star katana

[REDFIVE]

Went to my local pro shop hoping to get an eco teebird but had to settle for a star katana instead. After spending the weekend playing in the cold I couldn't bring myself to go out andthrow it, maybe tomorrow. Hope it is a bit more stable than the champs. Plastic is pretty firm and domey which is a good sign. Anybody else pick one up? What do you think?

[Brian]

I have one and it is great. I got a Pro, Champ and star. I love my Katanas.

[snap7times]

and how does each one fly? compared to other innova discs?

[maynard]

I have all the versions of this disc and it really is like a sidewinder only much faster and farther.

[Pizzel]

Anyone know if Next Adventure has these in stock?

[REDFIVE]

I threw the star a few times today and compared to the champ I tried it is crazy stable. The champs were under stable to say the least, extreme hyzer to flip. The star started crazy hyzer to flat but didn't want to get much further over than that. It was cold and I wasn't fully warmed up but they can definately handle more than the champ. I look forward to being able to throw it when I can get something behind it.

[Brian]

I have all the versions of this disc and it really is like a sidewinder only much faster and farther.

This is a good description. I would say distance similar to the R-Pro Boss and flight similar to sidewinder. Certainly the Pro and champ are less stable than the star. I will probably be keeping 2 in my bag from now on. I haven't gotten the chance to play much lately with my work and all, so i am not sure which 2 I like best yet.

[Dot Humps]

Does it have a wide rim like the Boss? I don't like those super wide rim discs. :explode:

[Adam Schneider]

Yes, the Katana has the same rim thickness as the Boss.

[Ol' Bob]

I got to thinking about those wide rims. I think they translate into faster spin rates. I think they work like a pitcher's grip on the splitter. The closer you grip the disc to the axis, the faster you will spin it. If you turn your bike upside down and want to spin the front wheel, you can get it going a lot faster if you push it along by the spokes than by the tire.

[Adam Schneider]

I thought a wider rim just meant that a greater percentage of the disc's mass was in the rim, which I suppose gives it more angular momentum -- and makes it more like a gyroscope, for whatever that's worth.

[GettinBetter]

I think both statements are correct

[DMajor]

where is that professional physicist when you need him

[erp]

Both statements are correct - you can impart more spin on a disc with the same energy if you can grip closer to the center, which the wide rim achieves, and the added mass at the rim will tend to maintain more of the spin due to inertia (an object in motion stays in motion, yadda yadda yadda)

I don't think we need to go past thermodynamics to explain this, but I bet string theory would be pretty amusing to apply to this.

I'm gonna stick with Newton and thermodynamics and call it good.

[Pizzel]

Anyone know if Next Adventure has these in stock?
Bump

[vapor]

If you push down on bike spokes (closer to the axis) you would have to push harder to get the wheel spinning, but with that harder push you would get more rpm. The bike has a fixed axis so I'm not sure that would be a good analogy to a disc. I think the weight of the rim and how well you can grip the disc are the key factors.
I'm going to be picking up a katana in the near future and need advice on plastic. I can throw my star valkyrie 300'+ and my distance and accuracy is steadily improving. I know some people think I should throw a putter 350' before I look at a speed 13 disc but I play to have fun. Any suggestions?

[REDFIVE]

Soft champ or pro. These might be a little harder to find than the star(for now) but a lighter weight star might work also.

[bvdisc]

Both statements are correct - you can impart more spin on a disc with the same energy if you can grip closer to the center, which the wide rim achieves, and the added mass at the rim will tend to maintain more of the spin due to inertia (an object in motion stays in motion, yadda yadda yadda)

I don't think we need to go past thermodynamics to explain this, but I bet string theory would be pretty amusing to apply to this.

I'm gonna stick with Newton and thermodynamics and call it good.

Okay, so assuming that we have 100% efficient systems then it doesn't matter where you push on a bike wheel or on a disc. It will take the same amount of energy to give it the same amount of spin. The problem is humans aren't 100% efficient systems. You can get the bike tire going faster with the spokes because it's moving slower and you aren't using as much strength just getting your arm up to speed with the tire, let alone pushing it faster.

Having more weight near the edge of the disc means that you'll have more angular momentum given the same rpms on the disc. I wouldn't assume that you get the same amount of spin on those disc as others though, it will vary some. Anyway glossing over the details of why, you should be able to get more angular momentum on the disc which will act to help keep it on any given course longer.

There are several other effects though that are not taken into account by my previous statement though. And for today I'll leave it at that. I have to get back to work.:whistler:

Oh and I don't know that we need to invoke Thermodynamics but we do need Bernoulli.

[Ol' Bob]

I'm just saying that whatever speed you apply in your one chance to get it spinning (the release), the closer to the axis you apply the spinning force, the more revolutions per unit of time you'll get from it. Efficiency and leverage differences will be minimal for any fraction of an inch of rim width. When the pitcher throws the splitter, he's moving his grip way in toward the axis, but his release (spin force application) time is a long stroke, whereas releasing the disc is mostly all in that pop at the end. Any increase in spin is going to help, and does.

I'm betting that when the Boss and Katana finally come out in DX, one of them is going to beat the DX Valk's record. (Or maybe the R-Pro will be the one, being it's as yet an unknown factor.)

[Parks]

Well, here's something to think about.

If you were to throw a bicycle wheel for maximum spin, you would throw it from the tire and not the middle.

In fact, the closer to the center you got, the harder it would be to impart spin with a throwing motion.

You actually want to be farther from the center in order to apply maximum leverage from the initial axis of rotation (the edge of the disc in your fingers, or possibly even further up the arm).

To steal an analogy from another board, its like throwing a hammer. Gripping the handle and applying leverage there in a throw will get you much better results that trying to throw from the center of gravity.

[Ol' Bob]

The hammer is not analogous. It has an extreme displacement of weight distribution. Putting the weight far from your elbow gives you advantage in lever arm and the time and distance you have to accelerate it.

I just said that the fraction of an inch near the rim changes little in the time you have to impart spin, but still ads a little more to the spin rate, and that can't hurt. Yes, it's harder, taking slightly more leverage, but not so hard we'd notice.

Spin wouldn't gain you much in a contest of throwing bicycle wheels, as they don't have much glide and are a crappy wing.

[Parks]

Spin wouldn't gain you much in a contest of throwing bicycle wheels, as they don't have much glide and are a crappy wing.

That's not the point.

The point is that applying rotation to a circular object with a throwing motion is best done from the edge.

Also, the hammer IS an analogous case, just an exaggerated one due to the weight distribution. It just emphasizes my point.

The same analogy could be applied to throwing a stick of uniform weight distribution. Imagine playing fetch; do you throw the stick from the center of mass or from the edge for maximum spin and velocity?

[Ol' Bob]

I give up.

[REDFIVE]

Don't give up bob, argue sir, argue! Then again it take a humble man not to care.

[Parks]

Its no fun if you give up :/

[vapor]

Is the gummy champion plastic exclusive to the Katana? I haven't noticed any soft champion plastic.

[REDFIVE]

The soft champion is usually used for 150 class discs it is a lighter blend. The soft plastic is being used for katanas and some bosses because they are so big.

[Ol' Bob]

Its no fun if you give up :/

It was a fun argument when Monty Python did it, but it's been in re-runs too many times.

[Kris Hagner]

It was a fun argument when Monty Python did it, but it's been in re-runs too many times.

I love that part in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail when they're going back and forth about how the coconut seed made it's way over to England "Well, It could have been an African Swallow!"

...I've looked for a Katana at Next Adventure and Deepo, I haven't seen one for sale locally yet, haven't seen any on the course either, but I already want one! What kind of weights are available? Is there a 150 Star Katana?

[prospect]

i won doubles at High Bridge this weekend so I used the winnings to buy a 171 star katana. I throw forehand, and if I put that thing on the right angle, it goes a mile. I'd compare it to a beat Destroyer, but faster.