Willamette Open 2009 - October 3-4

[all2common]

What happens when you run out of discs? Forfeit?

[Sam]

Bring it Brody. I will happily play you at my home course for this basket. :)

[Sam]

What happens when you run out of discs? Forfeit?

We had this discussion after Shaun's 22. We couldn't figure out the answer.

Anyone?

[Casey]

What happens when you run out of discs? Forfeit?

Can't you just add a 7 (like if you would have skipped the hole) to the 20-40 strokes you'd already have for the hole and move on to the next hole?

[Sam]

Nope. You have to hole out.

Can you retrieve discs that you have thrown out of bounds and throw those again? I have heard that you cannot do this but I have never seen the actual rule stating it.

[LegoRules]

Hey all I felt bad for taking both of the baskets in the raffle. I should have told them to re-draw after I won the first but I was sort of in shock. I felt like a total louse as I worked to fit both in my car along with the lunchtime basket.

Anyone who is up for it I'm going to put up one the baskets tomorrow night at lunchtime to the lowest score. I'll throw in one of the Innova tshirts I won for second. 6pm.

Hey another option to consider would be to donate it to the Hope Open for their raffle. The proceeds of the raffle are all going to the American Cancer Society. You could go from feeling like a louse to feeling really good about donating to a great cause. :wink2:

Cindy :)

[Altophish]

Let's not forget that you had the option to lay up on hole 11 so if you threw all your plastic OB or in the water then you really only have one place to look when you start pointing fingers of blame for a bad score.

Tournament was great! Thanks again to the Willamette Club and everyone else who helped out this weekend!

[Casey]

Let's not forget that you had the option to lay up on hole 11 so if you threw all your plastic OB or in the water then you really only have one place to look when you start pointing fingers of blame for a bad score.

Tournament was great! Thanks again to the Willamette Club and everyone else who helped out this weekend!

I agree with this too, nobody to blame but yourself. I just like the idea of saving people from themselvs at some point, especially on a hole like this that is intended to be perilous.

[shonfry]

Hey another option to consider would be to donate it to the Hope Open for their raffle. The proceeds of the raffle are all going to the American Cancer Society. You could go from feeling like a louse to feeling really good about donating to a great cause. :wink2:

Cindy :)


This is a GREAT idea:trophy::cheerleader::trophy::cheerleader: :trophy::cheerleader::trophy::cheerleader:

[Sam]

Hey another option to consider would be to donate it to the Hope Open for their raffle. The proceeds of the raffle are all going to the American Cancer Society. You could go from feeling like a louse to feeling really good about donating to a great cause. :wink2:

Cindy :)

I like this idea, too. Do that, Dave. No more feeling like a louse for supporting the raffle. :cheers:

["Over the Hill" Bob]

I like this idea, too. Do that, Dave. No more feeling like a louse for supporting the raffle. :cheers:

First let me say there is no need to feel like a louse for supporting the raffle. You are just plain a lucky guy.

Second let me say.............yes...........please donate to the Hope Open and the American Cancer Society. :cheers:

Bob

[LegoRules]

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Babuka
Hey all I felt bad for taking both of the baskets in the raffle. I should have told them to re-draw after I won the first but I was sort of in shock. I felt like a total louse as I worked to fit both in my car along with the lunchtime basket.

Anyone who is up for it I'm going to put up one the baskets tomorrow night at lunchtime to the lowest score. I'll throw in one of the Innova tshirts I won for second. 6pm.

Quote:
Hey another option to consider would be to donate it to the Hope Open for their raffle. The proceeds of the raffle are all going to the American Cancer Society. You could go from feeling like a louse to feeling really good about donating to a great cause.

Cindy

I like this idea, too. Do that, Dave. No more feeling like a louse for supporting the raffle. :cheers:

I defiantly do not think you are a louse for supporting the WO raffle, and I really don't think anyone else does. Just maybe a little jealous that you were so lucky. :) I was just trying to interject a little humor in my post based off of your post. Whatever you decide to do with the basket it is very generous of you. :kissflowers:

Cindy :)

[gwillim]

803.04 - H
"The player may not retrieve the originally thrown disc prior to the re-throw, except in the case of a putt from within 10 meters. Where a disc is retrieved in violation of this rule, a one throw penalty shall be imposed without a warning."

This rule is in relation to a stance violation specifically. It should apply to discs thrown O.B. as well, but I can't find any evidence of this like I assumed I would.

If this rule does apply to discs thrown O.B., then I would think that worst case scenario would be that you just walk up and grab one of your discs and have a single penalty stroke (separate from the ob stroke, of course) assessed for your action, then be REAL careful for the rest of the hole with that disc.

Pinkal, where you at?

Another option would be to borrow a disc from someone else in your group, if they let you. That is NOT illegal. However, if you run out of discs from throwing them in the water, irretrievably, and no one in your group is willing to let you throw their plastic (possibly in the water), then you just DQ'd yourself.

[David Babuka]

Ok then I'm totally into the idea of donating as well. Now I just hope someone doesn't show up tomorrow night and get mad at me. Whoever knows how I can get the basket to someone for the Hope Open raffle drop me a note.

Thanks for the idea it is a great one!

[LegoRules]

Ok then I'm totally into the idea of donating as well. Now I just hope someone doesn't show up tomorrow night and get mad at me. Whoever knows how I can get the basket to someone for the Hope Open raffle drop me a note.

Thanks for the idea it is a great one!

PM sent. You sir ROCK. :rockon:

Thank you so much for helping make this event a success. :cheerleader:

Cindy :)

[Flash]

803.04 - H
"The player may not retrieve the originally thrown disc prior to the re-throw, except in the case of a putt from within 10 meters. Where a disc is retrieved in violation of this rule, a one throw penalty shall be imposed without a warning."

This rule is in relation to a stance violation specifically. It should apply to discs thrown O.B. as well, but I can't find any evidence of this like I assumed I would.

If this rule does apply to discs thrown O.B., then I would think that worst case scenario would be that you just walk up and grab one of your discs and have a single penalty stroke (separate from the ob stroke, of course) assessed for your action, then be REAL careful for the rest of the hole with that disc.

Pinkal, where you at?

Another option would be to borrow a disc from someone else in your group, if they let you. That is NOT illegal. However, if you run out of discs from throwing them in the water, irretrievably, and no one in your group is willing to let you throw their plastic (possibly in the water), then you just DQ'd yourself.

801.03 Excessive Time
You could also run to your car and if you beat the 30 seconds required for your time to throw no penalty, if you are late 1 stroke penalty.

reference to --->803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off
The no retrieve you mentioned Ryan is so that there is still some level of penalty on a stance violation in case of the first time being a warning, sure it did not cost you a stroke for the warning but you can't retrieve and throw that disc again either. In the case of OB use 801.03, if you can retrieve it within 30 seconds, great no extra strokes, if you can't tack on another stroke for excessive time.

[TreeLove]

Ok then I'm totally into the idea of donating as well. Whoever knows how I can get the basket to someone for the Hope Open raffle drop me a note. Thanks for the idea it is a great one!

Class move, Babuka. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. :bowing:

[Magilla]

801.03 Excessive Time
You could also run to your car and if you beat the 30 seconds required for your time to throw no penalty, if you are late 1 stroke penalty.




The "30 seconds" rule is VERY beatable.....

"free of distractions" is quite broad....

Did you hear that bird? 30 secs starts over

He shuffled his feet.... 30 secs starts over

I farted... 30 secs start over

That cloud looks like a basket.... 30 secs starts over

A bug flew in front of me... 30 secs starts over

He told me I am close to my 30 secs... 30 secs starts over

:p

[Magilla]

803.04 - H[I]

Another option would be to borrow a disc from someone else in your group, if they let you. That is NOT illegal. However, if you run out of discs from throwing them in the water, irretrievably, and no one in your group is willing to let you throw their plastic (possibly in the water), then you just DQ'd yourself.

Ah, but then couldnt you DQ them for "unsportsman like conduct"?

:whistler:

[smobro]

The "30 seconds" rule is VERY beatable.....

"free of distractions" is quite broad....

Did you hear that bird? 30 secs starts over

He shuffled his feet.... 30 secs starts over

I farted... 30 secs start over

That cloud looks like a basket.... 30 secs starts over

A bug flew in front of me... 30 secs starts over

He told me I am close to my 30 secs... 30 secs starts over

:p

Elliott has to go back to his bag to put down his cigar..... 30 secs start over
Elliott has to go back to his bag to take another puff off cigar....30 secs start over
Elliott has to make fun of Reichard's treelove....30 secs start over
Elliott has to complain about his terrible putt on the last hole....30 secs start over

:biggrin2:

Seriously, I had a frickin' blast playing with the Crusties this weekend. Reichard, Stern, and Elliott are 3 awesome guys and there is no way I could have had a better time except if I had beaten them:nahnah:
Elliott is always a hoot, Gawain is the consumate positive attitude, and Rick is a true gentleman golfer. Thanks fellas for allowing me to be a spectator. But look out, you taught me a few things I intend to use against you next year:cheers: I can't wait.

[Sausage Fingers]

Elliott has to go back to his bag to put down his cigar..... 30 secs start over
Elliott has to go back to his bag to take another puff off cigar....30 secs start over
Elliott has to make fun of Reichard's treelove....30 secs start over
Elliott has to complain about his terrible putt on the last hole....30 secs start over

:biggrin2:

Seriously, I had a frickin' blast playing with the Crusties this weekend. Reichard, Stern, and Elliott are 3 awesome guys and there is no way I could have had a better time except if I had beaten them:nahnah:
Elliott is always a hoot, Gawain is the consumate positive attitude, and Rick is a true gentleman golfer. Thanks fellas for allowing me to be a spectator. But look out, you taught me a few things I intend to use against you next year:cheers: I can't wait.

Smo! Great improvement in your game this year! Congrats! You should play Team Disc Golf this winter so you can keep your game in top shape for next year! I hear there is plenty of room on Saturday to play...:pirate:

[smobro]

Smo! Great improvement in your game this year! Congrats! You should play Team Disc Golf this winter so you can keep your game in top shape for next year! I hear there is plenty of room on Saturday to play...


I would love to but I am taking some time away from the game to practice my putting. Gawain kept calling me "Jordan" every time I hit the bottom of the basket this weekend. :laughing:
Seriously though, I need to catch up with my family for a while. They have been very supportive but want to have me around more frequently. My guess is that will change soon since I am kind of a pain in the Arse:biggrin2:
I played alot of tourney golf this year and it has definitely made me better, but playing with the Crusties has certainly helped. Looking forward to getting on a card with you next year for sure.

[mikestorrs]

Dave, thanks a million for getting the TD report in. I hate that damn report. There is a shorter form for incarcerating someone.

I spotted hole 11 on Sat. I am actually pretty suprised that Shaun got a 22. I thought it was a 21 but you really lose count after the score reaches 15. Watching that go down was so hard. There should have been something to stop the pain.

Sorry Dion, but I am going to argue vehemetly against that type of hole next year. I saw a card with two 19's. I saw smart lay-ups turn into multiple bogeys. I saw one guy shoot a 11 while the rest of his card birdied. Those sort of scars will last a long time.

[Sausage Fingers]

Smo! Great improvement in your game this year! Congrats! You should play Team Disc Golf this winter so you can keep your game in top shape for next year! I hear there is plenty of room on Saturday to play...


I would love to but I am taking some time away from the game to practice my putting. Gawain kept calling me "Jordan" every time I hit the bottom of the basket this weekend. :laughing:
Seriously though, I need to catch up with my family for a while. They have been very supportive but want to have me around more frequently. My guess is that will change soon since I am kind of a pain in the Arse:biggrin2:
I played alot of tourney golf this year and it has definitely made me better, but playing with the Crusties has certainly helped. Looking forward to getting on a card with you next year for sure.

He wasn't calling YOU Jordan, just that you 'Jordan'ed your putts: Online right-to-left and just short so it hits the basket and drops to the ground in front of the basket (long roll away optional).

I used to do that ALL THE TIME (for YEARS!), and then I started to play Team Disc Golf in the winter and I was able to keep my skill level somewhat consistent from year to year. Now they don't happen to me as much, but the name has stuck, so I go with it. Another good name for it was the J-Low!:pirate:

And remember, playing TDG isn't as time consuming as playing the tourney circuit as they are all just one day events. And depending on your team, you can get away with just playing one of the two rounds so it doesn't even take up the whole day. I think that you should do it before I have to turn on the hard sell tactics...:biggrin2:

[Tim]

For those of us not familiar with the course, can someone explain the infamous hole 11?

[Casey]

For those of us not familiar with the course, can someone explain the infamous hole 11?

It was 240 ft from tee to basket, totally flat. There was a safety zone/fairway marked out for about 150ft off the tee that was about 50 ft wide so you could lay up and shoot over about 60 ft of OB to get to the "island green." The green was I believe a circle with a 30 ft radius but roughly the back 1/3 of that area was water. If you went OB you did not come back to where your disc was last in bounds but rather to where you were last playing, so a drive that lands on the green and scoots into the water results in a re-tee. A putt that hits the basket and rolls about 8 ft into the water results in doing that same putt over.

It was a fun concept but it got a bit silly when folks were just re-teeing over and over instead of laying up. I understand how hard it can be to lay up for a 7 instead of going for a 6, but at some point you have to give in to reality. This probably wouldn't have been much of an issue if it weren't for the fact that on Sat. afternoon we had about a 10-15 mph headwind coming off the water. In the morning my card took 10 combined strokes to hole out, in the afternoon my card of golfers of similar to better skill combined to take 25 strokes.

[snap7times]

In other words, this is a similar hole to hole 17 at USDGC. But it sounds like the landing zone around the basket was a bit smaller for sure. As for the rule of hitting inbounds and then going ob and having to re-tee, this is something the TD decided and could have changed? Just wondering... If it were me, I would have laid up probably, but can't say since I didnt see it.

[Tim]

Ouch, I can see how that'd mess with people. I'm guessing the logic behind the mandatory retee was to prevent people from simply bombing to the green, and having a relatively safe bid at a 3P if they happened to fly past. That makes sense, but I think if I made a hole like that, I'd put a drop zone at the end of the safety zone that people have to shoot from if they go OB on their drive. You'd still get punished for not making the green, but it wouldn't be blowing up your whole round on one hole.

[Scott]

It was 240 ft from tee to basket, totally flat. There was a safety zone/fairway marked out for about 150ft off the tee that was about 50 ft wide so you could lay up and shoot over about 60 ft of OB to get to the "island green." The green was I believe a circle with a 30 ft radius but roughly the back 1/3 of that area was water. If you went OB you did not come back to where your disc was last in bounds but rather to where you were last playing, so a drive that lands on the green and scoots into the water results in a re-tee. A putt that hits the basket and rolls about 8 ft into the water results in doing that same putt over.

It was a fun concept but it got a bit silly when folks were just re-teeing over and over instead of laying up. I understand how hard it can be to lay up for a 7 instead of going for a 6, but at some point you have to give in to reality. This probably wouldn't have been much of an issue if it weren't for the fact that on Sat. afternoon we had about a 10-15 mph headwind coming off the water. In the morning my card took 10 combined strokes to hole out, in the afternoon my card of golfers of similar to better skill combined to take 25 strokes.
803.09 B. A player whose disc is considered out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next shot from:
(1) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved from an approximate lie, as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official; or (2) A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. This holds true even if the direction takes the
lie closer to the hole; or (3) Within the designated Drop Zone, if provided. These options may be limited by the tournament director as a special condition (see 804.01).


804.01D. No rules may be stipulated which conflict with the PDGA Rules of Play, unless approved by the Tour Manager of the PDGA.

I wonder if the PDGA Tour Manager approved this rules change? :chinscratch:

[Casey]

Ouch, I can see how that'd mess with people. I'm guessing the logic behind the mandatory retee was to prevent people from simply bombing to the green, and having a relatively safe bid at a 3P if they happened to fly past. That makes sense, but I think if I made a hole like that, I'd put a drop zone at the end of the safety zone that people have to shoot from if they go OB on their drive. You'd still get punished for not making the green, but it wouldn't be blowing up your whole round on one hole.

That was the idea behind the whole safety zone/fairway, you should easily be able to hole out in 3 strokes at any point. You just had to give up the possability of getting there in 2 and apparently a good number of folks just won't lay up no matter how bad things are getting. In hind site I'm sure anyone that took more than a 7 probably wishes they would have laid up or even just skipped the hole and taken a 7, but you always think the next shot is going to be the one.

Those of us that made the green safely both rounds were lucky that we didn't have to find out how long we'd continue to throw OB drives without laying up. I'd like to think I'd take two shots at it and then lay up in hopes of a 7 but for some reason I think in the heat of the moment I'd be a little more stubborn and just keep driving.......

[scottycb1]

Its a 240 ft. Hole, if you cant make it you can lay up. The final three cards in pro were 12 for 12 with 11 birdies in the 2nd round. It was plenty fair.

[Bullseye]

Dave, thanks a million for getting the TD report in. I hate that damn report. There is a shorter form for incarcerating someone.

I spotted hole 11 on Sat. I am actually pretty suprised that Shaun got a 22. I thought it was a 21 but you really lose count after the score reaches 15. Watching that go down was so hard. There should have been something to stop the pain.

Sorry Dion, but I am going to argue vehemetly against that type of hole next year. I saw a card with two 19's. I saw smart lay-ups turn into multiple bogeys. I saw one guy shoot a 11 while the rest of his card birdied. Those sort of scars will last a long time.

Thank you for talking sense Mike. While I didn't see or play the hole in question, I have talked to several people who did and I have yet to hear anything good about it. It sounds very flukey and overly punishing to me. Especially when you hear about people who DID lay up and still took 5s or worse.

[jevon]

It sounds very flukey and overly punishing to me. Especially when you hear about people who DID lay up and still took 5s or worse.

It sounds like people can't putt... :whistler:

[Bullseye]

It sounds like people can't putt... :whistler:

No, I'm talking about open players who definitely CAN putt.

[Casey]

Its a 240 ft. Hole, if you cant make it you can lay up. The final three cards in pro were 12 for 12 with 11 birdies in the 2nd round. It was plenty fair.

NOBODY has said it wasn't fair. I really enjoyed the hole. It was just kind of a bummer that there wasn't anything in place to keep people from shooting themselvs in the foot over and over. It wasn't enjoyable to watch and everytime you heard talk around the course of the highest score on the hole rising from 11, to 15, to 19(2X) and finally 22 it went from kind of funny to kind of depressing. It overshadowed the standard talk of who is having great rounds and fighting for the lead. Again, it WAS FAIR, it just lessened the experience a bit for some of us, including those of us that got 2's and 3's on the thing. A lot of the blame for that lies on the folks refused to laid up.

As far as the pro's doing well on it, that's great! I think most of Advanced did quite well on it during the first round, we just got stuck with a mean wind coming off the water that kind of made landing the shot more difficult. Also, we're not as good as you guys, shhhh don't tell anyone.......

[Sausage Fingers]

803.09 B. A player whose disc is considered out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next shot from:
(1) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved from an approximate lie, as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official; or (2) A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. This holds true even if the direction takes the
lie closer to the hole; or (3) Within the designated Drop Zone, if provided. These options may be limited by the tournament director as a special condition (see 804.01).


804.01D. No rules may be stipulated which conflict with the PDGA Rules of Play, unless approved by the Tour Manager of the PDGA.

I wonder if the PDGA Tour Manager approved this rules change? :chinscratch:

Is it really a conflict when it is mentioned in the rules?

"These options may be limited" - the TD just said that your only option is #1
"No rules may be stipulated which conflict" - limiting the choices for 803.09B is allowed but the TD can't make up new things like "player must throw with off hand or with eyes closed or from your knees":pirate:

[Scott]

Is it really a conflict when it is mentioned in the rules?

"These options may be limited" - the TD just said that your only option is #1
"No rules may be stipulated which conflict" - limiting the choices for 803.09B is allowed but the TD can't make up new things like "player must throw with off hand or with eyes closed or from your knees":pirate:

But the rule stipulates the player can choose where to take their shot after going OB. If the TD says they can only re-tee then they have changed that rule, correct?

[Sausage Fingers]

But the rule stipulates the player can choose where to take their shot after going OB. If the TD says they can only re-tee then they have changed that rule, correct?

Nope! The TD has only limited the choices down to just one and it is mentioned in the same rule that the TD can do so.

I think I remember that the origin of the rule (804.01D) is so a TD can't place a multiple shot penalty on certain areas around the course. When I first started playing dg we used to make the bark dust around swings and playground equipment OB with +2 penalty for throwing there due the likelihood of children being there. The PDGA wanted to put the kibosh on that kind of thing.:pirate:

[Scott]

Nope! The TD has only limited the choices down to just one and it is mentioned in the same rule that the TD can do so.



I'm really not sure why I didn't catch that the first time. :slapface:

Time to go.

[LegoRules]

Smo! Great improvement in your game this year! Congrats! You should play Team Disc Golf this winter so you can keep your game in top shape for next year! I hear there is plenty of room on Saturday to play...


I would love to but I am taking some time away from the game to practice my putting. Gawain kept calling me "Jordan" every time I hit the bottom of the basket this weekend. :laughing:
Seriously though, I need to catch up with my family for a while. They have been very supportive but want to have me around more frequently. My guess is that will change soon since I am kind of a pain in the Arse:biggrin2:
I played alot of tourney golf this year and it has definitely made me better, but playing with the Crusties has certainly helped. Looking forward to getting on a card with you next year for sure.

Hey also it is not every weekend just 10 Saturday's really between now and Febuary. :)

Cindy :)

[Rideout]

I enjoy seeing challenging holes like #11. It looked into my eyes, it saw weakness, and it kicked me square in the teeth. After having a decent day at Adair on Saturday, I proceeded to add 20 strokes to my overall score from the two times I played hole #11. My first go at it, I threw two drives ob and then laid up. Then I proceeded to throw my upshot ob. I finally put it on the green and cashed the putt to end the hole with a 9. My second attempt at the hole had me throwing four drives ob before laying up (last round, a little less hope, a little more tin cup). This time I actually put my upshot on the green and made my putt to finish the hole with an 11.

In any given round I should be able to three the hole with little chance of error. I did not play the hole intelligently, I lacked confidence and conviction in my throws, and I suddenly collapsed mentally. Live and learn. I look forward to playing the hole next year and will be disappointed if I don’t get the chance to redeem myself.

Mike Rideout

[JMan]

Is there a pic? I wanna see the beast

[OneDarkRebel]

A lot of this information is old but it gives a little insight at least and some cool records of infamy...it lists the highest "pro" score on one hole to be a 27.

http://www.frivolist.com/records.htm

As far as hole 11 goes, I did enjoy it. I birdied the first round and in the second round, with the wind, I did choose to play conservative and lay up. Unfortunately I didn't execute in the wind and my 2nd, 3rd got pushed up and away and I took an 8 on that one. That's the way it goes though! Anyhow, if you haven't seen that website before it's a little outdated I think, but a fun one to check out!

[Casey]

Anyhow, if you haven't seen that website before it's a little outdated I think, but a fun one to check out!

Most likely is outdated now. Most OB's on a hole is claimed to be 9, unless there were several missed putts or a long lay up sequence involved the 22 on Saturday could have been done with as many as 10 OB's. Perhaps we were present for the setting of a new record, dubious as it might be.........:trophy::chinscratch:

[chanman]

Hey now. That hole was a great golf hole! If players are taking 22s on it, its their fault, not the courses! Most of the complaints Im reading are from people who WATCHED players play poorly on the hole, not those who PLAYED poorly on it. Everyone that I have talked to, who played poorly on the hole, loved it. I got a 5p on it, and it was my fault, not the holes. If people are really annoyed with that hole, they can place some AM tees on it or something. If anything, the hole strengthens players mental games. But personally, I think the hole is great and should not be changed.

[snap7times]

Live. Learn. Grow.

[T-what?]

Live. Learn. Grow.
WORD!:bowing:

[Micah]

I took a two on it first round and a ten second round, I liked the hole, it was fair, and I look forward to playing it again next year.