Changes?

[Brody Cannon]

I'm meeting with someone that works for THPRD on monday or tuesday and I'm going to walk the park with him so suggest some improvements/ new holes/ new placements and also discuss an information bulletin board as well as signs. Here are my goals:

Hole 1: New placement further back (add 50-100 ft)
Hole 2: Move the teepad back and get it cemented in
Hole 3: New placement further back and left (add ~20 ft)
Hole 4: New placement further back or maybe to the left (add ~25 ft)
Hole 5: New placement to the left back into the corner
Hole 6: ???
Hole 7: New placement further back to the left into the corner (add 50-75 ft)
Hole 8: New placement behind back tree (add ~30 ft)
Hole 9: New placement to the left and maybe a little further

Also: Bring the old hole 9 back/ add more holes in that area
Add 1-2 more holes in the unused grass area across the new bridge.

I'll get to work on one of the maps to show what I'm talking about..

Any suggestions??

[Brody Cannon]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh112/AceCannon64/GreenwayChanges.jpg

[Adam Schneider]

What about the open area along the path south of #8? Any possibility for one or two holes in there?

[Brody Cannon]

That area is right behind my house and unless you want really short holes, the houses might come into play so unfortunately no. I make my own holes with my basket in that area all the time but it's too risky for beginners to play. Further south than that would be enough room for a separate course but it's all fenced off as a protected area or something like that.

[Adam Schneider]

It looks like the east side of that southernmost area could easily host a 200-footer that wouldn't be any danger to the houses if it played toward the southeast; but I guess you don't really have room for another one that would come back north. Still, if you wanted an even 12 holes.....

http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7&d=1223236925

[Brody Cannon]

Ya I thought about that but like you said, it's just a dead end...

[Scott]

I don't necessarily agree with all of Brody's proposed changes. Longer holes don't necessisarlily = better holes. Greenway is a great way to introduce new people to the sport and learn the game; it shouldn't try to be too much.

Also, the master plan for Greenway park is to have a balance of high-use and protected areas. The new creek area is going to be set aside as a natural area - I don't expect to ever see the old hole 9 return. Likewise, I wouldn't expect 7 to lengthen into the woods, either.

[Adam Schneider]

Likewise, I wouldn't expect 7 to lengthen into the woods, either.
I don't think those are "woods"; it would just be further back behind more evergreens that are mostly open underneath.

And Brody, you're talking about alternate placements, not permanent relocations... correct?

[Brody Cannon]

I don't think those are "woods"; it would just be further back behind more evergreens that are mostly open underneath.

And Brody, you're talking about alternate placements, not permanent relocations... correct?

That is correct. And I'm not going for length on purpose for the reasons Scott stated. I'm recommending new placements to relieve that current placements for a little while so some grass can start to grow back.

[Brody Cannon]

Scott, I'm not trying to make the course permanently harder. I'm just trying to change it up so there isn't as much foot traffic around one basket. Also, I'm trying to get more holes in so the groups are spread out and more people can be playing at once without a long wait on each hole.

The course alterations are not my only goal. We're going to discuss tee signs and a kiosk or something with information about the course and disc golf in general.

If some of these changes are made, I'm gladly going to volunteer my time to maintain the course (change placements, post new info on the kiosk, etc.)

[Brody Cannon]

I don't expect to ever see the old hole 9 return.

I have my hopes up that it might because the old ground sleeve is still there. If they weren't considering bringing it back, they would've just removed it when they moved the basket or re-routed the creek. :whistler:

[Scott]

I have my hopes up that it might because the old ground sleeve is still there. If they weren't considering bringing it back, they would've just removed it when they moved the basket or re-routed the creek. :whistler:
We can always dream. :biggrin2:

[Zetoyoc]

ug. I'm just barely able to throw par on this course. now i might have to try harder :) After reading the foot trafic reason for the movements I am more agreeable to most of them. I am skeptical about hole one as i think there is a picnic table and often people at the proposed new location. and the location change on 7 might make me toss a few more in the water, but that might be just me :) 8 could potentially send more disks into the childrens area unless i missread the map. I like 10 and 11 . I play this coarse at least 5 times a week and plan to continue through the winter. Brody, If you want help on maintinence, cleanup, or wahtever to help keep up this area I will be happy to help.

-Z

[Brody Cannon]

I am skeptical about hole one as i think there is a picnic table and often people at the proposed new location. and the location change on 7 might make me toss a few more in the water, but that might be just me :) 8 could potentially send more disks into the childrens area unless i missread the map.


Well the table could easily be moved on hole 1.

As far as hole 7 goes.. Just throw up the middle as if you were going to the current placement and it's just a little further back.

Hole 8: you have misread the map. The angle would be further away from the children area.

Hey I'm sure I'd recognize your face on the course since I play there everyday but I don't recognize your forum name... who are you?

Thanks for offering to help. :cheers:

[Zetoyoc]

Ah yes, I see it now, you are correct on hole 8. As you discribe them, the changes sound great. It would be a shame to make mud holes around the current pins.

I found the forum a few days ago and decided i couldn't keep my mouth shut :) So here I am. I live next to the course and would like to be a part of its upkeep.

[gwillim]

I think the changes are a great idea. I don't think that lengthening the holes a bit will make the course that much more difficult for beginners. If beginners are carding sixes and sevens it's not entirely because of hole length, it's often just because they are three putting and such. Hole 5 is 405' and as far as I know, no one complains about the length of the hole. None of the proposed changes will make any holes that long (except perhaps hole 1). On top of that, there will still be a great variety of hole lengths, there is nothing you can do about many of them anyhow.

The only people that it will potentially "hurt" are the people who are now shooting around par. Even then, the extra challenge will help them to improve their game greatly. Which is something that I think would be great for the locals, and is missing from Greenway. Look at all the kids playing the course now, it's amazing. And their golfing ability is getting seriously stumped by not having the variety and challenge that they will encounter when they play other courses, like Pier. Clearly, the land won't allow for many of those challenges, but we can do our best to simulate some of them.

On top of that, having a second set of pin placements on most holes will definitely help with the wear and tear on the grass. Some of those greens haven't had anything green around them since springtime.

-Gwillim

[smobro]

Brody, you are going to be living at your parents house until you are 40 if you keep this up. JK thanks for all your hard work out there. After seeing you and Elzinga kill it this weekend, I guess I am going to have to stop beating Greenway up and start playing it more. Apparently it is a game improver.

My only thoughts would be that they put money into better drainage and/or consider elevating/ de-elevating some more of the tee boxes and/or baskets to provide some additional texture to the round. Kinda like #4 and #8. I like that throw. Good risk/reward with the hill as a rollout or backstop. How about a hole from Albertson's roof top to #2? let's talk to the mgr at the store and see if they will let us throw from there?:rockon:

[Brody Cannon]

How about a hole from Albertson's roof top to #2? let's talk to the mgr at the store and see if they will let us throw from there?:rockon:

I've actually tried to throw from the Albertsons parking lot to hole 2 and it's pretty fun but you gotta have a spotter. :yay:

[Brody Cannon]

I met with the parks guy today and we discussed everything about the park and the course. We've exchanged phone numbers and email addresses so I'll keep everyone updated.

What we're thinking is stenciling on the tee pads instead of signs to save money and then putting that money towards a nice kiosk. As far as different placements, that's up to his boss and all the nature freaks that think disc golf is a harm to the environment. :pullhair:

[Adam Schneider]

If they're really concerned about harm to the environment, then they should stop mowing all the grass in all the city parks.

[Scott]

...all the nature freaks that think disc golf is a harm to the environment. :pullhair:

That's a little uncalled for, Brody.

Just because someone cares about the enviroment does not make them a freak, right? :nono:

Playing DG and caring about the environment should NOT be mutually exclusive.

[Scott]

If they're really concerned about harm to the environment, then they should stop mowing all the grass in all the city parks.

Which is exactly why Greenway park has a mix of mowed and unmowed areas.

Orchard Park used to have an unmowed habitat area (holes 4-9), but the parks department apparently caved in to the disc golfers requests.

[jevon]

That's a little uncalled for, Brody.

Just because someone cares about the enviroment does not make them a freak, right? :nono:

Playing DG and caring about the environment should NOT be mutually exclusive.

He did include a qualifier in there. "...all the nature freaks that think disc golf is a harm to the environment."

He is not including the nature freaks that don't think disc golf is a harm to the environment. :kissflowers:

[Scott]

This should shed some light on the changes that Greenway Park is currently going through.

http://www.thprd.org/pdfs/facilities/GWoutreachinfo.pdf

[Pizzel]

I don't consider myself a "nature freak", but I do think disc golf can have a negative effect on natural habitats.

[Brody Cannon]

That's a little uncalled for, Brody.

Just because someone cares about the enviroment does not make them a freak, right? :nono:

Playing DG and caring about the environment should NOT be mutually exclusive.

Do I really need to be MORE specific?! I'm talking about all the people that send emails to THPRD trying to get the course removed because they've "seen a disc hit a tree". I probably care for the environment just as much if not more than you do Scott. After all, I LIVE along the park. I do in some ways think that disc golf is a harm to the environment but I'm talking about the people that are strongly overreacting. People that litter are harming the environment. People that smoke are harming the environment. Heck, even people walking in the grass could be considered harming the environment! When I say 'nature freaks' I am referring to the people that are prejudice against disc golf in general. The changes I'm trying to achieve at the course are to HELP so why are you disagreeing with them?

[Sean Phillips]

Having city parks harms the environment. Having cities harms the environment. Reproducing harms the environment, your kid will most likely litter sometime in his/her life.

I worked on wind turbines for 5 months last year. One time climbing down a tower I was crowded by a bunch of "nature freaks" that wanted the wind turbines shut down because they kill birds. I'm pretty sure wind power is one of the "greenest" ways to produce power. If you think wind power isn't clean enough then stop using electricity. If disc golf is harmful to the environment to the extent that somebody wants to banish it, then walking, running, and living is in the same category. So murdering people is good for the environment.

I feel like a politician now.

[Scott]

The changes I'm trying to achieve at the course are to HELP so why are you disagreeing with them?

Mostly to play Devil's advocate. I think the park has a good mix of natural and mixed use areas, and I'd like it to stay that way. I'd like to make sure all sides of the issue are explored before minds are made up.

[Brody Cannon]

Mostly to play Devil's advocate. I think the park has a good mix of natural and mixed use areas, and I'd like it to stay that way.

Let's get something straight... I'm not going for an 18 hole course! I'm trying to get alternate placements to relieve the area around the baskets. I'm trying to get signs so people don't get lost. I'm trying to get a kiosk with information so people know the rules of the park and know a little more about disc golf. And if I'm lucky, I'm trying to get 1-2 more holes to relieve congestion when there are tons of people playing at the same time. Scott, I know for a fact that I play this course way more than you and everyone else for that matter so I'm pretty sure I know more about it than you do. People like myself that play the course often would like some minor changes and I don't see the 'harm' in trying to achieve them.

[Pizzel]

Man.....Scott is such a "thinks he knows about Greenway Park but doesn't even live near the park freak". I think that is almost as bad as a "nature freak"!:whistler:

[Brody Cannon]

Man.....Scott is such a "thinks he knows about Greenway Park but doesn't even live near the park freak". I think that is almost as bad as a "nature freak"!:whistler:

:laughing:
:slapface:

[Micah]

Brody thanks for taking the time to meet with the parks guy, the one hole placement that I would hesitate to agree with you on is hole 9 it sounds like it would make for an easy rhbh hyzer path maybe a placement much farther left next to the proposed stream bank would work well.

[Brody Cannon]

Brody thanks for taking the time to meet with the parks guy, the one hole placement that I would hesitate to agree with you on is hole 9 it sounds like it would make for an easy rhbh hyzer path maybe a placement much farther left next to the proposed stream bank would work well.

I agree but the closer we get to nature/ the stream, the less of a chance to get any change at all. The spot I proposed to the parks guy is about 30 ft from the water. Sorry that my drawing sucks. :blush:

[Carie CPink]

The park belongs to all of the tax payers of Beaverton and there are many who use the park for other reasons other than disc golf. We need to respect that. Not one person owns the park regardless of how many miles they ran those trails to how many drives have been tossed from the tee pads.

And on a side note:
As an "environmental freak" who teaches environmental science AND plays A LOT of disc golf, all park users need to strike a balance with the needs of the ecosystem and how we use the land. If we abuse it, we lose it. It's called conservation and this idea goes back to Teddy Roosevelt. The land is there for us to use but at the same time, we need to maintain it for future use. If a change in the course might harm the ecosystem you should care because it's all interconnected.

[Scott]

The park belongs to all of the tax payers of Beaverton and there are many who use the park for other reasons other than disc golf. We need to respect that. Not one person owns the park regardless of how many miles they ran those trails to how many drives have been tossed from the tee pads.

And on a side note:
As an "environmental freak" who teaches environmental science AND plays A LOT of disc golf, all park users need to strike a balance with the needs of the ecosystem and how we use the land. If we abuse it, we lose it. It's called conservation and this idea goes back to Teddy Roosevelt. The land is there for us to use but at the same time, we need to maintain it for future use. If a change in the course might harm the ecosystem you should care because it's all interconnected.

Nicely said, Carrie. Way better than I could have put it.

Oh, one other thing. Please do me a favor and go slap Pizzel up the side of his head. :D

[Scott]

Let's get something straight... I'm not going for an 18 hole course! Did I say you were?

Scott, I know for a fact that I play this course way more than you and everyone else for that matter So you play there more than I do. Doesn't mean you own the park. As Carrie pointed out, the park is owned by the taxpayers. It's as much mine as it is yours. It is owned equally by people who have never even set foot in the park.


Brody - I don't like where this is going. This conversation is taking a seriously negative turn, and that's not what I was going for at all. In fact, many of the changes you propose (kiosk, signs) would be GREAT additions to the park and are sorely needed.

I don't necessarily agree with all of your proposed changes, but that's OK. We don't have to agree in order to get along, right?

I beleive we would be doing the park a dis-service if we did not openly discuss all of the proposed changes.

Once my back and job settle down I'd love to come out to Greenway and play a couple of rounds with you. That way I could see in person the changes you are proposing. :cheers:

[Sam]

Aw, man... we were SO CLOSE to an ODSA thread. Jeez, Scott... :laughing:

[Scott]

Aw, man... we were SO CLOSE to an ODSA thread. Jeez, Scott... :laughing:

Shut up you stoopid ass monkey.

How was that? :biggrin2:

[Sam]

Ahhhhh....

Thanks. :D

[Brody Cannon]

Did I say you were?

So you play there more than I do. Doesn't mean you own the park. As Carrie pointed out, the park is owned by the taxpayers. It's as much mine as it is yours. It is owned equally by people who have never even set foot in the park.

I don't necessarily agree with all of your proposed changes, but that's OK. We don't have to agree in order to get along, right?

Once my back and job settle down I'd love to come out to Greenway and play a couple of rounds with you. That way I could see in person the changes you are proposing. :cheers:

Not directly but it seems like everyone thinks I'm trying to take over the entire park.

That is correct but I live along the park which means I probably care for it more since it's my backyard. I think Greenway Park is an amazing park and you're right about it being a nice mixture of nature and recreational areas. Being someone that has been to both ends of the park, I know that there is definitely a TON of protected nature areas and I personally think that there should be more recreation areas.

I'll wait for that day. Hopefully we'll have some changes achieved so I can show you what I'm working for. :cheers:

[Sean Phillips]

Hey Carie,

Really the point that I was trying to make earlier was that too much of something good usually becomes bad. I care for the environment, recycle like crazy, and try to conserve as much as logically possible. I'm all for preserving the earth, but I get frustrated when good "green" efforts are made, then to be shut down by people being way too extreme.

Really all the frustration is coming from my wind power experiences, but it slightly relates to this subject.

[Carie CPink]

I care for the environment, recycle like crazy, and try to conserve as much as logically possible. I'm all for preserving the earth, but I get frustrated when good "green" efforts are made, then to be shut down by people being way too extreme.

I completely agree with you, Sean. Too often, conservation gets confused with preservation. Conservation is about striking balance while preservation is protecting the environment for it's intrinsic value of being there. (I talk a lot about this in my environmental class). With all things, MODERATION! From the types of food we eat, the stuff we drink :cheers: and our activities inside and outside of the home. Extremes cause divisions...

[Bluedisc]

:rolleyes2:
Wow, shouldn't this thread be moved to "controversial" topics...before someone who cares too much about something says something to someone who doesn't do anything about something compared to something remotely related to something that they have given up doing something about? There--hopefully I didn't offend anyone that's too sensitive about something...
:slapface:

[Brody Cannon]

I've been maintaining contact with the parks guy and it looks like they'll be putting in the hole 2 tee pad soon. Also, I got a surprise email saying that they will be doing nice hole signs instead of the stencils on the tee pads.

The bad news is that hole 9 might have to be moved because there is more work that needs to be done in that area.