World Championships?

[Bob Horning]

About three weeks ago a few people approched Oregon Sports about hosting the World Championships here in Oregon in 2011. Supposably they were some of the organizers from the Beaver State Fling. I tried to follow up this week with Brian Graham from PDGA to find out what was going on and he said that no one submitted a bid for it, but that the Pro end of it was still up for bid. Does anyone know who the folks were and if there is still interest?
Thanks,
Bob

[gwillim]

About three weeks ago a few people approched Oregon Sports about hosting the World Championships here in Oregon in 2011. Supposably they were some of the organizers from the Beaver State Fling. I tried to follow up this week with Brian Graham from PDGA to find out what was going on and he said that no one submitted a bid for it, but that the Pro end of it was still up for bid. Does anyone know who the folks were and if there is still interest?
Thanks,
Bob

Bob,
I believe you need to speak with Mike Phillips.
-gw

[Tim]

Haha, I can guarantee there's still interest...worlds in OR seems to be a topic that resurrects itself every so often. I didn't realize 2011 was up for grabs. I'd say the feasibility is looking better than ever though...Milo East & West, Trojan, Pier, Horning's "Gold" are all (or will be) solid courses that would work. Possibly Timber, Dabney, and Horning's Canyon course could be utilized too?

[Chuck Kennedy]

You only need about four courses with each division playing three different and appropriate courses twice during prelims.

[bvdisc]

I talked to Cris about this a couple of months back and he was heading up the bid process. I'm not sure where that is at now that the Bellingers have stepped down from running the Oregon Series.

Their plan was to only use Milo McIver. Cris said that he had used BSF as an example and had convinced people that the two courses would be enough if we used tee times. That's about all I know.

-Ben

[Scott]

I think there was talking about setting up 1-2 temp additional courses at Milo

[Bob Horning]

I left a message with Mike to see if he's the one I should talk to. The reason I ask is because with the upgrades on the current course, the new course we're making, Milo, and with the new Stub Stewart (it should be a good tournament course too, we can make sure of that) that Oregon should be a prime candidate for the World Championships and I'm just trying to follow though on ideas already started somewhere.
Thanks

[bvdisc]

I think there was talking about setting up 1-2 temp additional courses at Milo

I figured that would be the case but when I spoke to Cris he specifically said they were not going to add additional courses to the BSF setup.

[Flash]

Yes I spoke with Oregon Sports Authority about submitting a bid to have worlds in Portland Oregon. Jeff Mittl and I had a meeting with the CEO of Oregon Sports Authority and things went really well. We however were not looking at the 2011 Worlds but the 2012 worlds, we would like to have a combined worlds event here in Portland. If I am involved and I am going to go through the work of putting on this caliber of event then I would want it to be grandiose, and that means a combined worlds event!

We are not planning anything official and have just been using the Beaver State Fling as an opportunity to sell the idea to some heavy hitters in Oregon to see if there is any interest. Jeff and I will continue looking into the worlds opportunities after the Beaver State Fling. The list of items that need to be in place and supported to even bid is significant and not just a checklist of items that would be nice to have. I recommend you all read it Worlds Bid Process (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/World%20Championship%20Bid%20process.pdf)

I asked Cris from a PDGA standpoint, if 2012 was available and he said it was not, it has already been given out. So we are not sure what we would want to do. We will have to see later. From a promoter stand point Cris is not interested in worlds at this time. Perhaps he will have a change of heart but for now he is not interested.

[Magilla]

Yes I spoke with Oregon Sports Authority about submitting a bid to have worlds in Portland Oregon. Jeff Mittl and I had a meeting with the CEO of Oregon Sports Authority and things went really well. We however were not looking at the 2011 Worlds but the 2012 worlds, we would like to have a combined worlds event here in Portland. If I am involved and I am going to go through the work of putting on this caliber of event then I would want it to be grandiose, and that means a combined worlds event!

We are not planning anything official and have just been using the Beaver State Fling as an opportunity to sell the idea to some heavy hitters in Oregon to see if there is any interest. Jeff and I will continue looking into the worlds opportunities after the Beaver State Fling. The list of items that need to be in place and supported to even bid is significant and not just a checklist of items that would be nice to have. I recommend you all read it Worlds Bid Process (http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/World%20Championship%20Bid%20process.pdf)

I asked Cris from a PDGA standpoint, if 2012 was available and he said it was not, it has already been given out. So we are not sure what we would want to do. We will have to see later. From a promoter stand point Cris is not interested in worlds at this time. Perhaps he will have a change of heart but for now he is not interested.

:cheers:

If I am correct...2010 is Pro/Am in Chicago (tentative)
2011 Am Worlds is already given out, NO ONE has bid for Pro Worlds yet (might go over seas :whistler: )
2012 Pro/Am Worlds was just given to Charlotte, NC

As Mike stated, the process and guidelines are QUITE extensive......It would be SWEET though.

:cheers:

[Bullseye]

:cheers:

If I am correct...2010 is Pro/Am in Chicago (tentative)
2011 Am Worlds is already given out, NO ONE has bid for Pro Worlds yet (might go over seas :whistler: )
2012 Pro/Am Worlds was just given to Charlotte, NC

As Mike stated, the process and guidelines are QUITE extensive......It would be SWEET though.

:cheers:

2011 Pro Worlds!!!! Lets doooo it!

[Scott]

Be patient.... How about a 2013 combined worlds? :drool:
Hell, by that time I might be good enough to compete in the damn thing. :laughing:

[Sam]

Let's do combined in 2013. Screw it. Let's just golf now!

[Tim]

That's going on the assumption that we'll all still be around in 2013. :whistler:

[Sam]

Oh yeah... the Mayans... Forgot about that. Stupid December 21st, 2012... screwing up the world for all of us.

[Chuck Kennedy]

If I am correct...2010 is Pro/Am in Chicago (tentative)

2010 Am Worlds on courses in several nearby small towns north of Columbus, Ohio

2010 Pro Worlds on the Lemon Lake 4-course complex near Chicago pending approval in June

[snap7times]

DO IT FOR 2011!
Hornings Canyon with a few more adjustments and GOLD Course
Pier
Dabney
Milo West/East
Trojan

With these as back ups
Rooster
Timber
Any more courses that get put up in the Portland metro area by then..

It can be done, just need a star studded committee...

[Scott]

Obviously I've never played a World's before. How well would the baskets at Horning's be received?

[bvdisc]

Obviously I've never played a World's before. How well would the baskets at Horning's be received?

There are strict rules on what baskets can be used in PDGA tournament. I haven't played on the hornings baskets but from what I've heard I don't think they can be used on B tier or above. Maybe it's just A tier and above.

But if worlds were coming I'm sure finding baskets wouldn't be an issue.

[Magilla]

DO IT FOR 2011!

It can be done, just need a star studded committee...

Getting a "Committee" is NOT the issue....Its the $$$$$'s req'd that is the MAJOR problem.
Know anyone with $100,000 to donate?

:cheers:

[snap7times]

fundraiserrrrrrr

["Over the Hill" Bob]

That's going on the assumption that we'll all still be around in 2013. :whistler:

Tim, was that a shot at me? :biggrin2:

Bob

[Ol' Bob]

Tim, was that a shot at me? :biggrin2:

Bob

I think that was a reference to Dismember 21st, 2012. I just saw a program on the History Channel and they said Nasty-Damn-Us sez we're all toast if we don't do right.

[Scott]

Tim, was that a shot at me? :biggrin2:

Bob

No, it is a reference to the Mayan calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Doomsday_Prediction), which allegedly ends in December, 2012.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

No, it is a reference to the Mayan calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Doomsday_Prediction), which allegedly ends in December, 2012.

I worry about being around in 2010. :whistler:First thing I do in the morning everyday is check the obituary in the paper. If I'm not listed, then I go ahead with my day. :D

Oh yeah, when I win the lottery this week, we'll have the money for Worlds.

Bob

[Bob Horning]

There are strict rules on what baskets can be used in PDGA tournament. I haven't played on the hornings baskets but from what I've heard I don't think they can be used on B tier or above. Maybe it's just A tier and above.

But if worlds were coming I'm sure finding baskets wouldn't be an issue.

Baskets used in any sactioned tournament above C has to be certified by the PDGA. When I comes tikme to make bakets for the new course they will have the same design as the Highland, short throw course, with the extra chains (better catching). I will be making an extra basket and sending it to PDGA to be certified (they keep it), since they are built to PDGA specs. Which brings up another subject, we need to call them something. INNOVA has such names as Mach 1, etc... What's some ideas out there for names? (be nice:nono:)

[Adam Schneider]

BH Truck Gongs.

[Scott]

Which brings up another subject, we need to call them something. INNOVA has such names as Mach 1, etc... What's some ideas out there for names? "#$%&!"

[Chuck Kennedy]

I will be making an extra basket and sending it to PDGA to be certified (they keep it), since they are built to PDGA specs.
Make sure to download and check out the new specs effective Feb 1, 2009 when you create these baskets.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGATechStandards_09.pdf

[Bob Horning]

Make sure to download and check out the new specs effective Feb 1, 2009 when you create these baskets.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGATechStandards_09.pdf

No worries:cheers:

[gwillim]

I like something with "gong" in it. The Canyon course baskets can be Horning Gong I, and the Highlands can be the Gong II or something?

[Jet]

INNOVA has such names as Mach 1, etc... What's some ideas out there for names? (be nice:nono:)
How about: The Canyonero (http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Canyonero)


Oh, wait. Simpsons already took it (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-56gL9MpyUDQ/canyonero_song/). :(

It's funnier in German. :laughing:

[Getty]

Which brings up another subject, we need to call them something. INNOVA has such names as Mach 1, etc... What's some ideas out there for names? (be nice:nono:)

Chain Bang Incident

[Greg_R]

Raising money for a combined worlds is not a huge difficulty... every disc golf brand basically breaks down the door trying to throw product and cash your way. Oregon Sports Authority has a large amount of money as well (should they elect to grant us some funds).

Sadly, the baskets at Hornings would be very poorly received simply because they are different (however, getting 18 or 36 other borrowed baskets in there for two weeks would be easy).

We need to ask ourselves if we want to run a so-so worlds or the best worlds ever. Courses like Hornings (haven't seen the gold yet), Pier, Dabney, etc. may be OK but do not have the difficulty level (skill, not luck) that make a premiere worlds course. Milo E/W @ BSF preparation levels are the only premiere pro-worlds caliber courses that I've seen so far in Oregon (whistler's bend in the longs may be the other). It is important to have good scoring separation on every hole and a wide mix of shot variety (short, long, left, right, straight, etc.). In order to ensure a good scoring separation you need to run multiple tournaments with a large group of pro players and make adjustments to holes that are too easy, too consistent (everyone hit pars) or too hard / luck prone. It takes multiple tournaments to dial a course in. You also need space for spectators to park and watch the players.

Also keep in mind that the courses need to be fairly close to each other and that a large, centrally located host hotel / venue is needed. Hornings certainly has the space but what about the hotel facilities (not everyone will want to camp)?

[larsonjeff]

I've played in 2 Am Worlds:
1. Flagstaff, AZ. The courses were decent but not outstanding. One of the courses was up on the Mtn and required about a 40min drive, so a bit of a drive might be OK.

2. Milwaukee, WI. The courses here were not great, and many were pretty disappointed with them because they could be played with a mid-range disc on most holes. I know our courses here (Milo, Pier and even perhaps Dabney/Timber) would hold up compared to them.

Just some comments...

[smobro]

Baskets used in any sactioned tournament above C has to be certified by the PDGA. When I comes tikme to make bakets for the new course they will have the same design as the Highland, short throw course, with the extra chains (better catching). I will be making an extra basket and sending it to PDGA to be certified (they keep it), since they are built to PDGA specs. Which brings up another subject, we need to call them something. INNOVA has such names as Mach 1, etc... What's some ideas out there for names? (be nice:nono:)

The chains are not really the issue. the wheel is likely the sticky wicket. The inside of the wheel is so slick that a well delivered nose down putt can very easily scoop out. I don't notice chain outs as much on the Highland course due to the multiple chains. but scoop outs do happen with seemingly more regularity than the popular basket brands on some of our other great courses. However, if the PDGA will give approval, then I am looking forward to putting the baskets at HH in Worlds!

[Matt B.]

The chains are not really the issue. the wheel is likely the sticky wicket. The inside of the wheel is so slick that a well delivered nose down putt can very easily scoop out. I don't notice chain outs as much on the Highland course due to the multiple chains. but scoop outs do happen with seemingly more regularity than the popular basket brands on some of our other great courses. However, if the PDGA will give approval, then I am looking forward to putting the baskets at HH in Worlds!

Respectfully, I'd like to encourage Bob to use standard baskets for the "gold" course. Especially if Worlds is a consideration. I totally understand budgetary restrictions, but if you're using all that land and trying to create a "Worlds" class course that will be there for years getting thousands of rounds of play, that people will love, and that could become the focus for big, awesome tournaments with camping, fishing, (music?:biggrin2:) and potentially a Worlds bid, do you really want homemade baskets, even if they get PDGA approval?

Fundraiser, anyone?

[Bob Horning]

For now, I have budgeted for the home made baskets and I have looked at the new certification requirements, and they are not that hard to meet. I will have to go to a smaller top ring (I can get those), but that is basically it. With the smaller ring I can also hang the chains even lower in the basket, thus keeping the discs from spitting out at all (smobro's comment). After I make the baskets for the new course I will go back and re-do the canyon course (the short course will remain as is, no changes) In the future when more funds are coming in we will look at different baskets for the new course, but for right now we're going with the modified home made that will be certified.

[JMan]

I love them Bob, and when the pdga cert. comes in it will be a mute point.
J

[Adam Schneider]

I think "normal" baskets at HH would be a shame. It'd be like replacing the peacocks with chickens.

[Greg_R]

I love them Bob, and when the pdga cert. comes in it will be a mute point.I wish that you'll be correct but I've seen too many pros at tournaments and know exactly what their response will be. The Oregon Series event down in Grants Pass a few years ago featured very similar baskets and there were a LOT of complaints (not necessarily justified). For B tiers and below the current baskets are perfectly fine. If you want to run A tier events and above then you'll need to install recognized equipment (that everyone across the U.S. has played on before), not because of PDGA legality issues, but because of player's expectations.

[Bullseye]

I wish that you'll be correct but I've seen too many pros at tournaments and know exactly what their response will be. The Oregon Series event down in Grants Pass a few years ago featured very similar baskets and there were a LOT of complaints (not necessarily justified). For B tiers and below the current baskets are perfectly fine. If you want to run A tier events and above then you'll need to install recognized equipment (that everyone across the U.S. has played on before), not because of PDGA legality issues, but because of player's expectations.

Agreed. One potential solution might just be to ensure the anchors are compatible with standard basket collars. That way we could drop in baskets if we need to.

[Vector_2008]

I wish that you'll be correct but I've seen too many pros at tournaments and know exactly what their response will be. The Oregon Series event down in Grants Pass a few years ago featured very similar baskets and there were a LOT of complaints (not necessarily justified). For B tiers and below the current baskets are perfectly fine. If you want to run A tier events and above then you'll need to install recognized equipment (that everyone across the U.S. has played on before), not because of PDGA legality issues, but because of player's expectations.

After the Gold course is put and the baskets are certified, Bob could start selling baskets for other courses. That way more people would have more experience with them. Park Officials in Oregon would like the made in Oregon idea.

I kinda like the name "Oregon Gold" Disc Golf Basket.

[jevon]

If you want to run A tier events and above then you'll need to install recognized equipment (that everyone across the U.S. has played on before), not because of PDGA legality issues, but because of player's expectations.

All equipment is new at some point. For all we know these could turn out to be the next standard that everything else is compared to. I don't think anyone should pass judgment until the new baskets are complete and have been experienced first hand. If they are built to PDGA specs then the anchors will be compatible with everything else anyway so they could be switched out if needed.

[Sean Phillips]

Agreed. One potential solution might just be to ensure the anchors are compatible with standard basket collars. That way we could drop in baskets if we need to.

good idea. :rockon:

[Greg_R]

All equipment is new at some point. For all we know these could turn out to be the next standard that everything else is compared to. I don't think anyone should pass judgment until the new baskets are complete and have been experienced first hand. If they are built to PDGA specs then the anchors will be compatible with everything else anyway so they could be switched out if needed.This is a well thought out and reasoned opinion. Unfortunately, logic does not always have a place when it comes to DGers expectations at large tournaments. The new baskets could even be BETTER than every other basket design and there would still be complaints!

By the way, I am not trying to bash anyone's efforts or course (my last few posts may have seemed negative in tone). However, I am very concerned that Oregon put on the best Worlds possible. The primary volunteers (I may be one of them) will be giving up 2 years of their spare time to organize and run the tournament. I would not want to have people come back and complain about the courses like Minnesota Worlds.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I would not want to have people come back and complain about the courses like Minnesota Worlds.
Must have meant maybe Michigan (either one)?

[Bullseye]

Must have meant maybe Michigan (either one)?

I think he was talking about Wisconsin where they made all of the AMs play stupid little pitch and putt courses when there were pro pads available and going unused. Everyone I know who went that year was very pissed about the short courses.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I was involved from the PDGA in evaluating and suggesting appropriate pin placements for that Worlds and was shocked when I heard what layouts were actually used. There's no question they got decent scoring spreads for most divisions. However, I think the experience was "cheapened" for the Advanced men which is the largest pool. I think the relentless demand to host more players at Am Worlds is going to prevent longer courses being used just due to scheduling issues.

[Greg_R]

Yes, sorry, I meant Wisconsin. From what I heard, the scoring spreads were due to dumb luck rather than skill (i.e. hitting a 1" small stump when the disc is skidding on a perfect line and then kicking 50ft off into the briars).

The top 1/2 of the advanced field at Worlds might as well be playing pro (and many do w/o taking cash). The difficulty of the courses need to reflect that.

[bvdisc]

To give one an idea of what the courses were like in Milwaukee, I threw my gator off the t-pad more then any other disc. And it's an old school super stable gator... So the holes weren't exactly long...

Yes, sorry, I meant Wisconsin. From what I heard, the scoring spreads were due to dumb luck rather than skill (i.e. hitting a 1" small stump when the disc is skidding on a perfect line and then kicking 50ft off into the briars).

The top 1/2 of the advanced field at Worlds might as well be playing pro (and many do w/o taking cash). The difficulty of the courses need to reflect that.

[larsonjeff]

To give one an idea of what the courses were like in Milwaukee, I threw my gator off the t-pad more then any other disc. And it's an old school super stable gator... So the holes weren't exactly long...

One day I drove almost every hole with by Breeze, it was awesome ;)