New for 2010!

[Bruce]

"In 2010 all competitors will be required to pass a rules proficiency exam before they are allowed to compete in a National Tour event. This test will be offered online and should be ready by January 1st, 2010. "

Found that when I was looking at the registration form for the Memorial. I like the idea, but discuss!

[runnaman]

Excellent idea. I think something like this should be done for all PDGA events so that people won't be oblivious about some of the more basic rules about foot faults and such.

[snap7times]

I looked everywhere on all registration forms for the memorial and did not see anything like this, where did you see this? However, I agree this is a good thing, but how many "oblivious" players play in an NT event as compared to the B and C tiers that have the real problem occur often?

[Bruce]

It's on the PDGA signup's site, under the pro registration, right about where you sign off on the waiver.

[snap7times]

ahh but aren't ams the ones with the problem? Nothing on the Am's side like that... hmm, but still an idea to pursue...

[RonTheWhip]

are currently certified officials required to take the test?

i like the idea :)

[catalystdg]

we don't have problems with people not knowing the basic rules of disc golf because we have someone to explain everything in the players meeting at every event. sure it takes an hour but we all have plenty of time.:yawn::yawn::headbang::headbang:

i think anyone who plays in any sanctioned tourney should have a basic understanding of the rules.

[bvdisc]

Great idea. Certified officials should also be exempt. :trophy:

[GettinBetter]

This is a great idea! Maybe you should have to pass this test before you become a PDGA member, or before your first sanctioned tourney.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

ahh but aren't ams the ones with the problem? Nothing on the Am's side like that... hmm, but still an idea to pursue...

Not from my experience with the BSF this year. You wouldn't believe the complaints I heard from Pro after Pro about foot faults, courtesy, scorecards, on and on. Maybe they know, but don't adhere?

I like this idea and I think the next step IS to have anyone playing a sanctioned event tested.

Bob

[DMajor]

You might lose some of the more casual ams playing sanctioned tournaments if you require certification to play. I don't think that would be a problem with pros

[Scott]

You might lose some of the more casual ams playing sanctioned tournaments if you require certification to play. I don't think that would be a problem with pros

I think this is absolutely correct, but keep in mind that this change is only for NT tournaments (for now). Not many casual ams play those.

[snap7times]

which brings me to my point is why only pros at NT take the test, why not just all because right now there is no test for the AM side...

[Scott]

which brings me to my point is why only pros at NT take the test, why not just all because right now there is no test for the AM side...

Baby steps.

[DMajor]

I think this is absolutely correct, but keep in mind that this change is only for NT tournaments (for now). Not many casual ams play those.

very true I was responding to this comment

"This is a great idea! Maybe you should have to pass this test before you become a PDGA member, or before your first sanctioned tourney."

[Parks]

It wouldn't be worth it for Ams, as DMajor is correct.

Not to mention that the level of play is less serious for Ams. Almost every Am group that I play with in tournaments cares more about having fun than nitpicking details. There is usually at least one person in the group that knows the rules, and so the common things like foot faults and
O.B. get handled without the need for a rules test.

On occasion a rule is questioned and the book comes out, and that solves the problem.

Worst case scenario is that an entire Am group doesn't know the rules, and someone gains or loses a piece of plastic. With hundreds or thousands of dollars on the line it becomes necessary to absolutely know the rules well.

[DoubleDees]

im curious if they will ever truly define a falling putt outside the circle... Im thinking we will have to wait until we can get slow-mo replay for verification :)

[bvdisc]

im curious if they will ever truly define a falling putt outside the circle... Im thinking we will have to wait until we can get slow-mo replay for verification :)

The problem isn't the definition. The problem is not having the instant replay with slow-mo (like you said). It's so hard to tell when people jump putt so the uncertainty goes to the player. That's a tough one.

[Tim]

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that there's no such thing as an Am NT.

[gwillim]

which brings me to my point is why only pros at NT take the test, why not just all because right now there is no test for the AM side...

There is no AM side to the Memorial NT. The Amateur event is a separate Supertour "A-Tier" event. All NT events are PRO only. If an am signs up for the Memorial NT, they will have to be certified.

Also, I agree with Cabal, the PRO division competitors DO have a serious lack of understanding of the rules.

I was at an event this year hanging out with a card and there was a rules issue that came up, a veteran player told the rest of the group something that was definitely incorrect. Meanwhile, two of the other players on the card, both very highly rated pros, admitted that they'd never actually read the rulebook.

It's pretty common, and I completely support what the PDGA is implementing this year. It won't magically make everyone playing NTs know the rules, but it's a start, and it will hopefully help people take pride in knowing the rules of our sport.

[gwillim]

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that there's no such thing as an Am NT.

Haha, I was typing my reply while you posted this!

[Magilla]

Also, I agree with Cabal, the PRO division competitors DO have a serious lack of understanding of the rules.

I was at an event this year hanging out with a card and there was a rules issue that came up, a veteran player told the rest of the group something that was definitely incorrect. Meanwhile, two of the other players on the card, both very highly rated pros, admitted that they'd never actually read the rulebook.

It's pretty common, and I completely support what the PDGA is implementing this year. It won't magically make everyone playing NTs know the rules, but it's a start, and it will hopefully help people take pride in knowing the rules of our sport.

Sad, But true........:slapface:

I have been asking for some sort of "Test" to be a registered Pro for years.
This is a step in the right direction.

:yay:

[snap7times]

There is no AM side to the Memorial NT. The Amateur event is a separate Supertour "A-Tier" event. All NT events are PRO only. If an am signs up for the Memorial NT, they will have to be certified.

Also, I agree with Cabal, the PRO division competitors DO have a serious lack of understanding of the rules.

I was at an event this year hanging out with a card and there was a rules issue that came up, a veteran player told the rest of the group something that was definitely incorrect. Meanwhile, two of the other players on the card, both very highly rated pros, admitted that they'd never actually read the rulebook.

It's pretty common, and I completely support what the PDGA is implementing this year. It won't magically make everyone playing NTs know the rules, but it's a start, and it will hopefully help people take pride in knowing the rules of our sport.

DUHHH, I know that, but without wasting my time typing out "the supertour A-tier Am event that is run at the same time as the Pro NT event with the exact same name" yada yada, yall smart, didnt realize i had to dumb-down my post to below High School graduate level for everyone to understand what I meant. We know all Am sides of NT Events are seperate "A-tier events", what am I supposed to call it, "hey everyone, I'm signed up for the Supertour A-Tier Amatuer Memorial"? That is just stupid, "I'm signed up for the memorial" sounds simple and common sense. So you telling me I didn't go to the memorial in 2009? They have the same name, no point in dragging it out into stupid seperation names and event titles... and no one said anything about "Amatuer NT", Tim and Gwilim :slapface::nahnah::wink2:

[Bruce]

The test is up on the PDGA site, and I passed, wahoo!

[Wog]

Everyone should take the test. So far I don't see many perfect scores.

I took the test twice (I'm crazy, and yes the test is different the second time). I got 14 out of 15 both times. The first time I messed up and somehow clicked through a question without answering it. The second time I learned something new.

[JMan]

I can't help but laugh; that the rules have become so convoluted as to require the pros to test, how soon before video reviews inside the circle, or Doss and the like showing up at NTs with their lawyers? And funny that in 1976 many of us saw the pdga steering the game this way. Now I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just another layer of bureaucracy to the competitive side of the game, for what's that's worth. And based on history I figure the pdga will allow a monetary indulgence; that way they'll have a few more bucks to turn out a great DG magazine.

[snap7times]

Nah, I think the PDGA is pushing for empowerment and confidence in the rules. Players are either unknowingly or knowingly breaking obvious rules and other players are wussing out on calling them on the rule violations, but when the round is over, the bishing breaks out like wild-fire. Too many wussies not calling violations is probably what created this "FREE-UNLIMITED" Rules test to push the Pros to call their own violations etc. Video replays will never happen because there are 3 other guys in the group that are supposed to be watching and making the calls.
Now for the Magazine - if the PDGA continues to push out an improving magazine with member contributions to article ideas and photos, I don't mind paying an extra $5-$10 to decrease ad space and increase content yearly. If it were $5, that's a $1 a mag concept, 10k members, that's $10k per issue for added content space and decrease AD space....

[JMan]

Oh I agree the group should make the call during the round, but the bitching you mention after the round would ensue during the round, say on time violations, foot faults etc. And I'm still not sold on more rules and tests being the cure.

[General Scales]

Yeah, so having only played Amateur, I am reluctant to call a rule violation on somebody who is playing intermediate unless the violation is so severe (like throwing your putt from in front of your marker) that not calling it would be a disservice to those playing in your group.

As for people playing pro and admitting they have never read or cared about the rule book, I've got somethings to say about it.

1.) Your a pro. If you admit to never knowing the rules you should immediately have to step down from your pro status till you can show you know the rules.
2.) The sport of disc golf will never get anywhere if we have people like that claiming to be professional and yet don't care enough about the sport to learn how to 'officially play'. (Never will I play a casual round and say things like you exceeded your shot time or you past the front lie of your marker, etc...)
3.) Stop bitching if you do get caught bending the rules. It's your fault, and no reason to ruin everyone else's round because you feel cheated.
4.) Call violations but be polite about. Great example, Chump Challenge this year @ Highbridge. There was a falling putt debate about a brilliant birdie from just barely outside the circle. All the players were courteous and the violation was actually not issued, just a warning. On the opposite, I pretty much saw two friends destroy a friendship because neither one would be polite about it.
5.) Last but not least, you dont have to be a rule nazi either. There is nothing more annoying then playing a round and having somebody carrying the PDGA rule book around looking for any single violation so you get docked a stroke. These are usually the people that throw their bags when they miss a putt, etc. This game started as fun with rules to keep the parameters fair for everyone. Don't bust out the tape measure to find out if my disc is just barely over two meters (it wasn't).

With that mouthful, I compliment the PDGA in taking steps to eliminate silly arguments which hold up a round, make people bitter against their group and pretty much eliminate any fun that one could be having.

Also, eliminate the two meter rule from the book and please, please, PLEASE come up with a better definition for a falling putt. It's goddamn annoying.

[Yardbird]

I say keep the 2 meter rule.

Well, kind of, change it to the 3 meter rule.

Plain and simple. If the disc is out of reach, then it is an unplayable lie.

[SMOKIN JOE]

Golf has always been set up to govern yourself and the ones you are playing with. It's supposed to be a honest game. Obviuosly it's not going like that. All violations should be called at all times on all players regardless of skill level. Especially am's. They need to know what the rules are. This is the Professional D.G.A. not the Ameteur D.G.A.. When you sign up for a tourney you should know all the rules and follow them. Everybody should be required to carry a rulebook or there should be an official on every card in these big events. It's not just for fun at the top anymore. It's a bussiness and a livelyhood for some. The Professional D.G.A. is just trying to be more focused on that everybody is playing by the same rules. Every point and cash paying event big or small should be Professional. I know the few times I've played ameteur lately that some of the people have no clue of the rules. Or they just don't want to follow them. I'm all for this kind of thing. Everybody should be aware of what the rules are. If everybody carried a rule book and was familier with it we wouldn't have as many problems. As for the 2 meter rule. I've never thought it was correct anyway. If you are supposed to play it where it comes to rest. Anything above ground should be a penalty not just two meters. So I'm glad it's gone. Three meters would be hard to judge, Two meters was easy because that is about 6 feet. About ten feet would be hard to judge. Need more oncourse officials and evryone should have a rulebook.

[scottycb1]

I plan on playing 2 or 3 NT's this year so I have already taken the test. I have to admit it was harder than I thought it would be. This isnt because the questions are that hard, they have good points in them but the wording in a lot of the questions was bad to terrible. Confusing and in some cases unrealistic. At least with the 15 questions I had. Just log onto the PDGA website, create an account if you dont have one and take the test to see. It takes about 10 minutes if you really think about the questions and you must get 12/15 right to pass. That is what I got correct.

Scott Withers
Pdga 38464

[emmarose]

In Harvey Pennick's "Little Red Book" or perhaps it's "And if You Play Golf You're my Friend" he writes something like, "I always remind my pupils that the rules of golf do not exist to help you, but to protect you" and I think that this applies to disc golf also.

I find it unfortunate that there are people who do not care about the rules and do not care to learn them, especially folks at the Pro level. Rules exist to keep it fair for everyone... if we are competing with each other then we darn well better be playing the exact same game... with the exception of our own personal skills and abilities.

And to address folks who don't want to speak up to the more "casual" intermediate or amateur players... hey, don't assume we want to be ams forever... some of us have grandiose ideas of going pro sometime, too, and we would greatly benefit and appreciate any and all help we could get. Why not use your teachable moments? There is always a way to say things in a polite and respectful manner so as to avoid making someone feel stupid... but won't they feel even stupider if they find out after the fact they've been playing less than kosher golf? If you don't speak up you are doing yourself, the other golfer, and the sport a disservice, I really do believe.

Me personally... I'm going to start studying the rule book... and look forward to expanding my knowledge of the sport I love... All around this seems like a fantastic idea... and relatively painless if it's only a 15 question test.

[emmarose]

I plan on playing 2 or 3 NT's this year so I have already taken the test. I have to admit it was harder than I thought it would be. This isnt because the questions are that hard, they have good points in them but the wording in a lot of the questions was bad to terrible. Confusing and in some cases unrealistic. At least with the 15 questions I had. Just log onto the PDGA website, create an account if you dont have one and take the test to see. It takes about 10 minutes if you really think about the questions and you must get 12/15 right to pass. That is what I got correct.

Scott Withers
Pdga 38464

... or maybe it's not so painless... :whistler:

[T-Bird]

Prolly a nOOB question but....
How does it work if there is no 2 meter rule?
Does that mean the sky is the limit and you just play from below it w/ no penalty no matter how high it is? If so does it matter whether or not the disc is actually retrieved?
Or does it mean the opposite: if it's off the ground it's a penalty? What about logs or sticks, ferns or even leaves and grass? Where do you draw the line?

[Scott]

Prolly a nOOB question but....
How does it work if there is no 2 meter rule?
Does that mean the sky is the limit and you just play from below it w/ no penalty no matter how high it is? If so does it matter whether or not the disc is actually retrieved?
Or does it mean the opposite: if it's off the ground it's a penalty? What about logs or sticks, ferns and even grass? Where do you draw the line?

Play directly beneath your disc, no penalty.

But did I miss something? The two meter rule didn't acutally go away, did it?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Optional choice for the TD to specify a single tree, all trees on specific holes or all trees on a course as having the 2m penalty. The default now is no 2m penalty without TD or course pro indicating it. Just like water is not automatically OB unless TD or course pro specifies.

[HoopSauce]

If I'am an am can I still take the test and get certified?

[emmarose]

If I'am an am can I still take the test and get certified?

I shouldn't be answering this question 'cause I no pretty much nothing, but I'm pretty sure AMs need to take the test if they plan on playing certain events, for example, The Beaver State Fling... don't know what you mean about being certified, tho...

peace threw disc golf,
emmarose

[DanD]

While I agree about the neccessity of rules, I do prefer a more casual approach - it's why I enjoy playing disc golf. For instance, I subscribe to the "play it where it lie" concept - I don't care where it lie, you find it, play it, all good.

In my myopic disc golf minds eye, one of the beauties of disc golf is that we don't have to subscribe to a governing body, we play in the woods, we should be able to drink, have fun, and not stress if your foot landed 6" from your marker on a 200' fairway drive. That's disc golf to me, course I used to use tombstones as hole markers so I'm not tied to these basket things either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-PDGA, exactly the opposite, it's more a personal belief and style of play. You Be the Judge! Now go throw!

[Scott]

I shouldn't be answering this question 'cause I no pretty much nothing, but I'm pretty sure AMs need to take the test if they plan on playing certain events, for example, The Beaver State Fling... don't know what you mean about being certified, tho...

peace threw disc golf,
emmarose


Almost correct, but not quite.

You only need to take the test if you plan to play in a National Tour (NT) event. The Beaver State Fling is actually two events: An NT for Pros and an A-Tier for Ams. So unless an AM plans to move up and play Pro for the fling they do not need to take the exam.

However - There is no reason that everybody shouldn't take the exam. Rules proficiency in all divisions would not be a bad thing.

[emmarose]

Almost correct, but not quite.

You only need to take the test if you plan to play in a National Tour (NT) event. The Beaver State Fling is actually two events: An NT for Pros and an A-Tier for Ams. So unless an AM plans to move up and play Pro for the fling they do not need to take the exam.

However - There is no reason that everybody shouldn't take the exam. Rules proficiency in all divisions would not be a bad thing.

Amen, brotha!

[emmarose]

While I agree about the neccessity of rules, I do prefer a more casual approach - it's why I enjoy playing disc golf. For instance, I subscribe to the "play it where it lie" concept - I don't care where it lie, you find it, play it, all good.

In my myopic disc golf minds eye, one of the beauties of disc golf is that we don't have to subscribe to a governing body, we play in the woods, we should be able to drink, have fun, and not stress if your foot landed 6" from your marker on a 200' fairway drive. That's disc golf to me, course I used to use tombstones as hole markers so I'm not tied to these basket things either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-PDGA, exactly the opposite, it's more a personal belief and style of play. You Be the Judge! Now go throw!

I entirely agree with this sentiment Dan (I mean, who's daddy came up with You Bee The Judge, anyway, right?), BUT, and yes it is a big but, when it comes to competing it also has to be fair... when I'm just playing a cas round with my homey's I choose to be my own judge and keep it fun... like, not playing from the middle of a crazy gnarly blackberry bunker since it's bad enough that I'm going to have to go in there and get my damn disc anyway, and no, I'm not taking a stroke... the prickles are punishment enough, I'll just take my asterisk* thank you very much... but as soon as it becomes a competition... even a non sanctioned event (Dan, you know what I'm talking about ;) ) then it becomes a whole different story. Don't you dare try to post a score that says you're a better or more skilled golfer than me if you are not following the same rules as me... that's an insult to everyone involved and terribly disrespectful... (in case you can't tell, I've had to deal with cheaters and folks playing a much different kind of golf than me in my day... so, yeah, I'm a little bit sensitive... )

peace threw disc golf,
emmarose