Greenway REMOVED?

[Brody Cannon]

Email I received! PLEASE HELP! It's supposed to be for surrounding neighborhoods but we need some disc golfers there!

NOTICE OF NEIGHBORHOOD FORUM

GREENWAY PARK DISC GOLF COURSE

WEDNESDAY, MAY 27, 2009 (7 P.M. - 9 P.M.)
Conestoga Recreation and Aquatic Center, Room 203 (9985 SW 125th Ave.)

The Tualatin Hills Park & Recreation District has received feedback from
neighbors and residents using Greenway Park, regarding disc golf and how it
fits in with other park activities.

Since it’s opening in spring 2007, the disc golf course has generated many
positive comments from local residents. But we've also heard from park
users who are concerned about safety. They've pointed out conflicts between
the disc golf course and the natural areas and walking paths. In addition,
we have received a petition asking that the course be removed – an action
that was opposed by other local residents and park users.

Whatever your ideas or opinions may be, please join the staff of the
Tualatin Hills Park & Recreation District for a neighborhood forum on this
topic. It will be held Wednesday, May 27, from 7 to 9 p.m. at the Conestoga
Recreation and Aquatic Center, Room 203.

The purpose of the forum is to bring the wide variety of Greenway Park users
together to discuss these differences of opinion. Through an open exchange
of ideas, we hope to find a solution that is agreeable to everyone. In the
end, our primary goal is to maintain Greenway Park as an open, inviting,
multipurpose community park that everyone can enjoy.

THPRD staff from a variety of departments will be in attendance to provide
information, answer questions, and facilitate the forum.

Questions?
Scott Brucker
Superintendent of Sports – THPRD
503/629-6300
sbrucker@thprd.org.
www.thprd.org

[Sausage Fingers]

Saw THAT coming from a mile away!:pirate:

[Adam Schneider]

The question is, will people from outside the "neighborhood" be welcome at this forum? Has anyone ever had any dealings with this Scott Brucker?

Official THPRD page: http://www.thprd.org/events/event.cfm?id=282

[dan]

The good news here is the reference to the positive feedback for DG. Hopefully, the parks department felt they needed to do something to address the petition, and their only response will be this meeting.

[Brody Cannon]

The question is, will people from outside the "neighborhood" be welcome at this forum?

All park users should be able to come. If you consider the disc golf course as your home course or you even play it every once in a while, then you should definitely be able to voice your opinion.

[Scott]

I'll do my best to attend.

I'll also call and/or e-mail Mr. Brucker and voice my concerns.

Brody (and anyone else who regularly plays Greenway): I suggest printing many copies of that e-mail, keep them in your bag, and hand them out to every golfer you meet on the course.

A petition might work as well. Show the park management that there is just as much support, if not more, for keeping the course.

[Adam Schneider]

I e-mailed Brucker last night to find out more about the forum. If it's truly okay for anyone to show up, I'll be there. (It'd be hypocritical of me to get annoyed when no one shows up to the Clackamas County meetings, if I didn't show up in Washington County.)


Brody (and anyone else who regularly plays Greenway): I suggest printing many copies of that e-mail, keep them in your bag, and hand them out to every golfer you meet on the course.
There's an offical flyer that can be printed and handed out: http://www.thprd.org/pdfs/events/event282.pdf

[Pizzel]

How about starting an online petition? Or setting-up an email account where DGers could send comments?

[Adam Schneider]

How about starting an online petition? Or setting-up an email account where DGers could send comments?
Unfortunately, on-line petitions aren't worth the electrons used to display them. I guess it can't HURT, but direct e-mails would be better.

[Brody Cannon]

Brody (and anyone else who regularly plays Greenway): I suggest printing many copies of that e-mail, keep them in your bag, and hand them out to every golfer you meet on the course.



I was planning on it but won't be able to start until I get back from Arizona (Monday)

[Brody Cannon]

Another email I just received from Kyle Kotchik. Kyle is in charge of the free tournament every year and I've been working side-by-side with him for a long time. He's on our side. The email also includes some other stuff not directly related to the public forum.

We will be holding a Public Forum on the Greenway Disc Golf Course Wednesday May 27th. The purpose of the forum is to receive feedback from the community related to the disc golf course and how it is integrating into existing uses at Greenway. The ultimate outcome would be a plan to have all uses co-exist in the Park.

Can you help get the word out? I want the forum to have fair representation. I know you love the course and it is a big part of your life. It would be a shame if the voice of the disc golfers was not heard and the a vocal minority gets there way and moves the course.

I did receive your message a couple weeks back about the hole 9 basket missing. Sounds like some vandals got a hold of it and tossed it in the creek. Before I could do anything about it our park maintenance re-installed the basket. Kind of waiting on the concrete pad tee box.

I play on getting the word out on the June 27 tournament soon. This year I'd like to have youth start around 10am followed by adults.

Please respond or call to let me know you received this email.

Thanks Brody,

Kyle Kotchik
THPRD Athletic Center
Ph. 503.629.6330
Fax 503.629.6335
kkotchik@thprd.com

[stevem]

Thanks for this heads up.

I work in the business park on the east side of Greenway and have played the course a couple times a week since they put it in. Since then I've introduced a bunch of other people who work in the area to the course and sport. Just last week a guy driving on Nimbus saw me jogging with discs and stopped to ask me where a course was - as he plays but was new to the area. I'll see if I can get some letters from people emailed if they can't attend the meeting.

[Brody Cannon]

Thanks for this heads up.

I work in the business park on the east side of Greenway and have played the course a couple times a week since they put it in. Since then I've introduced a bunch of other people who work in the area to the course and sport. Just last week a guy driving on Nimbus saw me jogging with discs and stopped to ask me where a course was - as he plays but was new to the area. I'll see if I can get some letters from people emailed if they can't attend the meeting.

Anything would help. I appreciate it.

[Flash]

Anything would help. I appreciate it.

Brody, this is a meeting you should make sure your parents go to as well as all of your friends who play in the park. There is nothing more powerful then a group of parents whose youth uses a park for recreation instead of for mischief telling the local community to leave it alone.

[Brody Cannon]

Brody, this is a meeting you should make sure your parents go to as well as all of your friends who play in the park. There is nothing more powerful then a group of parents whose youth uses a park for recreation instead of for mischief telling the local community to leave it alone.

Yes of course. We are all planning on it.

Also, I found out that there are 9 households and 18 signatures on the petetion to get the course removed. I think it would be great if we had 18 disc golfers there just to show how much we want the course! And as Mike said, bring the whole family!

[dan]

Also, I found out that there are 9 households and 18 signatures on the petetion to get the course removed.

Hah! Some petition. I'm surprised they are even bothering to address it.

[Scott]

I'm actually most interested in hearing what the specific complaints are.

[Adam Schneider]

I got this e-mail yesterday (boldface emphasis mine):

If you have received this e-mail THPRD is in receipt of a communication from you regarding the Disc Golf Course in Greenway Park.

To assure that your input is heard the body of your e-mail will be included in a packet of communications. The packet will be handed out at forum although your e-mail, name and address will not be included.

THPRD has received a great deal of interest in the upcoming forum, many excellent suggestions and many opinions. Thank You for taking the time to write and take interest in our Parks and their activities.

Hoping all can attend and be heard,


Scott Brucker
Superintendent of Sports
(503) 645-6433
(503) 629-6301 Fax
sbrucker@thprd.com


So, E-MAILS COUNT. If you can't make the meeting on Wednesday but want to make your voice heard, send Scott Brucker a message.

[Scott]

bump - meeting tonight.

[Brody Cannon]

The meeting went better than expected. There was a large turn-out of disc golfers! Looks like there will definitely be some changes to the course and hopefully improvements. I'll go into further detail later when my mouth isn't stuffed with an ice cream sandwich...

[Adam Schneider]

I had to leave at about 8:15, right after the Park Patrol supervisor gave his little spiel. Did anything exciting happen after that?

[Scott]

I had to leave at about 8:15, right after the Park Patrol supervisor gave his little spiel. Did anything exciting happen after that?

We ended up leaving at around 8:30. At that point, they were attempting to take only solutions to the earlier defined problems and most of the solutions had already been turned in earlier in the evening.

I was happy to see the large number of disc golfers that showed up - by my estimation about half the crowd of ~70 people but I was totally blown away by the number of non-golfers who spoke up saying they've never had any problems with golfers and think the course should stay. These were both homeowners and frequent walkers who said they found golfers to be among the most polite and respectful users of the park. :shocked: One man said that, knowing he would be attending a meeting about saftey issues, went to the park last week and spent the evening deliberately walking in front of teepads and fairways. Want to guess what happened? Every single golfer politely waited for the couple to pass. :yay:

I don't think the course will go away, although it is clear that changes will be made. Hole 9 will be taken out for sure.

It seems that the best solution for us is education. The problem isn't the experienced golfers, it's the newer players. The responisbility falls on all of us to be stewards of the course; pay attenention to what we see out there and educate all players as to proper saftey and ettiquite.

And don't forget to be on your best behavior when on the course - we're being watched!

[Vector_2008]

I don't think the course will go away, although it is clear that changes will be made. Hole 9 will be taken out for sure.

For those of us who haven't played there; can you clue us in on what is wrong with hole 9?

Now I want to go play there before changes are made.:biggrin2:

[Scott]

For those of us who haven't played there; can you clue us in on what is wrong with hole 9?

Now I want to go play there before changes are made.:biggrin2:

There are three main issues:

1) There is a basketball court to the left of the hole that can come into play.
2) There is a recently replanted natural area to the right of the hole that can come into play.
3) There are very long walkouts from hole 8 to 9 and from 9 back to 1.

[Adam Schneider]

For those of us who haven't played there; can you clue us in on what is wrong with hole 9?
Look at the map: http://www.oregondiscgolf.com/course_maps/Greenway.jpg

Not only is Hole #9 way outside the normal flow of the course, but there's a basketball court 50' to the left of the flight path -- and a newly-replanted stream restoration area 20' to the right!

Last night after the meeting, I realized another reason that #9's placement is a bad idea: with the exception of the bottleneck near #6, there are two major north-south walking routes through the park. The western path almost completely avoids the disc golf course. If #9 were relocated to the east side of the park, that would preserve a mostly disc-golf-free zone along the western edge, for people who are afraid of those "lethal discs."



By the way, for those who weren't there: they handed out a packet with printouts of every e-mail they received. Only one of those e-mails was solidly against disc golf (that's where "lethal discs" came from); the rest were either from disc golfers or from neighbors who had little or no problem with the course.

[Adam Schneider]

The responsibility falls on all of us to be stewards of the course; pay attention to what we see out there and educate all players as to proper safety and etiquette.
...and alcohol regulations.

[Sam]

Who decided that that is where 9 should be?! Why aren't the areas where old 8 and old 9 being used? I know that they moved the stream but this solution seems like a really dumb one as far as flow goes.

[Adam Schneider]

Why aren't the areas where old 8 and old 9 being used? I know that they moved the stream...
You answered your own question. The stream and its associated natural area fill up that entire space.

[Scott]

...and alcohol regulations.

Yes, but based on the Park Patrol Supervisor's report alcohol hasn't been as much of a concern as I had feared.

However, everyone should definately not drink at this park as the park patrol and frequent users are on the lookout for violations.

[Sam]

You answered your own question. The stream and its associated natural area fill up that entire space.

No it doesn't. Normal hole 8 was there for a long time after the stream had been re-routed. There was a ribbon on the left denoting a type of OB. Why was this moved? That was a very fun hole.

[Adam Schneider]

No it doesn't. Normal hole 8 was there for a long time after the stream had been re-routed. There was a ribbon on the left denoting a type of OB. Why was this moved? That was a very fun hole.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that area is full of tree plantings now.

[Sam]

Trees? On a golf course? Crazy...

[Scott]

Trees? On a golf course? Crazy...

I think you know what he means. The plantings were new and not likely to survive high traffic.

There were also many instances of golfers going through and across the stream looking for discs.

[George A.]

don"t forget about the path issues and the flying missals :shooting:

[Sam]

Yeah... hate those courses with trees and water hazards. Nice to hear that this course is being turned into Orchard South. :rolleyes2:

[Joshua Olmsted]

I was totally blown away by the meeting in numerous ways, the golfer turn out was amazing, it was made completely clear that only about 3 angry disgruntled, frankly bitter neighbors, want the course gone. The parks people clearly care a lot about that park and were very responsive of all comments. Towards the end they gave some of the explanations as to why hole 9 was created where it is, pretty much every other logical spot for it was ruled out for some reason, frankly, I think it's most likely that the 405' hole 4 will be split to make a couple of 250' holes. I hope all disc golf meetings can be as positive and relatively civil as this one was.:yay::rockon:

[Adam Schneider]

frankly, I think it's most likely that the 405' hole 4 will be split to make a couple of 250' holes.
That'd be a shame. I think there's room for one more up by Albertson's.

[Scott]

don"t forget about the path issues and the flying missals :shooting:

And the launch pads. :laughing:

[Scott]

That'd be a shame. I think there's room for one more up by Albertson's.

Really? I thought it was pretty narrow there.

[Scott]

Yeah... hate those courses with trees and water hazards. Nice to hear that this course is being turned into Orchard South. :rolleyes2:

The whole point is to recognize that there are things to consider other than disc golf (gasp!).

The park staff needs to find a balance that will allow dg, natural areas, walkers, and other park users to live in harmony.

I think, based on the space available, Greenway has the potential to be an excellent course for beginning to intermediate players. A place to introduce new people to the sport. Trying to make the course more than it is capable of may just be asking for trouble.

One park user last night (non-golfer) thinks that golf is a great idea, but that the park is trying to "cram ten pounds of activity into a five pound space". I agree. The question is, how can we make it fit that makes everyone happy. If it's determined that not everything can fit, what do you think will be the first to go? The natural areas? Probably not.

[Sam]

When the course was installed, it was pretty clear that there would be growth issues and issues with non-DGers. I think that it is great that they are doing what they can to accommodate everyone but I agree that they are trying to make everyone happy and I do not think that that is possible in most situations. The course has been in what... 2 years? And there have been more layout changes at this course than any other in the area over that time - by double, at least. I really think that they need to pick out area that they are giving over to the disc golf course and stick with it.

I think splitting 4 into two shorter holes would further Orchard-ify this course.

[Adam Schneider]

I think splitting 4 into two shorter holes would further Orchard-ify this course.
Yes, it would. But I have a feeling that THPRD has no problem with Orchardification.

[Sam]

Of course not. They are not approaching it from a golfer's perspective and probably rightly so. Just sorry to see some of the longer holes at Greenway removed or altered.

[Scott]

I think splitting 4 into two shorter holes would further Orchard-ify this course.

Which would not necesarily be a bad thing (assuming you are talking about the 400' hole 5 and not the 200' hole 4).

Please don't use Orchard as a synonym for "bad course". It is not. It is what it is - a great use of a small space and a great place for beginning and intermediate players to learn the game. It's also a place for experienced players to work on putting and approach games as well as an excellent venue for league play (doubles).

Greenway can be all that and more. I just don't see how you can expect much more and keep everyone happy at the same time. Yeah, I know it's impossible to make everyone happy. But that doesn't mean we have to go about actively pissing them off.

[Sam]

In my opinion, it would be a bad thing. We already have a short course on the west side and are seriously lacking anything with any distance at all.

Um... and you do know that I helped build the baskets at Orchard and started the doubles there, right? I am not using Orchard as a synonym for bad course. I am using it as a synonym for short, easy course - something we don't need more of on the west side.

[Adam Schneider]

We need more disc golf on the west side, period -- long or short. We need it even more desperately on the near east side. But can you find any parcels of land that could be used?

[Sam]

Sure... if this is the direction we want to take, I am sure we could find an acre here and an acre there and install more Rockwoods and Orchards.

[johnny lamotte]

well if they do make hole 5 into 2 smaller holes i hope we could make a doubles tourny there every week too!

[Adam Schneider]

Sure... if this is the direction we want to take, I am sure we could find an acre here and an acre there and install more Rockwoods and Orchards.
Not what I meant. You feel a strong need for a long course on the west side... so I'm saying, go find the land.

[JMan]

What about Horning's? Hagg? The coming Stubb Stewart? Westside has long. I think another Orchard stlye would be great. Not that I would play it, but it does promote the game and in Orchard's case the course is set up for quick play. I liked some of the Greenway holes, but felt it played longer than it really was due to a few long walk outs for short holes. Oh well, the important thing is having a course in, right?

[Adam Schneider]

What about Horning's? Hagg? The coming Stubb Stewart? Westside has long.
The FAR west side. It'd sure be nice to have something that's closer than North Plains or Forest Grove!

[Scott]

The FAR west side. It'd sure be nice to have something that's closer than North Plains or Forest Grove!

Depends on where you are. I live near 170th and Baseline and can get to HH quicker than Greenway (in traffic).

[JMan]

Depends on where you are. I live near 170th and Baseline and can get to HH quicker than Greenway (in traffic).
I'm with ya Scott, 12 miles to Horning's, 15 to Pier. Far west side? that's McMinnville baby.

[Adam Schneider]

That'd be all well and good if the population center of the metro area were in Beaverton... which it's not!

[JMan]

What about some of the power-line parks? Huge stretches of property, virtually unused, and long.

[Scott]

What about some of the power-line parks? Huge stretches of property, virtually unused, and long.

I've looked at a few, particularly one stretch by my house. To make it work, you'd have to have a few holes going in one direction and a few holes going back. Otherwise, you would end up a couple of miles from where you started and would have a huge hike back.

The problem is, most powerline parks are a tad too narrow. You'd have to squeeze the holes in along the sides and potentially run into trouble with the houses that line the park.

[Scott]

That'd be all well and good if the population center of the metro area were in Beaverton... which it's not!

It's all about Jman and me.

[KenGilmore]

I've practiced in a couple of powerline parks, and I can safely say that they are too narrow! :whistler:

[Scott]

I've practiced in a couple of powerline parks, and I can safely say that they are too narrow! :whistler:

Yeah, I've really thought about the one by my house. The only way it would work would be to fill it with 200' holes and that kind of defeats the purpose of having all that land.

[jlyons]

I've practiced in a couple of powerline parks, and I can safely say that they are too narrow! :whistler:

Yep...Ken...I too know some of the powerlines areas are a bit narrow :biggrin2:

Paula Jean Park off Rock Road could house a course and support a couple of longer holes. The property is owned by Hillsboro Parks and Rec. Also, the old Orenco Golf Course has been removed...Hillsboro Parks and Rec has some consideration for recreation on that property, but so does home developers I believe...its been too long since I was directly communicating with HPD on the subject.

THPRD or HPD own almost all the park land/greenspaces on the westside.
The way to start getting a course installed is to go to the planning meetings and pleed your case...I know first hand. One issue is, while there are many who want a course, too few are willing to attend these meetings and put in the commitment to getting it done. Unfortunately, it tends to be the same people who are always the ones taking up the cause promoting the sport, Running events, Websites, maintenance, teaching classes etc.

THPRD also has a ton of land at PCC Rock Creek Campus...many baseball fields, soccer fields, tennis courts...why not disc golf?

[Scott]

I've practiced in a couple of powerline parks, and I can safely say that they are too narrow! :whistler:

Yeah, I've really thought about the one by my house. The only way it would work would be to fill it with 200' holes and that kind of defeats the purpose of having all that land.

[KenGilmore]

Yeah, I've really thought about the one by my house. The only way it would work would be to fill it with 200' holes and that kind of defeats the purpose of having all that land.
You can say that again!