downriver course design

[catalystdg]

any one wanting to submit a design for the new downriver layout can do so
the only requirements is that there are no crossing fairways and please take safety and the vegetation into account.
all designs must be submitted to Bob Perrewe at bobperrewe@hotmail.com
by our next club meeting on nov 10
bob will foreward all designs anonymously on to me to look over and we will diside on one design by the end of nov.

[catalystdg]

one week left

[Eric whippet Brown]

I want to know if we can clear out some trees to make new fairways or what? I have some idea's that could make some nice holes with a few trees here and there moved out of the way.

[General Scales]

The only thing I would like to see @ Downriver is some par 4 holes. There is the length and amount of land that would be required. I'd love to see a combination of old 7 and 8 into one hole.

I'd also love to see the return of hole 6 but we all know that it interferes with so many things that it'll never happen.

[Timber]

If Hole 5 goes away I'll be one happy camper :headbang:

[catalystdg]

the layout for downriver is almost done( just need to find exact spots for the tees and pins but the overall layout has been picked)
i should have some maps in time for the meeting so you all can check it out.

[Parks]

Whats the style of the new layout?

Is it supposed to be more beginner friendly, a more challenging course, something with alts for both, or what?

[catalystdg]

it will be quite difficult with some very technical shots as well as a few long holes(450-600) hole 5 is the only remaining hole from the original layout:yay::yay::yay::yay::yay:
i will have alt pin possitions for for all the holes.(those might not be put in now but hopefully in the spring)
depending on the weather and what everyone want we could possibly change the course mid dec.
thanks to all who submitted designs( we are actually using a combination of three):cheers:

[Parks]

Sounds good, I'm pumped to try it out.

[catalystdg]

the layout is ready and is looking pretty sweet
hope everyone can throw straight:wink2:

[General Scales]

Wait, does this mean you guys moved all the baskets for the new design or the new design is ready to but into play? It'd be frickin sweet to play new Downriver before the snow.

Any chance at getting a map posted up here so us non club members have a guide for the new layout?

And what is the SDGA membership costing these days?

[Wobbly Bob]

The SDGA Board has not seen the new layout yet, or approved it. Until that happens there will be no changes made. It is however our intention to create a new layout before Spring next year.

[catalystdg]

The final design will be approved and maps will be given out at the meeting.
i was going to let the rest of the board see the best two designs but since none of the designs met the criteria i had to combine a few different layouts,
the board voted to have me make the final desision so its just a formality of presenting the design at this point.
depending on the weather we could move everything mid dec.

[Gordy #21004]

any one wanting to submit a design for the new downriver layout can do so
the only requirements is that there are no crossing fairways and please take safety and the vegetation into account.
all designs must be submitted to Bob Perrewe at bobperrewe@hotmail.com
by our next club meeting on nov 10
bob will foreward all designs anonymously on to me to look over and we will diside on one design by the end of nov.
At the Board meeting on Oct. 6th the decision was made to move forward with this design search. The plan was to have Chris review the submitted plans and refer (in his opinion) the stronger of the designs back to the Board for consideration. The Board was then going to do one of two things: either reach a conclusion on a design outright and adopt it, or present its conclusions and /or recommendations back to the membership. There was by no means any suggestion or instruction from the Board that Chris was to take over the entire plan process. The Board is still waiting for Chris to do what it appointed him to do; recommend two or three of the 5 designs submitted for it to consider and move forward from there. Moving forward would include disscusing and approving the scope of work and estimating what costs would be incurred. :nono:

[Gordy #21004]

the layout for downriver is almost done( just need to find exact spots for the tees and pins but the overall layout has been picked)
i should have some maps in time for the meeting so you all can check it out.

The overall layout has been picked? Picked by who?You were supposed to refer the best of the design suggestions back to the Board for further review.:cop:

[Gordy #21004]

The final design will be approved and maps will be given out at the meeting.
i was going to let the rest of the board see the best two designs but since none of the designs met the criteria i had to combine a few different layouts,
the board voted to have me make the final desision so its just a formality of presenting the design at this point.
depending on the weather we could move everything mid dec.

I don't understand what your saying here. Did you let part of the Board see these two designs? Was it this part of the Board that decided that none of the designs met the criteria. Was it this part of the Board that voted that the existing Board plan be scrapped and that the entire design process be usurped by you? You say you were going to let the "rest" of the Board see the designs but for some reason because they did not meet the criteria this was not necessary? What puts the other part of the Board on the 'in'? Are you saying now that you will decide what part of our process we will be involved in or not? :pullhair:

[catalystdg]

we will have a bored meeting before the club meeting where this will be discussed.

[Wobbly Bob]

Maybe we need to have a Spokane Disc Golf Association Board or (Bored, this is something Jub would write) meeting sooner than Dec. 8 at 5pm to discuss this. I was under the impression that the Board/Bored had the final say, which as always gives us each one vote. Do we really want this going on, on the public forum.:slapface: I make a motion that the Board meets Sunday at the Season Ticket at 6pm to iron this out.

[Wobbly Bob]

Chris, it does seem to me that you have tried to hi-jacked the Board process. When I look at the meeting minutes they do state that you are to submit the best plans to the Board for consideration and approval (and while not stated I thought then recommendation to the club for approval). There wasn't any contigency plan set up in case all of the plans didn't meet the stated criteria. If none of the plans meet the criteria then maybe we should try again or with Board approval hire a professional to consult us on this matter.

[roadhog]

hiring someone costs money that the club doesnt have. i, for one, feel that a combination of 2 ideas makes sense. it will combine the thoughts of two different people and probably make a good course. whats the difference of 2 days? meet to decide then meet to decide again? on tuesday chris can show the idea then we all vote on it, my opinion is that most people will like it. then its done. we as a club let the people that we put in charge of things handle them. then they report back by any means available. chris has been working on this and reporting progress back on this site, better then having a meeting every 2 days so he can report progress. he can give a lay out on tuesday and then we can yaa or naa it. i think that most will like it though, chris put alot of time into this one.

[Wobbly Bob]

Shad, what I'm proposing is that the Board meet prior to the club meeting to work this out, this would be a closed meeting for Board members only.

We all want this project to proceed in a timely fashion. The fact is the Board has not reviewed any new course plans and until that happens I fear that there will be no progress made concerning this issue.

[roadhog]

SORRY Bob i miss read the "board meeting" part. i thought that you were talking about a general meeting.

[catalystdg]

i in no way hi-jacked the process i was following through with what the board decided ( the way i understood it along with two of the other four that were there at the time) if things need to change that is something that can be adressed at the meeting. i am however quite insulted by the accusations and dissapointed with the way the were publicly made.

[Gordy #21004]

This diagreement is an example of why we need more "process" in our process. People have different interpetations/expectations of the discussions. Discussions are not votes or motions. When does a meeting adjourn? Which discussions are on the record? What motions or votes are on the record? It is a tedious procedure, but our clarity will avoid these misunderstandings, and provide a format for the future.
Jaymie

[catalystdg]

I agree, i am trying to follow through with what i understood my job to be if what i am doing is wrong we can adress it at the meeting but i will proceed untill that point (especially when i have the support of the majority of those present when the original decision was made)

[LJ Jubner]

... a Board or (Bored, this is something Jub would write) .

Robert i don't like your tone. No sir, not one bit!

... a Spokane Disc Golf Association Board meeting sooner than Dec. 8 at 5pm to discuss this. I was under the impression that the Board/Bored had the final say, which as always gives us each one vote. Do we really want this going on, on the public forum: I make a motion that the Board meets Sunday at the Season Ticket at 6pm to iron this out.

As a member in good standing I second Bobs motion (as agreed upon by vote) that the "proposed" re-design of Downriver DGC plans should be presented beforehand to the setting board members for review.


This clearly is a good idea to have it a couple of days early to still have some room to work things out. If Sunday is to soon then the pre "Open meeting" is crucial for the process to really move forward.

Like the rest of DG, There are rules and procedures that need to be followed to ensure everyone gets their input.




side note Fortunately because of the weather in Spokane lately the actual work will be several weeks if not not months away.

[Wobbly Bob]

Robert i don't like your tone. No sir, not one bit!

Hey Jub, that ain't no different than pDGA now is it?

[LJ Jubner]

If you mean the lower case p, Yes it is very un-p


I gather from your post Bob The "pre" Open meeting on Tue will be a real barn burner. I wish I could be there. I would like my post added as an offical motion that has been seconded.

Hey What's the "proxy vote" procedure? I got one.

[catalystdg]

the meetings tonight (dec 8) at 6 pm at stadium pizza we among other things will be voting to aprove the new course layout

[catalystdg]

the new design was approved (pending final walkthrough with all design contributors) the final exact pin and teepad locations will be finalized at that time.310

[catalystdg]

Downriver disc golf course redesign


1. Moving 18 baskets: 20 bags of concrete-2.50$ per bag plus equipment rental 25-50$(1 day + gas ) total cost and work time= 85-125$ two days ( 4-6 workers)

2. Moving, building and grading teepads: 10 yards 5/8 minus=150$, replacing damaged or worn out fly mats 1000$ equipment rental 50$. Total cost and work time=1200-1400$ 2 workers and two hours per teepad.

3. Installing and repairing teesigns: 10 bags of concrete, hardware 15$ total work time and cost= 40-50$ 1hour per sign off site 1 day 2-4 workers on site ( not included is measuring, mapping and printing out teesigns)

4. Installing 14 benches: 30 bags of concrete, other materials to be donated total cost and work time 75-100$ and 1 man hour on site per bench ( not including off site assembly of benches)

5. Completing tourney central and kiosk: repairing old table, installing benches, painting kiosk and building/installing plexiglass cover. 75-100$ 4-6 man hours ( not included is making signage for kiosk and donation box)

6. Other work to include: erosion control on all hillsides( that are in the areas of play) ;this will include stairs, planting and retaining walls, beautification of over used areas; this includes pathways and plantings, and protection of existing plantlife. Total cost and work time: 500-1000$ (incremental) and unending man hours

Total project estimate 2500$-3000$
note: all existing teepads, teesigns and benches will be reused if possible much of the materials ( lumber, plants, paint etc..will be donated by local players and companies)

[LJ Jubner]

Now If it were big enough to actually see the changes it would be handy. Is there a better way to look at this then from space? Did all 18 really need to be moved? What was the vote count? How many members actually showed? Chris this is good work but because you are retiring from the board is this A your swan song and B who will take over your great renaissance of DDGC

[catalystdg]

as soon as we have the final decisions made we will paint and flag tee/pin locations so anyone who wants to walk the course can do so.
the club voted this spring to start from scratch so the only holes that remained are old 5 and modified versions of 9 and 10 ( witch were included in several peoples designs). although i am not running for reelection i will help who ever is elected in my place to finish both the downriver and highbridge projects. and the actual vote count i do not no but everyone voted in favor except bob who abstained

[Parks]

I'd like to walk/play the new design with you some time, C-Re'.

Any time after this Saturday would be good (except during doubles on Sunday) if you were down to do that.

[Gordy #21004]

as soon as we have the final decisions made we will paint and flag tee/pin locations so anyone who wants to walk the course can do so.
the club voted this spring to start from scratch so the only holes that remained are old 5 and modified versions of 9 and 10 ( witch were included in several peoples designs). although i am not running for reelection i will help who ever is elected in my place to finish both the downriver and highbridge projects. and the actual vote count i do not no but everyone voted in favor except bob who abstained

The vote was unanimous with one abstention. G.

[Gordy #21004]

The vote was unanimous with one abstention. G.

Hats off to Bob, actually, for abstaining. His position on this serves as the sole bookmark of a process that was handcuffed and thrown in the trunk. That Chris was handed exclusive control of this was something that could only happen if a Steward based Board majority said so. Since this was obviuosly going to be dictated to the rest of us we tried to find a way that a member vote would approve a more inclusive motion; one that would allow for more reasonable reflection on this project, while at the same time locking in a result never-the-less. Everyone who has had a part in working through this Downriver remodel has been busting ass. We just wanted to be the pricks responsible for making this come out the way it did instead of those other p-----. We stand to be held responsible for it anyway. So I say hats off to everybody that is still on board to make this come out right and will actually be here to fund and support Chris all the way through the installation effort. :bowing: Gordy. PS Jub voted for the motion too.

[catalystdg]

for the record this was never the way i thought the course should be designed or the whole situation handled. I did not want to design the course. my opinion was and still is that it should be designed by board appointed commitee and the final design voted on by the members. i however could not get support on this idea. i do commend gordy for trying to work this out so the board could look like we were in agreement and proceed as a unit, something some members(from both sides of the issues) were not willing to do in the past and still refuse to do going foreward. this is the reason i am not returning to the club. until the board can actually do what it has commited to do ( which is only to promote disc golf ) and work together towards that singular goal instead of throwing little fits and trashtalking the other board members when things don't go our way( which has been done by EVERY board member myself included) i will no longer be a part of the problem. i am still working to promote disc golf but at this time i don't see that possible as a part of the sdga. I am currently installing two private courses and have been hired by another club to install their courses. so going foreward i see disc golf in the spokane area looking up

[Gordy #21004]

for the record this was never the way i thought the course should be designed or the whole situation handled. I did not want to design the course. my opinion was and still is that it should be designed by board appointed commitee and the final design voted on by the members. i however could not get support on this idea. i do commend gordy for trying to work this out so the board could look like we were in agreement and proceed as a unit, something some members(from both sides of the issues) were not willing to do in the past and still refuse to do going foreward. this is the reason i am not returning to the club. until the board can actually do what it has commited to do ( which is only to promote disc golf ) and work together towards that singular goal instead of throwing little fits and trashtalking the other board members when things don't go our way( which has been done by EVERY board member myself included) i will no longer be a part of the problem. i am still working to promote disc golf but at this time i don't see that possible as a part of the sdga. I am currently installing two private courses and have been hired by another club to install their courses. so going foreward i see disc golf in the spokane area looking up

Everything everyone has done for the last ten years brings us to where we are today; looking up. It has seldom been easy. we pay our own way. There's probably no better time for us than today is, but the challanges are larger and our path forward is more complex. Players and others will be called upon more than before to give and to contribute. The constant, for better or worse, is still the SDGA. that name is the door-opener. Gordy

[coryreu]

I want to know if we can clear out some trees to make new fairways or what? I have some idea's that could make some nice holes with a few trees here and there moved out of the way.

Why was there no response to Eric's question(posted Nov. 6th?) I think that some nice holes is what people are looking for when it comes to changing the layout of a course. If that means clearing "some" trees, then so be it. Without some removal, I feel like that you're just changing directions and not changing difficulty or quality.

[Wobbly Bob]

I don't know Cory, my Board Position is Public Relations and Eric's question didn't seem to pertain to PR, that's why I didn't respond.

[Miguel]

Is the new layout posted anywhere?

[Parks]

It was posted in this very thread by Catalystdg.

[Eric whippet Brown]

If anyone that has a map and knows the new layout of the redesign I will be down there today. I want to get it marked out and figure out a plan of attack:pullhair:

[catalystdg]

If anyone that has a map and knows the new layout of the redesign I will be down there today. I want to get it marked out and figure out a plan of attack:pullhair:
i still have to finalize the exact pin locations but i can walk it with you sometime this week
you can check out my proposal at your board meeting tonight

[Eric whippet Brown]

We marked out the tee's with paint and the basket locations with orange ribbon by the pin location's. I'm going to try and figure out some distances on the holes. If anyone has a gps or a measuring wheel and would like to make some measurements we can see what we come up with. We are in the process of making buckets for temp pins so we can feel out the course layout, we could use a hand with that as well.

[Yoduh]

Nice, good work SDGA :trophy: I can't wait to go see what it looks like.. There will be more new golf to be played in SPokane and hopefully less public board on bored bashing. If you got a problem with somebody say it to their face or in an email.. It helps the public relation side of things. :blush: Nice to see Jubby is spreading his wealth of knowledge in our general direction. :explode:

[catalystdg]

i will try to flag off 4s fairway on mon morning

[catalystdg]

i will go paint off the changes to the new layout( to fix the problems the parks dep had) and i am curious as to whether the change is going to happen or if the whole thing is going to get scratched again:explode::explode::explode::explode:

[Eric whippet Brown]

We have a meeting coming up and I want to know what's going to happen with downriver as well. I have some ideas with the course but just don't know if anyone will like them. I have to consider the newer players or am's/beginners so I don't make it to hard, so nothing longer than the old layout. Woohoo sounds like fun trying to juggle holes to make it fun for all levels of players. With all the different opinions on highbridge I just don't know what it will take to make everyone happy. So I think if anyone has a opinion about what to do with downriver bring it to the meeting, because we will listen to your ideas and then try and figure out something.

[Parks]

Right now there's issues.

We cannot clear any trees. This makes proposed holes 3 and 4 basically unfeasible. Proposed hole 1 would be a tough sell without any trimming, as well.

There are also issues with the pins near the water (old 6's pin and old 10's pin) but these haven't been issues in the past so I don't think that's as big of deal as the clearing.

What changes did you have in mind that would solve these issues?

[catalystdg]

there was already a plan in place for the water issues since we new that was a potential problem and as far as the clearing issue that only really stopped hole 4 which i also had a plan for.
this was all previously discussed and we knew all these problems might come up these are just minor isseues that need ironed out

[Timber]

Does this mean the plan will have to be modified and re-approved?

[Parks]

Catalyst has resubmitted a plan that Jeff is running by the Parks Dept. for their approval.

If they are cool with it, then it will be Eric's call as Facilities Coordinator to implement it. Assuming Catalyst's changes are good, I would bet that Eric will go ahead and decide to move forward with the design.

Catalyst has an offer to put in the course changes (assuming that its still on the table), though Eric might decide to do it in house if he thinks we can do it cheaper or better or something.

[Timber]

Thanks for the update, Lyle. Not sure what I could do to help the process along, but if there is anything let me know.

[Eric whippet Brown]

I want to be down there on Sat morning if its not raining and play the layout. I know that the club wants to try and do the switch before the DRO, I don't want to rush this layout without at least a dozen or so people throwing it. I think that there is really not a great spot for tourney central and hole 3 is a poke and hope shot that will be extinct when all the pines grow. We don't know how the flow of the course will be without playing it and I think the changes before a big tourney is not a good idea either because were still trying to cleanup the highbridge alt pin locations. We are trying to get a pro arborist from the city to come down and let us figure out what we can or can't cut. I would really like some opinons on these topics I brought up.

[catalystdg]

Catalyst has resubmitted a plan that Jeff is running by the Parks Dept. for their approval.

If they are cool with it, then it will be Eric's call as Facilities Coordinator to implement it. Assuming Catalyst's changes are good, I would bet that Eric will go ahead and decide to move forward with the design.

Catalyst has an offer to put in the course changes (assuming that its still on the table), though Eric might decide to do it in house if he thinks we can do it cheaper or better or something.

the parks dept did approve the changes so it is just up to eric wether it happens (since the club and parks dept have both approved the design) hovever catalytdg's offer to complete the work is no longer on the table.
i hope the plan goes through but whatever happens happens