Playing above your rating (from Eugene Celebration thread)

[Sausage Fingers]

Hello eveybody. Sorry I haven't been on here lately but I have been very busy lately.

For those of you who haven't heard, I broke my arm pretty severely and typing is a nightmare.

Sorry to hear about your injury, healing vibes comin' your way...:merlin:

I can now start working on the pools to make the rounds go as smooth as possibe. I'll be contacting a few people to move into a different division. I have never seen an intermediate group as small as this one and a Pro and Advanced group as large for a long time.

Looks like time for me to bang the drum about playing in the division that your rating puts you in.

THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE RATED BELOW 900 TO BE PLAYING ADVANCED!

That aught to stir the pot sufficiently for now...

We will be playing 3 rounds at Dexter in the long and short pins both.

I can't wait for a little revenge for last year! I love playing at Dexter.:yay:

This took entirely too long for me to type:slapface: so my future posts will be a lot shorter until I get this cast off. Which is the day after the tournament..

Thanks for your patience. Details and finalized schedule to come soon.

I'm always looking for sponsors and volunteers :dancing:

You concentrate on getting better, we'll chew the fat on the forum in anticipation of another amazing Eugene Celebration!:cheerleader:

Thanks so much for all that you do for NW Disc Golf!:pirate:

[Sam]

THERE IS NO REASON FOR SOMEONE RATED BELOW 900 TO BE PLAYING ADVANCED!

I can think of one...

DESIRE TO GET BETTER AT DISC GOLF!

:cheers:

[Sausage Fingers]

DESIRE TO GET BETTER AT DISC GOLF!

:cheers:

That happens with PRACTICE not osmosis...:pirate:

Insert Iverson audio: "We're talkin' bout PRACTICE?!?!?"

[Scott]

That happens with PRACTICE not osmosis...:pirate:

Insert Iverson audio: "We're talkin' bout PRACTICE?!?!?"

Haven't we been here before? :chinscratch:

[Sam]

Correct. Playing with better players and then practicing what you learn from them will make you a better player.

We have been here before. I still completely don't get why this isn't accepted as common knowledge. Osmosis has nothing to do with it.

[Jonny Roc]

I think more and more people are realizing the benefit of spending a hundred dollars for a Clinic in Real Time. A clinic where you have to try to focus and repeat what you see the best players doing. Birds of a feather flock together.
Wanna be the Best, Find them and engage.:rockon:

[snap7times]

I can think of one...

DESIRE TO GET BETTER AT DISC GOLF!

:cheers:

I agree with the desire to get better at disc golf, but skipping 2 divisions up? That's some serious desire... I think the TD, if they have to move a few people around to even the flights, those who are skipping up 2 or more divisions would probably be the first to move down one division because they still would be playing up... TD's call at the end of the day...
Just adding fuel to the fire....
speaking of which, SAM, what did that kid ever do to you? About to burn his eye out with that flame torch in your hand in picture 21 in the Next Adventure photo album... :laughing::shocked:

[Sausage Fingers]

Correct. Playing with better players and then practicing what you learn from them will make you a better player.

We have been here before. I still completely don't get why this isn't accepted as common knowledge. Osmosis has nothing to do with it.

Sorry I must have missed the memo about this being the Eugene Celebration PRACTICE tournament...:pirate:

[Scott]

I think more and more people are realizing the benefit of spending a hundred dollars for a Clinic in Real Time. A clinic where you have to try to focus and repeat what you see the best players doing. Birds of a feather flock together.
Wanna be the Best, Find them and engage.:rockon:
Is a tournament really the best place to experiment with new skills and techniques? If you see a better player do something you've never done before are you really going to try it right then?

Practice with players better than you. Play with your peers.

The rating system will work, if we let it.

[Sausage Fingers]

The rating system will work, if we let it.

HERETIC! LEPER! BURN HIM!:yay::yay:

:pirate:

[Flash]

Yeah rating are one thing but what the hell is up with this age protection junk, are we all not just amateur's with similar ratings? Why do we continue to support age protections divisions, maybe we should change all tournaments in the area to ratings only events, that way you will not be able to play in a division you do not qualify for.

Oh wait this is the US still, where people have a freedom to chose what they want to do and were they want to play. Who knows why people sign up for the Advanced division, perhaps it was because initially they would be playing with the Pro's for each round but not any more, Advanced will likely play 2 rounds Sat & 1 Round Sunday opposite the Pro's. I think it comes down to ability and not consistency, people know they have the ability to compete in advanced but lack the consistency so they are gambling that this weekend they will have the ability to make it 3 rounds before consistency can catch up to them, kind like a hot roller at a craps table.

Sam, if the case is getting better by seeing better wouldn't making the jump to Pro give these guys the best bang for their buck?

[Sausage Fingers]

I think more and more people are realizing the benefit of spending a hundred dollars for a Clinic in Real Time. A clinic where you have to try to focus and repeat what you see the best players doing. Birds of a feather flock together.
Wanna be the Best, Find them and engage.:rockon:

Save your money and hire Nate Sexton for a private lesson, it will do you more good and THEN you can kick everybody's arse in MA2 which will raise your rating so you will qualify for MA1 in the near future.

But if you play 2 divisions above your rating and then choke hard you'll be in the same spot for the NEXT tournament. Except that the sharks in MA1 will be enjoying your entry fee!

Hey! Here's a good idea: play the division that you are rated for and then just hand the winner of MA1 the cash difference in entry fee at the awards ceremony! I'm sure that he'd love that...:pirate:

[Sausage Fingers]

Why do we continue to support age protections divisions, maybe we should change all tournaments in the area to ratings only events, that way you will not be able to play in a division you do not qualify for.

Hey if that's what it takes I'm game! I'll be happy playing in MA2 WHERE MY RATING SAYS I SHOULD PLAY!:pirate:

[Flash]

Hey if that's what it takes I'm game! I'll be happy playing in MA2 WHERE MY RATING SAYS I SHOULD PLAY!:pirate:

You have to admit it does simplify things for a TD and reduces the costs of the event by reducing the number of trophies needed! But other than that I was being a little sarcastic!

[Sausage Fingers]

You have to admit it does simplify things for a TD and reduces the costs of the event by reducing the number of trophies needed! But other than that I was being a little sarcastic!

So was I! But unless we go back to the Stone Age of disc golf and just have 2 divisions: Pro & Am; some people will just keep passing on the pablum of "play up so you'll get better".:pirate:

[Scott]

Ratings only is great, if everyone adheres to it.

It shouldn't matter if a 42 year old plays a 22 year old as long as they both have the same (or similar) rating, right?

[Sausage Fingers]

Ratings only is great, if everyone adheres to it.

It shouldn't matter if a 42 year old plays a 22 year old as long as they both have the same (or similar) rating, right?

Once again, I am ALL FOR a Ratings based event. You get that rating, you can play in that division.
You DREAM about being good enough to have that rating doesn't mean you should be able to play in that division...

Stuart Smalley yourself into THINKING you're good enough to have that rating doesn't mean you should be able to play in that division...:pirate:

[Scott]

I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, I'm going to birdie this hole!
:laughing:

[Sausage Fingers]

I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, I'm going to birdie this hole!:laughing:

Hell you should skip AMs and go PRO with THAT attitude!:rockon:


:pirate:

[Flash]

Once again, I am ALL FOR a Ratings based event. You get that rating, you can play in that division.
You DREAM about being good enough to have that rating doesn't mean you should be able to play in that division...

Stuart Smalley yourself into THINKING you're good enough to have that rating doesn't mean you should be able to play in that division...:pirate:

You are confused, this is a free market society, people are not getting to play in those divisions they are choosing to play in those divisions. You need to cater to their Psyche not their ability.

[snap7times]

Save your money and hire Nate Sexton for a private lesson, it will do you more good and THEN you can kick everybody's arse in MA2 which will raise your rating so you will qualify for MA1 in the near future.

But if you play 2 divisions above your rating and then choke hard you'll be in the same spot for the NEXT tournament. Except that the sharks in MA1 will be enjoying your entry fee!

Hey! Here's a good idea: play the division that you are rated for and then just hand the winner of MA1 the cash difference in entry fee at the awards ceremony! I'm sure that he'd love that...:pirate:

ALready have an appoitment with Mr. Sexton on Friday before the celebration, and I'm still baggin' MA2, I want a win, oh please let me win... :whistler:

[Sam]

Sam, if the case is getting better by seeing better wouldn't making the jump to Pro give these guys the best bang for their buck?

No... I think that there has to be some natural progression and Intermediate or Rec to Pro seems a little over-eager to me.

[Sam]

Sorry I must have missed the memo about this being the Eugene Celebration PRACTICE tournament...:pirate:

I don't think you should practice what you see that moment. That sounds like a good way to ensure that your second and third rounds are with players near the bottom of the field.

Save the practice for practice time. In tournaments, play the game you know.

[Sam]

So was I! But unless we go back to the Stone Age of disc golf and just have 2 divisions: Pro & Am; some people will just keep passing on the pablum of "play up so you'll get better".:pirate:

One man's pablum is another man's truth. Maybe playing with better players hasn't benefitted you but I know many, many people who have benefitted from this.

[all2common]

I too used to believe in "playing your rating". That was until my rating kept getting lower and lower while playing MA2. At that rate, I felt like I was going to be MA2 for life! Then I moved to MA1 where all the people have better ratings. Once I got over that realization that I'm just as good as those guys, and worked on my consistency, that I'd be competitive in that division. So far, although not in the top 3 ever, I feel that I've been competitive. And my rating has gone up and will do so in the near future.

[Sam]

TESTIFY! TESTIFY!
:laughing:

[SMOKIN JOE]

if the rules allow you to play what ever division you can. Why would it matter to anyone else what someone wants to do. If the P.D.G.A. allows it so should evryone else. Don't like it. Get the P.D.G.A. to change it. Saying someone shouldn't seems a bit rude to me.:cop:

[black mamba]

sam, i totally agree with the osmosis belief.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

I'm really confused here! :chinscratch: I just went and looked at players list and SAM is still playing Advanced. :shocked: Sam, if you have any interest in getting better, MOVE UP! :cop:

Bob:laughing::laughing::laughing:

[snap7times]

I too used to believe in "playing your rating". That was until my rating kept getting lower and lower while playing MA2. At that rate, I felt like I was going to be MA2 for life! Then I moved to MA1 where all the people have better ratings. Once I got over that realization that I'm just as good as those guys, and worked on my consistency, that I'd be competitive in that division. So far, although not in the top 3 ever, I feel that I've been competitive. And my rating has gone up and will do so in the near future.

Uhhh, I've played a few rounds with all2common, there seems to be a something he left out on that testimony.... he failed to mention that the reason his rating was going down, was that he just sucked; flat out sucked :laughing:
Just kidding there... I believe there is a certain concept that is behind playing up. Some of us are playing up one division and claiming that osmosis works, which is true most of the time... however I believe this conversation started from the concept of playing 2-3 divisions up, not one, so hence the testimony given recently only applies to those who play up one division, not two...
The reason I haven't played up in ADV most of this year is the simple fact that I keep playing in tournaments at courses that I have little to zero experience at..
And I kinda hoped to play the short layout twice at Dexter, which I have never been able to play half the holes in their shorter pin placements, which I believe MA2 to play twice, I hope...

[snap7times]

I'm really confused here! :chinscratch: I just went and looked at players list and SAM is still playing Advanced. :shocked: Sam, if you have any interest in getting better, MOVE UP! :cop:

Bob:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Sam is relying on "natural progression" to get him to Open someday, so let it "naturally happen"... If you ask me, I think he's peaked... His other half will soon overtake him...

[Flash]

Uhhh, I've played a few rounds with all2common, there seems to be a something he left out on that testimony.... he failed to mention that the reason his rating was going down, was that he just sucked; flat out sucked :laughing:
Just kidding there... I believe there is a certain concept that is behind playing up. Some of us are playing up one division and claiming that osmosis works, which is true most of the time... however I believe this conversation started from the concept of playing 2-3 divisions up, not one, so hence the testimony given recently only applies to those who play up one division, not two...
The reason I haven't played up in ADV most of this year is the simple fact that I keep playing in tournaments at courses that I have little to zero experience at..
And I kinda hoped to play the short layout twice at Dexter, which I have never been able to play half the holes in their shorter pin placements, which I believe MA2 to play twice, I hope...

Sorry Buddy you will be playing with the Pro's most likely and that means you will play their layout.

[Toby Puttzinski]

As a competitive Advanced player, I moved up to Pro for a few tourneys over the past year and had very poor results... I was putting extra pressure on myself to play well, which contributed to my poor play. I realized that I would eventually become more comfortable through tournament experience, while learning from those with more experience, natural ability, and skill than I-- but it was very discouraging to know that I'd be donating most of the time.

For me, there were several reasons that compelled me to continue playing advanced:
It costs less for me to play Advanced than Open...
I like t-shirts and CFR discs...
I lack consistency, a side-arm, and index fingers(ok, just seeing if you're still with me)
I have a chance to win, not an 'outside chance' to cash...
I can still compete against players that are as good or better... just not exponentially better.
If I wanted to sponsor Nate Sexton, I'd just write him a check...

[Darr]

I have CRUSHED my personal best at every course I have played this year.
I attribute that mostly to:

TEAM DISC GOLF! Playing in the winter teaches you to slow down and manage the course. I also played matches with and against some of the best players in the state! :rockon:

VAPOR TRAILS! My teammates have been there year round to practice and compete against each other pushing each other to improve our game. One in particular who happens to be one of the best in Oregon! :nahnah: :rockon:

I still have a lot of work to do, see this past weekend:

43 845
40 863 :slapface::slapface:

But I would say that

34 986
Is a little above my 901 rating :rockon::rockon::rockon::whistler:

I would say you're both right. :yay::yay::yay::kissflowers:

[Toby Puttzinski]

or just pay for a 1:1 lesson...

[TYVEK]

I am one of the people that moved up before my rating says i should. i have never regretted it for a second! my rating is 905 and i play in the open division. i am always in the bottom 10 players, usually closer to last place, but it is totally worth it for me!

Throughout my rounds in tournaments i am learning how the "pros" play. i learn the different lines they take and decisions that they make. It also forces me to take my game more seriously during the tournament. I have improved greatly so far, and am still gaining consistency and more skills.

one other thing that i really like about playing with the pros is that they are just better people to play with. they are not so uptight and nervous during the tournament like the lower division players. it is just seems more relaxed and more fun playing with the pro groups. and they are taking the tournament seriously, which is what i am looking for.

on a side note, i look at it like lessons. i pay 80-100 dollars to play, and if i do end up in last place i think to myself "at least i learned some stuff and i got to fatten the payout for the pros. and i learn how to play better.

People should be able to play up if they want to, who cares if a 880 rated player wants to play in the open division, they learn faster and fatten the pro payout. if you want to stay in Ma2 division until your 40, go right ahead but some of us have higher asperations than just playing in a division because your rating is high enough.

[all2common]

Uhhh, I've played a few rounds with all2common, there seems to be a something he left out on that testimony.... he failed to mention that the reason his rating was going down, was that he just sucked; flat out sucked :laughing:

Now there's an example of osmosis.

[Sam]

one other thing that i really like about playing with the pros is that they are just better people to play with.

Wow... you haven't played with some of our pros down here, have you? :laughing:

[Ol' Bob]

I find that playing with people with longer drives than mine hasn't lengthened my drive one bit. Pretty disappointing. At least mine do go as far into the rough as theirs.

[TYVEK]

Wow... you haven't played with some of our pros down here, have you? :laughing:

a few, but not many. the ones that travel up here to washington have all been great players and had good sportsmanship. the most i played with was at BSF and all was good there to.

[Scott]

the ones that travel up here to washington have all been great players and had good sportsmanship. We only let our finest pros travel. The rest we keep locked away down here.

[olydiscgolf]

I thinks it's ironic that people play up divisions to play with better people, but when playing the bottom of that division end up getting placed on a mixed division card. Granted, you do possibly get to play one round with the top pros, but you still end up playing with players in your skill set or worse, whatever division they may be in. It seems to me that the bottom card of the top division isn't the place to learn how to compete! I see more competition in the lead card for intermediate than the bottom of the pro card. From what I've experienced, handling the "competition" is the way to get better!

I learn technique from practicing. I learn how to "WIN" from competing against people close to my level. I learn course management from knowing and playing course.

If you want to hang with the pros, follow in the gallery!

[snap7times]

Now there's an example of osmosis.

LOL, oh burnnnnnn burnnnn, call the fire department, I've been burned! Well, Flash, I want to play the short layout... so waiting on pools etc, so I can better plan etc... and maybe beg to move to another division to match my schedule.. Since i am driving 10 hours bleh...

[DMajor]

I believe the ratings guidelines were established to prevent people from sandbagging not the other way around. If you want to donate and are not having a negative impact on people in the division your playing with than go for it. Time will tell if it works.

[Scott]

I believe the ratings guidelines were established to prevent people from sandbagging not the other way around. If you want to donate and are not having a negative impact on people in the division your playing with than go for it. Time will tell if it works.

Actually, there is a negative impact. Each division becomes less competitive from top to bottom.

In the "Everyone plays by ratings" model, you have several smaller but equal sized divisions that are competitive from top to bottom. In other words, players near the bottim of the division may only be a few strokes away from those near the top. That makes for some very exciting golf.

In the "Play Wherever the Hell You Feel Like" model, you have a couple of very large divisions that end up being seperated by 30-40 strokes or more - sometimes a LOT more. These divisions usually end up informally divided anyway; the top half and the bottom half. This is less exciting, unless you are near the top of the top half.

[Sam]

I want to commend Scott on his very fair and unbiased (Fox News style) post about playing up. :rolleyes2:

I do not see each division becoming less competitive in the same way Scott does. For me, I am excited to see a bigger field in my division because of an increased payout and because there are more and more players who want to play with the big boys and recognize that a stint in Advanced will help them become better players.

I really do not believe that this is still being debated. If you want to stay at about the same level you are at and improve slowly, stay where you are and enjoy the Recreational division to your heart's content. We need many of these players at our tournaments so that those of us who play in the more serious divisions appear better by comparison.

If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are, examine what they are doing and why, and then take that away and practice the skills you need to achieve the same or similar results.

No brainer here, really. I think we have dozens and dozens of examples of this working just in our area alone.

[Jonny Roc]

I want to commend Scott on his very fair and unbiased (Fox News style) post about playing up. :rolleyes2:

I do not see each division becoming less competitive in the same way Scott does. For me, I am excited to see a bigger field in my division because of an increased payout and because there are more and more players who want to play with the big boys and recognize that a stint in Advanced will help them become better players.

I really do not believe that this is still being debated. If you want to stay at about the same level you are at and improve slowly, stay where you are and enjoy the Recreational division to your heart's content. We need many of these players at our tournaments so that those of us who play in the more serious divisions appear better by comparison.

If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are, examine what they are doing and why, and then take that away and practice the skills you need to achieve the same or similar results.

No brainer here, really. I think we have dozens and dozens of examples of this working just in our area alone.




Well Put Sam :trophy:

[Scott]

I want to commend Scott on his very fair and unbiased (Fox News style) post about playing up. :rolleyes2:

I do not see each division becoming less competitive in the same way Scott does. For me, I am excited to see a bigger field in my division because of an increased payout and because there are more and more players who want to play with the big boys and recognize that a stint in Advanced will help them become better players.

I really do not believe that this is still being debated. If you want to stay at about the same level you are at and improve slowly, stay where you are and enjoy the Recreational division to your heart's content. We need many of these players at our tournaments so that those of us who play in the more serious divisions appear better by comparison.

If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are, examine what they are doing and why, and then take that away and practice the skills you need to achieve the same or similar results.

No brainer here, really. I think we have dozens and dozens of examples of this working just in our area alone.


I'm getting a jab from Sam about being unfair and biased? :rolleyes2:

Sam, we are almost in agreement on this. I do agree that the way to get better is to play with better players. I agree 100%. No argument whatsoever.

I just don't think the time to do it is at a tournament. Practice with someone better. Learn new tricks. Develop them. Then take them to a tournament and kick ass (among players of your level). When you start beating them consisitently it will be obvious when it is time to move up.

[jevon]

If you want to become a better tournament disc golfer, however, you should play tournaments with players who are better than you are...


Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do. How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?

[TYVEK]

Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do. How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?

its really not true that you will only get one round with people better than you. i have had tournaments that i have played with other pro cards the whole tournament, i have also had tournaments where i am playing with some adv guys.

and just following the pros in the gallery is TOTALLY different than playing with them in a group. while playing in the group, you see things that you just dont see from the gallery, and there is interaction between players in the group that the gallery doesnt have with the players.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do. How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?

^^^^^^^^^^

What Jevon said! :cop:

Bob

[Sam]

I just don't think the time to do it is at a tournament. Practice with someone better. Learn new tricks. Develop them. Then take them to a tournament and kick ass (among players of your level). When you start beating them consisitently it will be obvious when it is time to move up.

The thing is, you practice with someone better and you do not get the valuable tournament experience you are looking for. We are talking about being a better tournament player here. Do not practice new things in the tournament but observe and take mental notes for things you want to practice in your casual rounds and practice days.

[Sam]

Hasn't it already been pointed out that you will only play maybe one round with those that are better than you? After that you will be playing with people that suck as much as you do.

MAYBE this is the case. Many times, however, you will still be playing with people better than you if you have moved up to a high enough level. Am I suggesting Novice and Rec play pro? No. They can get some experience playing Intermediate or Advanced that they do not currently have.

How is that learning? It would seem to me that if I were going to play the majority of the tournament with players of my own skill level, why not do so in a division I would have a chance at doing better in? If I want to see what better players do then why not just join the gallery?

Because as a part of the gallery, you are not always privy to the banter and the interaction that goes on on the card. As part of the gallery, you do not get the instant feedback from the players on shots you throw.

[CarlitosBonitos]

I have been playing for 5 years now and I played my first tournment 3 years ago (Willamette Open) I left the tournament pissed off, because I played poorly and wound up with some real douchey characters that cursed and talked and threw out of turn, etc. That was my first tournament in Intermediate and my last. I moved up to Advanced with a sub 900 rating, and I am yet to take last place, I have not come close to the top card, but I am having a blast. To the point about if you suck you will play with others that suck by the end of the tourney... that is not true if you suck in a division above your rating... then you will likely be playing with kick ass golfers who happened to have a bad round, and it helps me stay focused on forgetting the past and moving forward.

I had a baby this year, so I had only played in one rated tourney prior to the last ratings update, which happened to be the day after my sisters wedding in which I played like crap due to a huge hangover. Anyways my rating may be 904, but I can compete within the advanced division and almost surely have a great weekend.

Let people play where they like, if there wasnt some truth to the fact that the intermediate division is completly lame and the frustrating characters that it attracts; then why is every one moving up? My answer is to get away from the flamers.

Of course I should point out I am generalizing, not every intermediate golfer is a douche or flamer, but a majority I would say are.

[snap7times]

its really not true that you will only get one round with people better than you. i have had tournaments that i have played with other pro cards the whole tournament, i have also had tournaments where i am playing with some adv guys.

and just following the pros in the gallery is TOTALLY different than playing with them in a group. while playing in the group, you see things that you just dont see from the gallery, and there is interaction between players in the group that the gallery doesnt have with the players.

uhhhh... I dunno which tournaments you have played in, but a tournament where they actually pair you up with other divisions during the course of the tournament? WTH, that is bogus, you play with the division you signed up for period, so ofc duh, you would play with "pros" the whole tournament, but if 10 other sub900 players are in the division as well, you are really playing with those who you should be playing with in a lower and more appropriate division right?

I'm playing intermediate, guess i'm a douche bag... Carlitos, meet me on tee 1, let's see who's a douche and a flamer :nahnah:

[Scott]

I have been playing for 5 years now and I played my first tournment 3 years ago (Willamette Open) I left the tournament pissed off, because I played poorly and wound up with some real douchey characters that cursed and talked and threw out of turn, etc. That was my first tournament in Intermediate and my last. I moved up to Advanced with a sub 900 rating, and I am yet to take last place, I have not come close to the top card, but I am having a blast. To the point about if you suck you will play with others that suck by the end of the tourney... that is not true if you suck in a division above your rating... then you will likely be playing with kick ass golfers who happened to have a bad round, and it helps me stay focused on forgetting the past and moving forward.

I had a baby this year, so I had only played in one rated tourney prior to the last ratings update, which happened to be the day after my sisters wedding in which I played like crap due to a huge hangover. Anyways my rating may be 904, but I can compete within the advanced division and almost surely have a great weekend.

Let people play where they like, if there wasnt some truth to the fact that the intermediate division is completly lame and the frustrating characters that it attracts; then why is every one moving up? My answer is to get away from the flamers.

Of course I should point out I am generalizing, not every intermediate golfer is a douche or flamer, but a majority I would say are.

You always play advanced? Wasn't that you on my card in the Intermediate division at Wortman earlier this year? If so, which one was I: the douche or the flamer? :chinscratch:

[TYVEK]

uhhhh... I dunno which tournaments you have played in, but a tournament where they actually pair you up with other divisions during the course of the tournament? WTH, that is bogus, you play with the division you signed up for period, so ofc duh, you would play with "pros" the whole tournament, but if 10 other sub900 players are in the division as well, you are really playing with those who you should be playing with in a lower and more appropriate division right?

Well, welcome to washington disc golf. even though the Rule book says that there is not supposed to be any intermixing of divisions, the TD's up here seem to think it is ok to do. I dont really like it when it happens, but it doesnt make that much of a difference to me. i would rather put my energy into try to improve my performance instead of complaining to the TD.

and there usually isnt anybody even close to my rating in the tournaments i play in, so just about everybody in the pro division is better than i am.

see my signature "team last place" i have embraced it. :dancing:

[olydiscgolf]

With out limiting the number of entries per division, there is no way to not have mixed cards. Unless of course every division just happens to be divisable by 4 or 5 depending on group size. I beleive the rules say you should "try" not to mix divisions, but sometimes you have to.

[Tim]

With out limiting the number of entries per division, there is no way to not have mixed cards. Unless of course every division just happens to be divisable by 4 or 5 depending on group size. I beleive the rules say you should "try" not to mix divisions, but sometimes you have to.

Exactly. Thanks for the explanation, Chris. If divisions have to be mixed, TDs will usually try to at least keep the levels together, i.e. Open with Open Masters. But, that's just not the way it always works out, sometimes there has to be a mix and match, and you try to at least keep the level of experience together.

[Flatroc]

Because as a part of the gallery, you are not always privy to the banter and the interaction that goes on on the card. As part of the gallery, you do not get the instant feedback from the players on shots you throw.

Last July I had the pleasure to observe and listen to the best golfers in the world! :bowing:

I was at the First Class Challenge, a 3 day, 5 course NT event in Des Moines.
Once there was a lead card I was with them for the next 4 rounds (before the galleries started appearing), including an all day caddy for an ex world champ.
Leviska, Feldberg, Jenkins, Orum and Climo were a few of the fellers that I got to hang out with.
I've only been playing disc golf for 20 years so I knew there was still lots I could learn and these fellers showed some stuff. :wink2:
Listening to talk of angles, lines, discs, arm speeds has greatly influenced me.
Is it going to make me better?
Not sure but at least I'll know better.

Ratings will probably, more than likely, eventually work to their fullest.
I still feel that we should know what division we should play in regardless of what numbers are next to our names.
We only need to have integrity and be true to ourselves.

[CarlitosBonitos]

You always play advanced? Wasn't that you on my card in the Intermediate division at Wortman earlier this year? If so, which one was I: the douche or the flamer? :chinscratch:

Scott, I clearly stated I have only played one tournament this year (prior to the last round rating adjustments) and it was the morning after my sisters wedding, so I played Intermediate as I was still drunk, I also made a point to mention that not every intermediate player is either a douche or flamer, to avoid comments/ backlash like yours, so thanks for ignoring my post and deciding you would like to continue the endless chatter rather than discuss the actual point.

[Scott]

Scott, I clearly stated I have only played one tournament this year (prior to the last round rating adjustments) and it was the morning after my sisters wedding, so I played Intermediate as I was still drunk, I also made a point to mention that not every intermediate player is either a douche or flamer, to avoid comments/ backlash like yours, so thanks for ignoring my post and deciding you would like to continue the endless chatter rather than discuss the actual point.

Whoa. Kidding. Thought you would see that. Chill.

[Flatroc]

With out limiting the number of entries per division, there is no way to not have mixed cards. Unless of course every division just happens to be divisable by 4 or 5 depending on group size. I beleive the rules say you should "try" not to mix divisions, but sometimes you have to.

Limited or capped divisions IMO are more fair than making/forcing someone to play in any division that they didn't sign up for. :wink2:
Yep, capped divisions are effective but highly controversial.:whistler:

[blang11]

This thread is personally relevant to me since this weekend I will be playing in my first open division tournament (Lava Launch). It's anyone's guess whether or not I've "outgrown" the advanced division that I've recently been competing in. I don't even have an official rating yet. If I had to estimate -- and I'm told this is tricky to figure out -- I'd say I'm somewhere close to 970. I think the time is right to move up and here is my reasoning:

I've competed in four tournaments, half of which were more challenging Oregon Series events, and the rest were somewhat less challenging. I've placed in the top three each time, and some of those weekends I was just "off". I figure I should no longer compete in a division where I EXPECT to take 1st, or finish top 3 even if I screw up. Now that I do expect those kinds of results, it seems unfair. I need to have my feet held to the fire and get beaten handily when I can't make 15 foot putts. Having said that, I have had a total blast starting out with players who could definitely still teach me things. If I went straight to Pro for my first tournament (if that is even allowed), I would have been a travesty! Not only would I have been way too nervous, but I didn't really know the rules as much as one should. There are many things a disc golfer has to know before competing at the top level besides just throwing a disc far, accurately, etc. Fortunately, I think I've moved at the right pace, and I'm thankful that most people that I've played with so far have been awesome in every way. Fun, supportive, challenging... the list goes on.

I have compared my tournament scores with those of the Open Division and I'm usually placing about middle of the pack which I guess from a statistical point of view is "fair", though maybe not as exciting. I fully expect to be humbled this weekend, and I'm actually really looking forward to it. We'll see how my attitude changes over time.

Anyone who is concerned about the balance of cost vs. return is perfectly justified. Some disc golfers don't make a lot of money off the course (gasp!) My decision to move up was made all too simple when Next Adventure decided to sponsor me. Now that my disc golf costs are covered, it's a simple matter of worrying about my performance and progression, not just breaking even financially. I suppose that makes me very lucky...and I know it! Thanks Next Adventure!

[snap7times]

Whoa. Kidding. Thought you would see that. Chill.

I'll answer your question.. You are the Douche Bag... :rockon::kissflowers:

[smobro]

I suppose that makes me very lucky...and I know it! Thanks Next Adventure![/QUOTE]

Tru dat! Good luck out there and you most certainly have the skills to play with the big dogs. Go get em'! Don't be surprised if you perform well. Athletes excel at this game for sure.
The Pro cards in Oregon are crazy deep with talent. I would love to see an interstate challenge soon.

[Flash]

This thread is personally relevant to me since this weekend I will be playing in my first open division tournament (Lava Launch). It's anyone's guess whether or not I've "outgrown" the advanced division that I've recently been competing in. I don't even have an official rating yet. If I had to estimate -- and I'm told this is tricky to figure out -- I'd say I'm somewhere close to 970. I think the time is right to move up and here is my reasoning:

I've competed in four tournaments, half of which were more challenging Oregon Series events, and the rest were somewhat less challenging. I've placed in the top three each time, and some of those weekends I was just "off". I figure I should no longer compete in a division where I EXPECT to take 1st, or finish top 3 even if I screw up. Now that I do expect those kinds of results, it seems unfair. I need to have my feet held to the fire and get beaten handily when I can't make 15 foot putts. Having said that, I have had a total blast starting out with players who could definitely still teach me things. If I went straight to Pro for my first tournament (if that is even allowed), I would have been a travesty! Not only would I have been way too nervous, but I didn't really know the rules as much as one should. There are many things a disc golfer has to know before competing at the top level besides just throwing a disc far, accurately, etc. Fortunately, I think I've moved at the right pace, and I'm thankful that most people that I've played with so far have been awesome in every way. Fun, supportive, challenging... the list goes on.

I have compared my tournament scores with those of the Open Division and I'm usually placing about middle of the pack which I guess from a statistical point of view is "fair", though maybe not as exciting. I fully expect to be humbled this weekend, and I'm actually really looking forward to it. We'll see how my attitude changes over time.

Anyone who is concerned about the balance of cost vs. return is perfectly justified. Some disc golfers don't make a lot of money off the course (gasp!) My decision to move up was made all too simple when Next Adventure decided to sponsor me. Now that my disc golf costs are covered, it's a simple matter of worrying about my performance and progression, not just breaking even financially. I suppose that makes me very lucky...and I know it! Thanks Next Adventure!

Brice, I understand that you want to move up and see how you play with stiffer competition but just remember you do not have to accept cash if you finish in the prize, you can accept scrip instead and maintain your amateur status. If indeed you are ranked above 970 you will not be able to return to the amateur ranks if you accept cash. Also if you have ever thought about contending for a Amateur world title you will not be able to do so. I am not trying to scare you into staying Am status just want you to know what your options are and the outcome of some of your choices. Good luck at the Lava Launch and don't forget to ask if you are unsure!

[Sausage Fingers]

Brice, I understand that you want to move up and see how you play with stiffer competition but just remember you do not have to accept cash if you finish in the prize, you can accept scrip instead and maintain your amateur status. If indeed you are ranked above 970 you will not be able to return to the amateur ranks if you accept cash. Also if you have ever thought about contending for a Amateur world title you will not be able to do so. I am not trying to scare you into staying Am status just want you to know what your options are and the outcome of some of your choices. Good luck at the Lava Launch and don't forget to ask if you are unsure!

While this thread's argument CAN be applied to moving up from AM to PRO, I am mostly talking about picking the right AM division to play in based on your abilities and rate of improvement.:pirate:

[Sam]

Accept the cash, Brice!!! It's been fun playing with you but it's time for you to go! :laughing:

Seriously, though... tear it up, man. It's been a pleasure to see you burst onto the scene and rock the Advanced division but I definitely feel that you are a pro-caliber player. Have fun and do not worry about the nerves. Those happen to the best of pros and will ebb with time.

:cheers:

[blang11]

Haha, yeah I feel you on that one, Sam! You have been really good to me as far as being supportive and friendly, and we all know now that my Am time is over...and rightfully so! I had an absolute blast at the Lava Launch competing against other open players. Special thanks to Mike Suchocki, and Andy Hock who, perhaps unknowingly, served as guides for me during my first pro outing. After this weekend, I am very happy about my decision to move up and continue challenging myself.

As for declining cash to qualify for Am Worlds, I did give it a lot of thought, but in the end I decided to take the money and make my transition official. I sought the advice of many pro players who said the payoff for a national title in AM isn't all that great, and to decline a whole year's worth of cash is not that enticing of an idea, especially considering that anything can happen during worlds: shitty play, injury, etc. Then how would I feel after sacrificing for so long?

Ultimately, I am extremely fortunate to have the support of Next Adventure for investing in me personally, and the disc golf community at large. Without them, I would have had a much tougher dilemma making all of these decisions. I'm on the gravy boat!

P.S. Check out Next Adventure's facebook page to see the video I uploaded of Nate Sexton "pure-ing" a Roc down the Cinder Cone hole on Mt. Bachelor from this weekend's Lava Launch. Epic!

[Sean Phillips]

Yes, you are very correct sir. Injury can ruin a whole year of declining cash. :headbang::headbang::headbang:

[Bullseye]

Yes, you are very correct sir. Injury can ruin a whole year of declining cash. :headbang::headbang::headbang:

A year? I thought you declined for about 3 years, but hey... who's counting :p