drive on 14. Then Dion actually overdriving 17 but not by much. Yes he made the putt.. Ming made some great putts to win some big holes.

[ChUcK]

Jub, if you're reading this, get off the forums and get those scores up!

I can't recall exactly, but I think Melody King took the Women's Open...

[ericedge]

I added about 30 more pictures taken during Sunday's final nine skins match starting near the bottom of THIS PAGE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgepix/sets/72157623767332444/detail/?page=4).

[Yoduh]

My message would have never hit this forum if I would have gotten a phone call. There was a 3 day window (not to mention the 2 week window before) in which I waited for a phone call meanwhile I keep seeing posts on a daily basis by the TD. I figured I might see a wait list on the forum as Stimpi Steve did for the DRO. Either of these things would have kept me calm but the $500 comment did the exact opposite. I have not called anybody out on a forum for a LONG time (by my watch it was probably 02 or 03, I have been tempted) I have seen how divisive it is and how it often worsens problems. I learned a long time ago that if you take the extra step and make a phone call you can really get all the questions you have answered and actually communicate. Also you have much better communication than you can have staring at the computer trying to read between the lines. I would have been way less concerned if I lived over in the Seattle Tacoma area. But for me I cannot just twitch my nose and be at the event. It takes planning and a serious commitment. I have to say if I run an event and somebody doesn't show up I am putting their money into the event if a) they didn't call 24 hours before or b) them or their family didn't have a life threatening emergency. If I put the time and effort into an event I want as many people possible there to enjoy the fruits of my labors.

In counting up the number of players at this event that actually compete in the INW series and the aspect that it is an invitational it does not make any sense that it is a series event. Not to mention the fact that geographically it doesn't make sense (well I guess 10 miles inland is in land) but then again we have our city cup well out of the city, I don't even think it's in Spokane county.. Geography is a tough subject! :wink2:

I have TD'd big pdga events before and I do know how difficult it is to pull them off flawlessly. IMPOSSIBLE! Things will go wrong and people will complain but one thing golfers need to realize and take heed of. If you have a bitch try to wait 3 or 4 days after the event and let the TD cool off a bit and then try and phrase it in a constructive way like, Hey I had an awesome time at your event.. I really liked...One of the things I thought could work better next time is.. or one problem I noticed was.. TD's out there treat their tourney's like their baby's. They nurture, they care for them and when they get dirty they have to scramble to clean it up. SO when you bark at a TD heatedly about THEIR baby just think how they feel. Nobody wants to listen to somebody talk crap about their baby, they are gonna get defensive, possibly rude and they might just quit TDing all together. Not good, last time I checked golfers are popping up like weeds and TD's are growing like Redwoods. We do need to treat TD's with kid gloves. WE can be help by pointing out all of the good things that way they keep coming back and get better.

I do apologize to Jub for getting a little to animated and frustrated with the situation, I could have handled it better. Hope to never have to use the internet for this sort of situation ever again.

[LJ Jubner]

I added about 30 more pictures taken during Sunday's final nine skins match starting near the bottom of THIS PAGE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgepix/sets/72157623767332444/detail/?page=4).

Thanks for coming out Edge! The pics are great. and Yes Photoshop made it look so much brighter then it actually was. As a giveaway CSI provided scorecard protectors, Maybe next year Sunscreen or sunglasses.

As always I will try to have the online stuff up by the middle of the week. and then the evaluation process begins. I have taken the suggestions offered here as constructive criticism and will give each of them the attention/consideration they deserve.

It's too bad there is not an online Tourney Evaluation site.



Why was CSI in the Inland Series?

Well, The first reason is selfish. I seem to make only 3 of the 4 needed to qualify but by hosting I might actually qualify this year.

Second: I get such strong support from East side players I felt like they should be rewarded for their efforts for attending.

Third: I wanted to encourage more West sider's that the INWS was well worth the effort.

AND FZD is off the hook. Qualify or not you better pre pre pre reg (PAY) for it. Or you'll be sorry!

Anyway thanks to all who attended, I am sorry for those that did not get in and disapointed by the ones who no showed. Even ending up in the ditch did not stop some players.

Side note Johnny Mac is in the hospital, Not sure why but get well soon!!!

[all2common]

I ,too, was appalled to see Yoduh calling out Jub on how he was running things... you don't see Jub on here questioning how others go about their business, do you?:chinscratch:

Wait...what? Really?

[snap7times]

It's too bad there is not an online Tourney Evaluation site.



http://www.pdga.com/documents/event-evaluation-form


I will have these on hand at my own tournament in May so I don't come off as a hypocrite. ;)

[RonTheWhip]

I posted a few PHOTOS (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edgepix/sets/72157623767332444/detail/) from Saturday's second round. The light wasn't great but a bit of photoshoping goes a long way.

Thanks for the pics Eric! You never cease to amaze me!

[DMajor]

Thanks for putting on a great tournament Jub. You and Guy were out there busting your ass the last couple weeks to get that course into great shape. And thanks to everybody else who helped out working on the course and volunteering your time during and before the event.

Let's get more of the people who play it alot to some regular work parties so we can keep the course in great shape for the rest of the season!

[KCunique]

I would also like to Thank Jub.. CSI was a success. Even though I didn't play as well as I would have liked, I had a blast all 3 rounds because of the people.

I still can't believe Dion's monster drive on hole 17 during the skins final 9. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. crazy.

[ChUcK]

360 monster anhyzer, went all the way around the tall trees, panned out flat then bounced by the tree and by the bucket, maybe 20' past at most? That was insane.

Hah, I remarked to Bill as we walked down 18's fairway, I was worried that we might go all weekend without seeing someone out drive 17 again...

My favorite was Dion's putt on 7. I think we all had our fill of disc golf right then, and having the weekend end with Ming's monster was the way to go. It was a 15 dollar sacrifice, and a classy end to the tournament.

[LakeStevensBA]

when do the results get posted?

[LJ Jubner]

http://www.pdga.com/documents/event-evaluation-form


I will have these on hand at my own tournament in May so I don't come off as a hypocrite. ;)

Yeah Snap that form looks like they spent a lot of time developing it. It's too bad that the pDGA does not spend as much time and effort on post event evaluations (actually making the sport better) as they spend on the player ratings. But I suppose ratings get more people involved then evaluations would.

[Bullseye]

Yeah Snap that form looks like they spent a lot of time developing it. It's too bad that the pDGA does not spend as much time and effort on post event evaluations (actually making the sport better) as they spend on the player ratings. But I suppose ratings get more people involved then evaluations would.

Sheesh Jub,

Could ya stop bashing the PDGA long enough to post the results. :p

[DMajor]

Looks like the conditions and field increased the normal ratings quite a bit

[Sean Phillips]

Looks like the SSA is about a whole stroke higher than last year. That would make sense to me. I remember last year being really nice. This year had a lot of wind and a little rain here and there.

[RonTheWhip]

Looks like the par 60 layout at Adair and SeaTac played about the same in terms of average score and ratings...cool :)

[ChUcK]

Sounds like more proof that SeaTac should be a par-60 course.

[DMajor]

I think it is pretty obvious that six of the last 7 holes at Seatac are unreachable off the tee (unless you are a freak and can drive 17). But I love playing the course as all par threes. If it was a par 60 I would have shot under par long ago. As a par 54 I have yet to shoot par or better and I absolutely love the challenge of having to play a near perfect round to shoot par.

[LJ Jubner]

I have had lots of lobbing on both sides I am going to submit the stroke averages of 500+ rounds of SeaTac Tournament play to the pDGA and let them decide.

Open Men AVG is 57.91, 2.36, 3.18, 2.48, 3.45, 2.77, 3.19 3.02, 3.22, 2.81, 2.76, 3.37, 3.24, 3.43, 3.05, 3.52, 4.08, 3.87, 4.11

ADV 65.43
Chuck (My stats guru) when do you want this years cards?

[olydiscgolf]

Hole 18 only averages 4.11! That hole seems more tough than that.

[Yoduh]

14 is 3.05? did it get put in an easier pin or did some silly trees get removed.. We all play golf correct? Don't we all call it golf? Or does everybody call it Disc golf all the time... The reason I ask this is because in the other golf there are par 4's and 5's and I've never heard of any resistance like I do from Disc golfers.. They even have 2able par 4's in golf! They have tough par 4's and easier par 5's and everything in between. If the hole consistantly takes 2 really good shots to get onto the green I don't think it matters if the hole is 430'. So I gotta say here nice eagle on 17 Dion! Or I should shrug my shoulders and mope because I took a drop in bogey (4) on the 1,150 hole last year at the BSF. ;)

[DMajor]

Hole 3=2.48 Hole 10=2.76?

14=3.05??

18 Sounds about right

[LJ Jubner]

Remember these are just the Open Men Averages

#18 ADV #1 Handicap @ 4.5
#18 AM Age #2 @ 4.81 (#16 is #1 Cap @ 5.16)
#18 AM II # 4 @4.30 (#12 is #1 Cap @ 5)

Now in the Summer it's different
Open #1 Cap is #16 @ 4.24 AVG Score is 54.03
ADV #1 Cap is #15 @ 4.54
Age # 1 Cap is #16 @ 5.16
AM II #1 Cap is # 15 @ 6

[LJ Jubner]

Just to add fuel to the fire ADV Ian Markesson had a 2 on 18 in round 2. Maybe that's the problem DG'rs want to try and use terms that might not fit. Why do we use hyzer not hook or slice? Why do we then try to assign Ball terms to Disc. Technically a hole in one on a par three is an eagle Ace on par 4 is an albatross (same with 2 on a par 5)

[ChUcK]

Jub, we'll get in a round at Seatac sometime, maybe this saturday.

Some of those numbers sound a little wonky. I have heard of one freak deuce on 14 in Seatac's life, and there is no way the average could be that close to the best 'possible' score on the hole (3 throws) for such a difficult hole.

[Tim]

Some of those numbers sound a little wonky.

Hehe, yeah, we all know that #13 is FAR more difficult than either 12 or 14. :D

[cefire]

Just throwing in my 2cents:

Scoring average is NOT = to Par

[LJ Jubner]

Again these are only Open ave and they do change around in the summer because of foliage and stuff.

[LJ Jubner]

Maybe if we ave the 1000's we might get a better picture or just the top 10 (almost half of this years field.)

ChUck I was thinking about Yauger.

[Wobbly Bob]

The Unofficial Results for the Cool Shoes Invitational have been posted at PDGA and at the

Official Inland North West Series Website (http://sites.google.com/site/inwsdiscgolf/home)

and the Inland North West Series points have been calculated.

[Sean Phillips]

I have had lots of lobbing on both sides I am going to submit the stroke averages of 500+ rounds of SeaTac Tournament play to the pDGA and let them decide.

Open Men AVG is 57.91, 2.36, 3.18, 2.48, 3.45, 2.77, 3.19 3.02, 3.22, 2.81, 2.76, 3.37, 3.24, 3.43, 3.05, 3.52, 4.08, 3.87, 4.11

ADV 65.43
Chuck (My stats guru) when do you want this years cards?

Did you sample the entire open field or those open players that are actually pros?

Here are the average scores for the open field (data pulled from pdga.com)

53 53 51
52 52 57
52 60 55
61 57 55
58 58 58
59 56 59
58 57 59
55 60 59
55 56 64
61 59 57
58 64 56
59 59 60
60 63 57
65 60 60
61 59 66
62 64 62
63 63 67
66 66 63
65 63 68
64 66 67
70 59 68
59 67 71
68 67 67
60.17 60.35 61.13

[LJ Jubner]

Thanks BoB for being so speedy.


Clearly, the AVG's I have been quoting do not include this last weekends event. Unfortunately Sean your comparison lacks enough raw data to really offer any kind of real AVG. Maybe once it's included that might change. Sample of only 63 vs 400+ rounds

They do include every Open score from all past CSI's.

I personally believe that (whatever par is at any course), it's how the indivduial player plays against him/herself and the course not this metaphysical thing we try to attach value too and call it par. Par to me should be what the best player would shoot on AVG. By looking at Dave's score Par should be 54. That's why Ball golf uses handicaps to level the course not some "touchy, feely" fuzzy math.

Dave also made the point of how par effects ratings and by raising par it benefits more local players. To what end I am not sure If he beat me by 100 ratings points or just 70 what does it matter. I personally don't need a new math formula to know he kicked my ass (after all I have no excuses and this fresh scorecard to remind me). Nor I should not be surprised that he did given the time and effort he puts forth to be at the level. We are all capable of these goals we just lack the drive so all we have left is the wish we were as good as Dave.

Want to measure yourself against Dave? Step up and pay for the privilege/lesson/smack down to see how you would fare.
The old ball golf axioum applies here:

"It's not how, but how many?"

Want to play like Dave? Practice! Practice! Practice! is what I have to say to you. Be willing
To look HARD at yourself and the game you have AND more importantly don't have.
Seek out advice on how better to improve those short comings
And most importantly put in more time and effort then the next player(s)

That's how you beat a course, any course.

In my opinion.

[all2common]

**

[Sean Phillips]

OH, your average is all the CSI's, that makes a lot of sense now.

Why the rant about Dave??? :confused:

[LJ Jubner]

**

Thats OK I was expecting it. Toby does not spend much time here or ever on odsa

[Toby Puttzinski]

Thats OK I was expecting it. Toby does not spend much time here or ever on odsa

:chinscratch:=sarcasm

[REDFIVE]

Thats OK I was expecting it. Toby does not spend much time here or ever on odsa

I dont go on odsa either because Kaspersky says I am not allowed.

[sillybizz]

I don't even know what odsa is!

[Yoduh]

new guy huh?
Jub par does not mean the average of the top 5 players in the world. 2ing hole 18 is an eagle as well is 2 on 17.. my bad!

[Toby Puttzinski]

Birdie in the books, eagle in your eyes, though I agree that defining 'par' should be revisited in WA, and not by using the Jub loves Dave gauge... but I did get some practice in today like Jub said, and by my calculations, with continued practice every day, I should be able to compete with 'Dave' in about 30 years... of course, we'll both be in our 60's and toting oxygen tanks, so the proverbial 'playing field' will be leveled a bit.
Without a time machine or fountain of youth, most of us will never come close to playing at Dave's level... those words would make more sense directed solely at young talented (& gifted) players such as Chandler Fry, Dion Arlyn, and players of their calibur.

[Wobbly Bob]

What is par?:confused: If you read the PDGA work sheet for figuring Local Player Ratings then PAR is what 1000 rated pros average on the course.:shocked: We ran the numbers using the work sheet for the new People's Park course in Spokane and while we didn't have a 1000 rated pro we did have numerous 850+ rated players to use as propagators. The lowest score of the day was a 49. But after entering all the scores into the work sheet it turns out that the Scratch Scoring Average (SSA) is 43.78. This means that someone that shoots a 54 is rated at 866.:slapface:

Jub is correct about the fact that PAR is a number used to figure handicaps for players that don't play at the 1000 rated level.

[cefire]

Par is also used when players miss holes at the start of a round. You take the hole par and add 4 strokes (usually a 7). If you are playing in a division which averages say 8 or 9 on a difficult par 4 or 5 hole, you may be better off skipping that hole if at the start of your round. This is one real, practical reason why par needs to be assigned on an individual hole basis rather than a scoring average across all holes played (which is the SCRATCH SCORING AVERAGE) - it is not the same as PAR.

Par has nothing to do with figuring out handicaps whatsoever in our system, it is only the scratch scoring average that is put in the formula. See here (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4512). Which is why Dave's rant makes no sense to anyone... :rolleyes2:

When assigning PAR ball golf operates in the same way, i.e. touchy, feely math. Usually, they use some variation of the "best possible score plus 2" or "shots to the green plus one" methods. When assigning handicaps (which are very different), they use a similar system to our SSA based on "scratch" or 0-handicap players.

To me, par should be assigned on an individual hole by hole basis by the lowest possible number of strokes it takes to complete the hole by the top players without a "throw-in", plus one stroke. Defining the distance of a throw-in seems to be the more difficult part. Through that system, we might estimate par 4's on holes 12, 14, 15, 16, & 18 (par 59 course).

If we used the "average" score distribution for the very best players, we'd end up with hole 1 playing as a par 2 hole - which I think MOST of us would think is a bogus (or bogeyus!) :jumpspin: concept.


I still argue that:

Scoring average is NOT = to Par

[LJ Jubner]

To me, par should be assigned on an individual hole by hole basis by the lowest possible number of strokes it takes to complete the hole by the top players without a "throw-in", plus one stroke. Defining the distance of a throw-in seems to be the more difficult part. Through that system, we might estimate par 4's on holes 12, 14, 15, 16, & 18 (par 59 course):

Now if the argument was made it made the lesser players better compared to WCP ie one field and WCP gives strokes then maybe (true handicap)

#12 Mike Cain drove to within 75' Final 9 two CSI's ago 3
#14 Maybe a 4 if you could drive the origional position (why it got moved) easy 3
#15 NO, Drive to hill no problem easy 3
#16 WCP from 90' 2
#18 Big Anny or Open player second pretty easy 3

Throw in what I would consider 3x or more my normal putting effency distance* (personally about 25')

* the distance I make < 80% of putts from

[TYVEK]

as with ball golf par criteria, a par 3 hole has to be reachable from the tee for the chance of a birdie PUTT, not a birdie aproach shot but a PUTT. I have always been fed up with everybody saying that every hole is par 3. oh yeah, maybe if i was chandler then that might be doable, but still not acceptable. we need to get realistic with pars on our courses, and not give the lame excuse of "par 3 makes the math easier" come on and use our brains alittle.

[KG_MCDGC]

as with ball golf par criteria, a par 3 hole has to be reachable from the tee for the chance of a birdie PUTT, not a birdie aproach shot but a PUTT. I have always been fed up with everybody saying that every hole is par 3. oh yeah, maybe if i was chandler then that might be doable, but still not acceptable. we need to get realistic with pars on our courses, and not give the lame excuse of "par 3 makes the math easier" come on and use our brains alittle.



Wow! I think I agree with you, for a change!

[DoubleDees]

The tac is a par 60. Hole 12 and then 14-18 are all legit par 4's.

Everyone plays the same course.

[Wobbly Bob]

To me, par should be assigned on an individual hole by hole basis by the lowest possible number of strokes it takes to complete the hole by the top players without a "throw-in", plus one stroke. Defining the distance of a throw-in seems to be the more difficult part. Through that system, we might estimate par 4's on holes 12, 14, 15, 16, & 18 (par 59 course).

I agree with figuring par that way. The second part of the PDGA spread sheet has a place to enter hole by hole scores. If you only enter scores that match the SSA (ie. 59) then you will get hole averages that are truely the par score for each hole. As with any average the more entries you have the truer your numbers will be.

[GUY]

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm the one who takes care of and coordinates this course), Seatac will always have each hole as a par 3. If you are a world class player, then par for a round is attainable. We designed this course to be one of the toughest in the country. The back 9 is meant to really test your skill. A 1000 rated player has a legitimate shot at par. Every hole at Seatac has been birdied at one time or another. This is really no different than a difficult ball golf course. I've played ball golf for years and all over the state of Washington. If I want a shot at shooting par to boost my ego, I'll play some easy course like Lynnwood, Wayne, or Ballinger. I tend to want to play tough courses like Gold Mountain where you have to have an incredible skill set to even sniff par. I shoot a high number (many strokes over par) at these tough courses but I love the challenge. For example, the ball golf US Open every year is held at a venue where very few world class golfers shoot under par. Seatac will always be damn near impossible for most golfers to shoot par. One of my goals in life is to shoot par at Seatac. It will probably never happen, but it doesn't mean I'll quit trying. If you want to play a course where any Joe SixPack can shoot par that is your business. There is one 15 minutes away from Seatac. It is called Lakewood. A big thanks to Jub for all of his hard work on the Seatac course. Hope to see you all at the 6th annual Jet Wash Open on August 21-22.

[LJ Jubner]

That's that then.

[TYVEK]

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm the one who takes care of and coordinates this course), Seatac will always have each hole as a par 3. If you are a world class player, then par for a round is attainable. We designed this course to be one of the toughest in the country. The back 9 is meant to really test your skill. A 1000 rated player has a legitimate shot at par. Every hole at Seatac has been birdied at one time or another. This is really no different than a difficult ball golf course. I've played ball golf for years and all over the state of Washington. If I want a shot at shooting par to boost my ego, I'll play some easy course like Lynnwood, Wayne, or Ballinger. I tend to want to play tough courses like Gold Mountain where you have to have an incredible skill set to even sniff par. I shoot a high number (many strokes over par) at these tough courses but I love the challenge. For example, the ball golf US Open every year is held at a venue where very few world class golfers shoot under par. Seatac will always be damn near impossible for most golfers to shoot par. One of my goals in life is to shoot par at Seatac. It will probably never happen, but it doesn't mean I'll quit trying. If you want to play a course where any Joe SixPack can shoot par that is your business. There is one 15 minutes away from Seatac. It is called Lakewood. A big thanks to Jub for all of his hard work on the Seatac course. Hope to see you all at the 6th annual Jet Wash Open on August 21-22.

all of what you wrote is complete rubish. wake up and come into reality!

[sillybizz]

Just because you call some of the holes a par four doesn't mean it somehow makes the course easier.

[REDFIVE]

No matter what you call par, 54 or 60, the iron man 54 is what anyone should really care about anyway. yes the course plays as a 60, but if I shot a 60 I would be unhappy. If I shot a 54 I would be satisfied. its all the same, complete the course in the least amount of throws. Why dont we just call 60 the weinie par for seatac and 54 will be the iron man. who's a weinie?

[sillybizz]

who's a weinie?

I am! :seeya:

[JR Stengele]

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm the one who takes care of and coordinates this course), Seatac will always have each hole as a par 3. If you are a world class player, then par for a round is attainable. We designed this course to be one of the toughest in the country. The back 9 is meant to really test your skill. A 1000 rated player has a legitimate shot at par. Every hole at Seatac has been birdied at one time or another. This is really no different than a difficult ball golf course. I've played ball golf for years and all over the state of Washington. If I want a shot at shooting par to boost my ego, I'll play some easy course like Lynnwood, Wayne, or Ballinger. I tend to want to play tough courses like Gold Mountain where you have to have an incredible skill set to even sniff par. I shoot a high number (many strokes over par) at these tough courses but I love the challenge. For example, the ball golf US Open every year is held at a venue where very few world class golfers shoot under par. Seatac will always be damn near impossible for most golfers to shoot par. One of my goals in life is to shoot par at Seatac. It will probably never happen, but it doesn't mean I'll quit trying. If you want to play a course where any Joe SixPack can shoot par that is your business. There is one 15 minutes away from Seatac. It is called Lakewood. A big thanks to Jub for all of his hard work on the Seatac course. Hope to see you all at the 6th annual Jet Wash Open on August 21-22.

Isn't that why there is such a thing called par and pro par? par=59 or 60 and pro par = 54? If your a pro then your a pro, if your an am then your an am, right?

[TYVEK]

who's a weinie?

me too!:cheers: but still a weinie that likes realistic pars, just like ball golf has.

[buckyvania]

me too!:cheers: but still a weinie that likes realistic pars, just like ball golf has.

Hey tyvek what planet are you living on and what are you smoking? What putt putt fantasy courses are you playing? EVERYTHING Guy said is true. If you don't have anything intelligent or constructive to say save your immature comments for your bros

[Cajun]

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm the one who takes care of and coordinates this course), Seatac will always have each hole as a par 3. If you are a world class player, then par for a round is attainable. We designed this course to be one of the toughest in the country. The back 9 is meant to really test your skill. A 1000 rated player has a legitimate shot at par. Every hole at Seatac has been birdied at one time or another. This is really no different than a difficult ball golf course. I've played ball golf for years and all over the state of Washington. If I want a shot at shooting par to boost my ego, I'll play some easy course like Lynnwood, Wayne, or Ballinger. I tend to want to play tough courses like Gold Mountain where you have to have an incredible skill set to even sniff par. I shoot a high number (many strokes over par) at these tough courses but I love the challenge. For example, the ball golf US Open every year is held at a venue where very few world class golfers shoot under par. Seatac will always be damn near impossible for most golfers to shoot par. One of my goals in life is to shoot par at Seatac. It will probably never happen, but it doesn't mean I'll quit trying. If you want to play a course where any Joe SixPack can shoot par that is your business. There is one 15 minutes away from Seatac. It is called Lakewood. A big thanks to Jub for all of his hard work on the Seatac course. Hope to see you all at the 6th annual Jet Wash Open on August 21-22.

You want us to respect the length & the quest for par at SeaTac in all it's alleged glory because it is such a world class challenge? Hmmm....Who respects the baskets at Lake Stevens, or their challenge and the trying quest to figure out how to putt on them? Do you? Similar situation. I feel your pain brotha Guy.

[Cajun]

That's that then.

Oh no that's not that. THAT is!!!:rockon:

(more to come I'm sure)

[LakeStevensBA]

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm the one who takes care of and coordinates this course), Seatac will always have each hole as a par 3. If you are a world class player, then par for a round is attainable. We designed this course to be one of the toughest in the country. The back 9 is meant to really test your skill. A 1000 rated player has a legitimate shot at par. Every hole at Seatac has been birdied at one time or another. This is really no different than a difficult ball golf course. I've played ball golf for years and all over the state of Washington. If I want a shot at shooting par to boost my ego, I'll play some easy course like Lynnwood, Wayne, or Ballinger. I tend to want to play tough courses like Gold Mountain where you have to have an incredible skill set to even sniff par. I shoot a high number (many strokes over par) at these tough courses but I love the challenge. For example, the ball golf US Open every year is held at a venue where very few world class golfers shoot under par. Seatac will always be damn near impossible for most golfers to shoot par. One of my goals in life is to shoot par at Seatac. It will probably never happen, but it doesn't mean I'll quit trying. If you want to play a course where any Joe SixPack can shoot par that is your business. There is one 15 minutes away from Seatac. It is called Lakewood. A big thanks to Jub for all of his hard work on the Seatac course. Hope to see you all at the 6th annual Jet Wash Open on August 21-22.

In my opinion, Guy is dead on correct. Seatac is a course that should remain all par 3's. I think it's great we have a course that only the top players can shoot par. I have no ego problems walking away with being double digits over par there.

I guess I really don't understand this whole controversy. We're all playing the same course. We're all playing for a total score after 18 holes. If you shoot a 60, so what if you shoot par or you shoot 6 over? You shot what you shot!

Peace Out!

[sillybizz]

Who decided it was all par three?

[LakeStevensBA]

Who decided it was all par three?

your mom!

[sillybizz]

Now BA, you know my mother, she would make it all par 15, but she would rather play Lake Stevens.

[REDFIVE]

Who decided it was all par three?

Herm.

[olydiscgolf]

me too!:cheers: but still a weinie that likes realistic pars, just like ball golf has.

Have you ever played ball golf? How many ball golfers do you know that are scratch golfers and shoot even par? Ball golf par is not set for the average golfer to achieve.


Krabtree shooting a 51 at Seatac is like Tiger woods shooting 70 at Augusta!
Not everybody can do it! Not everybody should!

[sillybizz]

Herm.

I've heard that name over and over and yet I have no idea of who that is. I'm guessing he's one of the dinosaurs from the 30 year old Seattle Discfunctional Club that are stuck in their ways.

[Bruce]

Well from what I know of Herm and through small talk with him, dinosaur and discfunctional seems to fit.

[Toby Puttzinski]

I've heard that name over and over and yet I have no idea of who that is. I'm guessing he's one of the dinosaurs from the 30 year old Seattle Discfunctional Club that are stuck in their ways.

You have no idea who he is, or the amount of time/resources he's put into Seatac-- bulldozing acres of blackberries, etc., but you have no problem insulting him... you weinie!

[TYVEK]

Hey tyvek what planet are you living on and what are you smoking? What putt putt fantasy courses are you playing? EVERYTHING Guy said is true. If you don't have anything intelligent or constructive to say save your immature comments for your bros

right back at you BRO! none of my comments have been imature, not like yours. my comments are for trying to get people to come around to using realistic par for courses just like ball golf does. THIS IS STILL GOLF THAT WE PLAY YOU KNOW!!! just with discs. i have NEVER played a ball golf course that is all par 3's!!! why should disc golf be different.

dude, grow up and start thinking with some intellegence.

[TYVEK]

Have you ever played ball golf? How many ball golfers do you know that are scratch golfers and shoot even par? Ball golf par is not set for the average golfer to achieve.


Krabtree shooting a 51 at Seatac is like Tiger woods shooting 70 at Augusta!
Not everybody can do it! Not everybody should!

yeah i have played ball golf. i used to play almost everyday when i was a teenager because we lived on a golf course. i still get out and play every once and a while, but the disc has taken the wind out of my balls sails.:biggrin2:

[D.L.]

i have NEVER played a ball golf course that is all par 3's!!!



You should give it a try.

3 club Par 3 is awesome. Fast and light, no bag (unless you're counting the cooler!), no tee times, no carts, and usually no speed bumps:D
It might even lower your handicap. GL-DL :rockon:

[olydiscgolf]

yeah i have played ball golf. i used to play almost everyday when i was a teenager because we lived on a golf course. i still get out and play every once and a while, but the disc has taken the wind out of my balls sails.:biggrin2:

As an experienced ball golfer, what was your handicap? How many scratch golfers do you know?

My point being that ball golf par is not realistic for most ball golfers, its what the best golfers in the world shoot and what average golfers inspire to shoot.

Disc golf should be no different.

On a side note: There is a fun little par 3 ball golf course right over in your neck of the woods called Delphi Country Club, very inexpensive but a fun little community track.

[TYVEK]

As an experienced ball golfer, what was your handicap? How many scratch golfers do you know?

My point being that ball golf par is not realistic for most ball golfers, its what the best golfers in the world shoot and what average golfers inspire to shoot.

Disc golf should be no different.

On a side note: There is a fun little par 3 ball golf course right over in your neck of the woods called Delphi Country Club, very inexpensive but a fun little community track.

i dont know what my handicap was for ball golf and dont know what it is for disc golf. i dont keep track of that sort of stuff. but i do know that a world class golfer would most of the times shoot a under par at most courses, not a even par. same with disc golf. when i first started disc golf and was questitoning par 3 for everything, i started researching the guidlines for par. i think more people should research this. it would shed some light on the whole par thing. the basics of it is that each hole has to have a resonable opportunity at birdie, not a really long chip shot that luckily goes in but a makeable shot on a regular basis. so you cant have a 500 foot hole being a par 3 because there is only a handful of people that can actually have a reasonable birdie shot.

its not just the length of the hole that comes into play for par, it is also the difficulty of the hole. like how many obstructions there are or how much foliage and trees are in the hole.

when i see a hole being played by the top players in washington and they arent haveing a shot for birdie most of the time, then i consider that to be absurd for it to be considered a par 3.


About delphi, not all the holes there are par 3. there are 2 par 5 holes and 1 par 4 hole.

[papatart]

As an experienced ball golfer, what was your handicap? How many scratch golfers do you know?

My point being that ball golf par is not realistic for most ball golfers, its what the best golfers in the world shoot and what average golfers inspire to shoot.

Disc golf should be no different.

On a side note: There is a fun little par 3 ball golf course right over in your neck of the woods called Delphi Country Club, very inexpensive but a fun little community track.


I think the interesting thing here is that you just made Tyvek's point for him. The average ball golf course is not all par 3's. You have to go to a "fun little" course and like someone else said use three clubs and run through it. Wow, sounds to me like the par 3 courses are not the norm.

That being said, there are certainly many par 4 holes on the SeaTac layout. It does not take away from it's grandeur that pro players (or anyone else) can shoot under par if the par is 60. To try and compare it to the US Open type of course used in ball golf is silly, because SeaTac is not as difficult of a course as many of the courses out there. Try playing a Stan McDaniel design in Charlotte and you will start to understand how you can have par 4 and 5 holes and that is for every level of player. Do people birdie and eagle these holes? Yes, but that again does not diminish the difficulty of Rock Hill or Renaissance. And both courses are much more difficult to play at par or better than SeaTac but the opportunity is still there if you play well.

So try to break the mold and understand that courses can have holes that are not par 3. At this point, Dalaiwood at a total length of 4800 feet in the long position still has two holes that could possibly qualify as par 4 holes and that's okay......

Have fun playing and we'll see you later!
Scott Papa

[LJ Jubner]

I think the interesting thing here is that you just made Tyvek's point for him. The average ball golf course is not all par 3's. You have to go to a "fun little" course and like someone else said use three clubs and run through it. Wow, sounds to me like the par 3 courses are not the norm. Have fun playing and we'll see you later!Scott Papa

First let me say I play to a 9 handicap ball golf (breaks 80 regularly) four scratch rounds in almost 40 years of play.

There are three types of Ball Golf Courses.

Par Three Usually 9 holes for kids and duffers > 2400 yd's

Executive Either 9 or 18 designed for Executives to play in 3 hrs or less. Usually has 3-6 4's and the rest 3's (rarely more then 1 5) 3600-6200 yd's

Full length. Courses are designed individually to fit the land more then by score. No set number of 3's- 4's or-5's but Usually equal number 3's and 5's /9
Can vary in length from 6200 yds (par 65) to as much as 8000 yd's (Par 74)

Hole lengths

Par 3 from as short as 130 yds ( full wedge for me 1/2 for Tiger) to as much as 220 yd's (3 Iron rolls there, Tiger 8 iron).

Par 4 As short as 285 Crushed Driver for me. Tiger 3-4 iron
Par 5 as short as 450 Driver 5 iron for me Tiger driver wedge) longest to nearly 600. (me diver 3 wood wedge Tiger Driver 4 Iron.)

So it's actually really easy to compare yourself to better players but just realizing they will choose different tools then you:
So play only YOUR bag and execute YOUR shots

Ball golf mentality
How do you play a par 3? Hit it as close as I can then one putt.
How do you play par 4? Hit it as well as I can then play it like a Par 3.
How do you play par 5? Hit it twice then play it like a Par 3.

I like the idea of: We both played the same holes and either you or I got around in fewer strokes. Pretty simple and much more rewarding! imnsho

[ChUcK]

SeaTac must be a pretty good course if we always argue about it. Not the best, like Guy envisions, else we wouldn't have anything to argue about.

These continual debates about SeaTac's par level seem to me to be symptoms of the root problem- there aren't any courses in the area that even come close to the Tac in difficulty, so she gets singled out and focused on a bit more than is necessary.

(raises a spoonful of Seattle Disc Golf to his lips and takes a taste)

"Hmmm. Needs more courses."

[Ken Smith]

I've heard that name over and over and yet I have no idea of who that is. I'm guessing he's one of the dinosaurs from the 30 year old Seattle Discfunctional Club that are stuck in their ways.

Tom: Herm put a lot of time into Terrace as well ... one of the best sidearms in the NW (IMO), and when he's on can really tear it up. I've seen him being very nice, giving and fun to be with ... and then the next time angry and not fun to be around. But as far as Herm and DG in the NW, his time and energy w/ the sport outweigh the "discfunction" as mentioned.

Sea-Tac is Wack.

[sillybizz]

Tom: Herm put a lot of time into Terrace as well ... one of the best sidearms in the NW (IMO), and when he's on can really tear it up. I've seen him being very nice, giving and fun to be with ... and then the next time angry and not fun to be around. But as far as Herm and DG in the NW, his time and energy w/ the sport outweigh the "discfunction" as mentioned.

Sea-Tac is Wack.

Don't get me wrong, I know that these guys like Lowell other old school guys have been around forever and have gotten a lot of courses in the ground and have done a lot of work in our area. I wouldn't be playing disc golf if it weren't for Terrace Creek being two blocks away from my parents house and I have Lowell to thank for that. I just get so frustrated with some of these guys sometimes when new blood wants to work with them to make the disc golf in our area bigger and better and these guys want to shut us down and go business as usual and I just don't get it. It makes me question their love for the sport especially when they have all of these one course exclusive clubs that collect a course fund and you never see the money used or accounted for. Maybe at one time they cared about disc golf in our area and maybe they still do but they have a funny way of showing it. I think most if not all of the people collecting for a course fund who aren't publicly accounting for it are embezzling it. There are three doubles events I play: Lake Stevens and Arlington Doubles who don't collect a course fund and Terrace Creek where I collect the fund and publicly account for it.

[Rolly]

I think Guy sums it up well.. In my own opinion, Sea Tac has proved to me this far, it will always test how well you are throwing that day.. Par is whatever your goal maybe in practice and starting at a 60 is a great start at cracking 54. In competion, 54 is a great level to set the bar. I would love to see future championship courses be so demanding (not so impossible) that maybe only future generations will start to touch "par". I try to embrace my over par score at Seatac. It humbles me everytime.That is why it is so special to lots of golfers. At this years CSI I can personally say I put on the worst preformance ever, very humbling. I thought I was ready. The Tac had other ideas. My idea of great golf is a course mightier than the player. It will keep the players evolving.

[REDFIVE]

Sea-Tac is Wack.

Please explain.

[LJ Jubner]

Just to add fuel to the fire If The Tac 's par were to go up 6 to 60 then Lakewood should go down 5 to 49.

[mazza]

to be honest sea-tac is NOT as bad as some of u make it out to be. hell just this saturday i shot a +16 at yaguer for my second round. and the 1 time i played sea-tac i shot a +12 for my second round and i'm only a AM. this course is awesome as it stands. thou there are some holes that make u shiver in fear. the next hole u may have a chance at birdie.

i think this whole thing and be summed up in a couple of words....." PLAY TO BEAT THE COURSE...DON'T PLAY TO BEAT THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU"


granted i am only an AM. i think alot of people forget to play atgainst the course. instead they burn energy to beat the person next to them....and then cry that the course is to hard...or the par's on the course are unfair and should be changed.... hell if u want a course with par 4's and par 5's THEN GO FIND A PIECE OF LAND AND BUILD YOU A COURSE THAT FITS YOU...and quit doggin on the other courses!!!!!

[citizens arrest]

Sea-tac is probably one of the most humbling courses on the west coast and should be played with that in mind, having said that I played some of the best golf the csi weekend on sat. I have ever played out there. I shot a 58 followed by a 59 and had a 9 stroke lead going into sunday and had I been able to make 3 or 4 30ft putts I could have been very close to shooting par:cheerleader: with that in mind sunday was a very different day I managed to card 69 with paul wright shooting a 60 which put us in a play off that went 4 holes and I was able to finally make 3 on 15 for the win. What I,m trying to get at is the course didn't change I did, I started playing defensive golf instead of offensive golf which in turn makes you aim the disc instead of throw the disc, lesson learned. But through all this I never once put myself on the level of dave,dion,kyle or big mike because I know it's impossible for me to throw 500ft it's a little thing called age, and I know that when the top pro's have a day like I was having on sat. they will shoot like brody miller did last year with a 4 under I believe, which to them is like one of the best rounds of their lives. don't get so hung up on ratings and go back to why we play this game and spend the hours and hours trying to better ourselves so we might have one of those magical rounds we all try to shoot. Thanks again to everyone I was able to shoot with and Jub and the crew for a great time.:biggrin2:

[Ken Smith]

Please explain.

Had trouble rhyming with Tac
Was tired and silly

[DoubleDees]

Alot of us "oldschoolers" have seen many a young jubilant disc golfers lose fire after playing the sport for a short time. After handing the so called reigns over of something that has been your baby for 10+ yrs just to see someone take a shit on it doesnt sound very appealing does it?

[Flash]

Krabtree shooting a 51 at Seatac is like Tiger woods shooting 70 at Augusta!
Not everybody can do it! Not everybody should!

Not to get into semantics but More than just Tiger busted out sub 70 rounds at Augusta this last weekend and there were even a couple of 65's!

[Toby Puttzinski]

If it weren't for par 5's, Tiger would be more pedestrian.

[Toby Puttzinski]

Alot of us "oldschoolers" have seen many a young jubilant disc golfers lose fire after playing the sport for a short time. After handing the so called reigns over of something that has been your baby for 10+ yrs just to see someone take a shit on it doesnt sound very appealing does it?


Can you elaborate?

[sillybizz]

Can you elaborate?

Yeah I'd like to hear this.

[DMajor]

Can you elaborate?

Don't shit on babies

[DMajor]

Yeah I'd like to hear this.

You shouldn't shit on babies either

[sillybizz]

You shouldn't shit on babies either

Been trying to cut down. "doubledees" I would like to know just what in the heck you are talking about.

[REDFIVE]

Been trying to cut down. "doubledees" I would like to know just what in the heck you are talking about.

I think he means that if someone has put 10 years into taking care of a course and someone wants to come in and try to change things around it is as cool as pooping on babies. I have a baby and he does enough pooping on himself.

Tom you baby pooper on-er.

[REDFIVE]

I was done and just snickered to myself because of the word "POOP".
HAHA Poop.

[DoubleDees]

Compare the course/club/tournament or whatever it may be to a child. Now Ive spent the last 10 years raising my child and you come along and tell me Im doing it wrong. Not only that, but you want custody of my kid.

[DoubleDees]

... then just a few years later after Ive turned my back on my child and you for taking "it" away from me I find out you didnt want to raise my kid anymore and gave it up to the state.

[sillybizz]

Does this stem from the Seattle area wanting to put together a real club, is that what you are talking about? This whole "Terrace guys are trying to take over" thing stems from Lowell whispering in the ears (bitching) to the people who play down at North Park. If you or Lowell would of taken the time to read the new by laws you would have seen that you and your little local "clubs" and course funds weren't going anywhere, they were going to be left to the people who already run them. We weren't trying to take over anything, all we wanted was to work together with Lowell and everyone else and they didn't want to play nice. Cue Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura Pet Detective. ~~~~~

[Toby Puttzinski]

No, I don't think that's what he was ranting about... I believe it had more to do with Seatac, child abandonment, and the fact that their should be more respect for the decisions made by those that have nurtured the course over the years.

Also, this whole 'North Parkers' are against us thing is BS... where did you get your information from this time? I have had this discussion with many NP'ers(how about you?) and there is only 1 "North Parker" that I have heard rant about the 'guys from Terrace just wanting to take over....' The MAJORITY of US would support anybody that aims to improve the disc golf scene in our area!!
Silly, it's funny how you keep whining about how everyone's divided on this issue, but all I ever see from your posts is negativity-- always pointing that stubby little finger of yours at someone...
You have said several times that you were done bashing Lowell... I thought you were finally moving forward and supporting Chainbangerz. Lowell hasn't been whispering in anyones ears... so he doesn't want to change the club, he has done exponentially more than most have done for disc golf in this area, so please STFU already!!!

[Toby Puttzinski]

No, I don't think that's what he was ranting about... I believe it had more to do with Seatac, child abandonment, and the fact that their should be more respect for the decisions made by those that have nurtured the course over the years.

Also, this whole 'North Parkers' are against us thing is BS... where did you get your information from this time? I have had this discussion with many NP'ers(how about you?) and there is only 1 "North Parker" that I have heard rant about the 'guys from Terrace just wanting to take over....' The MAJORITY of US would support anybody that aims to improve the disc golf scene in our area!!
Silly, it's funny how you keep whining about how everyone's divided on this issue, but all I ever see from your posts is negativity-- always pointing that stubby little finger of yours at someone...
You have said several times that you were done bashing Lowell... I thought you were finally moving forward and supporting Chainbangerz. Lowell hasn't been whispering in anyones ears... so he doesn't want to change the club, he has done exponentially more than YOU have done for disc golf in this area, so please STFU already!!! :rolleyes:

[Cold Steel]

Did Lowell tell you to double post? Just like him...

[sillybizz]

I can't believe this hasn't gone to the controversial topics section yet. Now I know who I hate even more than Lowell... THE MODERATOR TEAM! :)

[DoubleDees]

I speak for myself. I have no affiliation with any club in or near the Seattle area. This is coming from an entity looking in from the outside.

I am one of those "oldschoolers" and am simply asking you to look at things from a perspective other than your own.

[REDFIVE]

Nothing is broken at seatac. move on people, move on.

[sillybizz]

I don't think calling it a par 3 or 4 or par 1 or anything else changes the way I play the holes out there. I think par is determined by you. If you feel the course is a par 60 then play it that way, if you feel it's a par 54 then play it THAT way. Who cares what par is, Seatac is two things; hard and awesome. In then end no matter what par is the same number of strokes will be taken to complete the course. So I'm on both sides of the argument.

[buckyvania]

sillybiz and tyvek you are the two most immature and selfish and CLUELESS people playing locally. I don't know how your computer can even function with all the misinformation and unintelligent babble being run through it. Yes please STFUA and stay in snohomish county thank you.

[TYVEK]

sillybiz and tyvek you are the two most immature and selfish and CLUELESS people playing locally. I don't know how your computer can even function with all the misinformation and unintelligent babble being run through it. Yes please STFUA and stay in snohomish county thank you.

:laughing::laughing: DUDE STOP MAKING ME LAUGH!!!:laughing::laughing: you are so ignorant to EVERYTHING you just end up being funny. whew thanks for the good laugh though. :cheers::laughing::laughing::laughing:

[sillybizz]

sillybiz and tyvek you are the two most immature and selfish and CLUELESS people playing locally. I don't know how your computer can even function with all the misinformation and unintelligent babble being run through it. Yes please STFUA and stay in snohomish county thank you.

You realize that Tyvek lives in Pierce County right? I guess not. This is the type of fracture between courses with different little cliques that frustrates me about this area. By the way who are you sir? My name is Thomas Little, I run Terrace Creek doubles and you can find me there every Tuesday at 5:00pm... If you would like to talk to me in person come on down, I'll even 'let' you in Snohomish County.

[PuttsRrad]

Silly - don't waste your time with this one! not worth it

[sillybizz]

Silly - don't waste your time with this one! not worth it

Now that's some good advice dude. :)

[JR Stengele]

Hey, don't hate on snohomish county as some of us are not still breast fed by our mothers!

[Uhlman]

Hey, don't hate on snohomish county as some of us are not still breast fed by our mothers!

:confused:

[sillybizz]

Hey, don't hate on snohomish county as some of us are not still breast fed by our mothers!

You always know what to say John! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[JR Stengele]

Got milk?

[LakeStevensBA]

Hey, don't hate on snohomish county as some of us are not still breast fed by our mothers!

What do you mean? I am still being breast fed by YOUR mother!
:laughing:

[JR Stengele]

She is over 60 sicko!

[sillybizz]

She is over 60 sicko!

That's BA's thing, like me and BA's toes. :shocked: :laughing: :angel: :jumpspin: :bricks: :biggrin2:

[Tim]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/random/3753872_std.jpg

Older the berry, the sweeter the juice...

[JR Stengele]

That is wrong on so many levels...

Besides, everyone knows it's the darker the berry the sweeter the juice! = )

[sillybizz]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/random/3753872_std.jpg

Older the berry, the sweeter the juice...

"DaMN!"

[olydiscgolf]

You realize that Tyvek lives in Pierce County right? I guess not. This is the type of fracture between courses with different little cliques that frustrates me about this area. By the way who are you sir? My name is Thomas Little, I run Terrace Creek doubles and you can find me there every Tuesday at 5:00pm... If you would like to talk to me in person come on down, I'll even 'let' you in Snohomish County.

Actually he lives in Thurston county.

[sillybizz]

Actually he lives in Thurston county.

:slapface: I knew it was one of the two, oops. Yeah stay in Thurston County Orion! :angel: :)

P.S. How do I become a member of Team Meteor?

[TYVEK]

P.S. How do I become a member of Team Meteor?

hmmmmmm..............:chinscratch: well since i just made it up im not sure. i guess you would need to use your meteor most of the time and then send one down to me and have me put a cool dye on it for you. how does that sound? :jumpspin:

dont worry im staying in thurston county! although i did just rip Seatac a new one with my meteors the other day:biggrin2:

[GettinBetter]

hmmmmmm..............:chinscratch: well since i just made it up im not sure. i guess you would need to use your meteor most of the time and then send one down to me and have me put a cool dye on it for you. how does that sound? :jumpspin:

dont worry im staying in thurston county! although i did just rip Seatac a new one with my meteors the other day:biggrin2:

After you let me try yours at Terrace I went out and got one. Thanks again bro.

[sillybizz]

I just hit an ace with my Meteor on Sunday, no joke. :)

[REDFIVE]

I just hit an ace with my Meteor on Sunday, no joke. :)

Meteor aces don't count!

[mazza]

then i guess ROC ace's would not count either then.... besides ROC's are just a poor mans meteor....HAHAHAHA

[sillybizz]

Any time I play with people who don't normally play with me they always say something like "what in heck is that disc you keep throwing?" lol love the Meteor!

[Ken Smith]

Hey, I resemble that remark (yesterday at LW doubles).

[TreeLove]

Was this not enough time? I can tell you next years CSI is going to be on the first weekend in April.

Fail.
(http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6139)

[Sausage Fingers]

Fail.
(http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6139)

Way to bitter it all up!

:pirate: