Harmony (Milwaukie/Clackamas): YOUR input needed, again

[Adam Schneider]

So it seems that the "public meetings" phase of the planning for the Harmony Community Campus is over. They've drafted a conceptual master plan for both the "near term" and "far term" (although they admit they don't know how long either of those terms are). Now, keep in mind, these are "conceptual" plans; they are not blueprints, and NOTHING about them is set in stone. They can and will change.

The near-term plan includes 7-8 acres set aside for disc golf in the northwest end of the park. They have NOT included some areas that I thought would have made prime disc golf territory, apparently because they are "delineated wetland." (I have a feeling that's going to be non-negotiable, which leaves very little "dry" acreage to work with.) The far-term plan adds another 3-4 acres of disc golf in the far southeastern corner, 2000 feet away from the other parcel. I'm not sure what they're thinking there.

Click here to see the original "Conceptual Master Plan - Far Term" (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=71&stc=1&d=1240966673) -- the only edit I made was adding a little extra yellow color to the disc golf areas.

At the meetings, the planner and landscape architect said there may be some room for negotiation. I've created an annotated version of the map that shows a few areas I think we should concentrate on (click (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72&stc=1&d=1240966673) on the graphic for a larger version):

http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=73&stc=1&d=1240967401 (http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72&stc=1&d=1240966673)


Here's what my annotations mean:

A = A raised service road that traverses the southern border of the park, next to some railroad tracks. The tracks are absolutely off-limits, but I can envision anywhere from 2 to 4 disc golf holes that start on or next to the berm and play into the edge of the woods, parallel to or away from the tracks. We can't go too far into the woods because the creek is in there; but in some spots it's pretty far back.

B = Fir-covered hillside next to Harmony Road that has been, until recently, completely covered by blackberries and ivy. Erosion might be an issue here, but it'd sure be nice to get those big conifers into play.

C = A few narrow open areas along SE 82nd (near the "far term" expansion).

D = Experimental poplar grove that has been planted to clean up toxic groundwater. The grove was not intended to be there forever; eventually it will have served its purpose, and the trees will be removed. But what if some of them remained to create the ultimate tree-tunnel fairways? This is complete and total speculation, as even the planners at the meetings didn't know of a possible timeline.

I think area "A" is our best bet, because (1) that swath of land isn't good for much else, and (2) it would connect the near-term (west) area to the far-term (east) area.

But please remember that THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT ANY DISC GOLF COURSE WILL BE INSTALLED! There are still many people who don't want to see any recreational development besides walking trails and bird blinds. This is where YOU come in. We need every disc golfer in the Portland metro area to contact Michelle Healy, Senior Planner with Clackamas County Parks, and tell her why you think there should be a disc golf course -- a big one! -- in Northern Clackamas County. Michelle's e-mail address is in the lower-right corner of http://www.harmonyvision.org/. You can also use the comment form on that page.


What else can you do? If possible, visit the site; for most of us, it's right on the way to Estacada. Walk around the areas shown on the map and think about where teepads and baskets might go. Maybe we should organize an on-site tour for disc golfers; if we draw a map and SHOW the Parks people that there's room for more holes in areas they haven't considered, that might help a lot.

And tell your friends and family to submit comments as well!


:cheerleader:

[Adam Schneider]

*bump*

Really? No one else has any comments about this??

[motherhucker]

I went to the meeting too. I would say the big concern is the money for the project. It's not a done deal that they'll have the money. It might be a nice gesture if the local clubs offer to help with putting in the baskets and tee pads. (I seem to recall they don't want concrete ones)

[Adam Schneider]

Did you hear anything specific about money from the officials there? I've never been under the impression that it was a big concern, as disc golf is far cheaper than most other recreational amenities. (They're planning to put in boardwalks, for example, and those will dwarf the cost of a dozen disc golf baskets.)

[HawkMan]

Got this in my inbox. WEAK!!!!! Finally a course in town (maybe, I was under the impression it was approved) and they are not going to do it right! Frankly a sawdust tee to target course just doesn't compete with other courses. If there are baskets it might be worth a weekday round before the sun goes down, but that's about it.


"Hi Robert - Thanks very much for your comments. It is not approved yet, but is included in the conceptual plans for further consideration. This is a tough site due to the natural resources (wetlands, streams, etc). Therefore, we will not install concrete driving pads or other improvements that result in "intense" development. I'm doubtful it would stay in the plans, if we included intense development. As it is now, there is a contingent of folks who don't want it at all. So, generally, the way we've been describing it is rustic and fitting with the natural environment. I understand this may not be the ultimate experience for some disc golfers, but hopefully it is an opportunity for people to get out.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Thanks,
Michelle"

[Adam Schneider]

Got this in my inbox. WEAK!!!!! Finally a course in town (maybe, I was under the impression it was approved) and they are not going to do it right! Frankly a sawdust tee to target course just doesn't compete with other courses.
I do think that they're planning on baskets, just not hard-surface tee pads.

And no one said it was going to compete with Pier and McIver. Any course in northern Clackamas County is better than nothing, don't you think?

[HawkMan]

I do think that they're planning on baskets, just not hard-surface tee pads.

And no one said it was going to compete with Pier and McIver. Any course in northern Clackamas County is better than nothing, don't you think?

Nope. If your gonna do it, do it right, or not at all. You wouldn't build a playground with half a seesaw. Or a basketball court with no hoops. It just seems that this course will not be very popular and the city will look at it as a model for future courses. If this one fails it could screw us out of future developments.

[Scott]

Nope. If your gonna do it, do it right, or not at all. You wouldn't build a playground with half a seesaw. Or a basketball court with no hoops. It just seems that this course will not be very popular and the city will look at it as a model for future courses. If this one fails it could screw us out of future developments.

Many courses choose to install a course with minimal ammenities and decide to add them later. Cascades Gateway started with natural tees. So did Horning's Hideout (Bob just announced that concrete teepads and new signs will be added to two of the three courses). Greenway started with teepads only and added signs later (a kiosk is on the way).

[PDXDuck]

The well used phrase "getting your foot in the door" couldn't be more accurate for this proposed course.

Better to have a starting point than nothing at all.

[jevon]

The well used phrase "getting your foot in the door" couldn't be more accurate for this proposed course.

Better to have a starting point than nothing at all.

I agree. The way I see it, the best way to "grow the sport" would be to take every small park that doesn't get much use and put in a couple baskets and tee pads. Maybe its just two holes, maybe its three, and a sign explaining the rules. You would get more families out learning and playing the game. If the only thing you are installing is 18 hole "gold" courses you aren't going to reach as many people. Sure, I would love to have more courses to alleviate the crowds, but how do you do that without more people wanting to play and more people being vocal about it? The Parks department wants to please the majority of people. Build more small courses, get more people into the game, then you will get more large courses.

[evanders]

Hey Adam and all,
Thanks for putting the effort in to keep this in the minds of the planners. If we can get them to put in a basic course and then show them we don't toss butts everywhere we're in a much stronger position. If we can organize liter clean ups and invasive species removal we can co-opt the entire environmental message. Can we get any time frame for that kind of work? If those black berries under the evergreens are Himalayan then they will be easy to get clearance to rip out.
Evan

[Adam Schneider]

Thanks for putting the effort in to keep this in the minds of the planners. If we can get them to put in a basic course and then show them we don't toss butts everywhere we're in a much stronger position. If we can organize liter clean ups and invasive species removal we can co-opt the entire environmental message. Can we get any time frame for that kind of work? If those black berries under the evergreens are Himalayan then they will be easy to get clearance to rip out.
The blackberries and such are already being ripped out (and countless new plants have been put in), by a group of volunteers calling themselves the "Tsunami Crew" and headed by one Chris Runyard. They've put thousands of hours of work into cleaning up the Harmony/Three Creeks area -- not all of it sanctioned by Clackamas Parks -- and as such have a strong sense of ownership about the place. While overall I applaud their efforts, they are NOT in favor of disc golf, or any other recreational development in the park. From the limited interactions I've had with the Tsunami folks, it's their way or the highway.

All that said, Runyard & Co. are not the ones who'll be making the final decisions. BUT, like lobbyists who contribute to a political campaign, they're going to expect their agenda to count for more when all is said and done.

[evanders]

I got an email back from Ms. Healy...same old. She sounds pretty non-committal but not overtly hostile.

"Hi Evan, Thanks very much for your comments. Will make sure that they
are shared in the process. Currently, the plans do propose some disc
golf on site. Nothing is set in stone yet, but the fact it is included
now is a good thing." Thanks again, Michelle

As far as the Tsunami crew is concerned I can mobilize hundreds through REI if we can get the permits. Our biggest outreach event last year was 400+ people and with a new store local to the park in SE we might be able to leverage more. As you said we'd have to have some very good looking maps and plans on what's to be removed, planted, etc (Adam ;) ;) nudge nudge say no more...

Evan

[Adam Schneider]

I got an email back from Ms. Healy...same old. She sounds pretty non-committal but not overtly hostile.
Her response may sound like the same ol' same ol', but every comment she receives from disc golfers does count for something in the end. She has to be non-committal because nothing's been decided for sure. Michelle's definitely not hostile to our cause, overtly or otherwise; she understands that having people use the land year-round would help keep the riff-raff out, and the current conceptual plan was created under her guidance.

[evanders]

Who told you my college nick name? Adam have you been stalking me again? I told you last time 100 feet means you can hit me with a putter.

Ok seriously let us know the next meeting and you can email me direct if need be.

Evan

[Adam Schneider]

Ok seriously let us know the next meeting and you can email me direct if need be.
As far as I know, no more public meetings have been announced. The best thing we can do right now is drum up support. Get all of your disc-golfing friends and family to submit their comments.

[Adam Schneider]

E-mail today from Michelle Healy (boldface emphasis mine):

Hi Adam, Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. We are working on
determining the next steps. However, I can tell you that I'm getting
some push back from our advisory board about disc golf in this location
because of the concerns for the natural resources. I guess some of the
advocates against it have been contacting a few of the members directly.
As a result, I would encourage you (and any anyone else) to attend our
next advisory board meeting to share with them your thoughts about how
disc golf can work on this site. Also, to explain how it works in other
areas, etc. They still might recommend against it, however, I think it
is only fair that you have a chance to share your thoughts too.

I believe the meeting is July 9 (Thursday) at 5:30 pm. I will need to
confirm the location. Also, I unfortunately will not be at the meeting.
However, I will put together a packet of all the public input to date
for the board, which includes comments from disc golfers.


Will this July 9 meeting finally be the one where disc golfers ACTUALLY SHOW UP? This may be the last chance.

[PDXDuck]

Will this July 9 meeting finally be the one where disc golfers ACTUALLY SHOW UP? This may be the last chance.

Let's hope so, our presence at this meeting might be the most important one to date. The conservationists know how to promote their interests...can we effectively coordinate and represent ours?

There certainly is no reason the two groups can't coexist in this 100 acre piece of land.

I won't be able to make the next Stumptown meeting. Will you bring this up if no one else does Bob?

[Bullseye]

Let's hope so, our presence at this meeting might be the most important one to date. The conservationists know how to promote their interests...can we effectively coordinate and represent ours?

There certainly is no reason the two groups can't coexist in this 100 acre piece of land.

I won't be able to make the next Stumptown meeting. Will you bring this up if no one else does Bob?

I'll be at the meeting. I'll bring it up.

[evanders]

I think we have a real advantage here if we can leverage the results at Pier and other Disc Golf parks against the alternatives. What are the environmental groups proposing? If we can find out what they want we can show how disc golf is a better use for the site and a better fit for the environment. From reading the articles about Mr. Runyard and their overall position on any development I think we have a real opportunity to be a reasonable alternative middle ground for the city. Hope I can make the next meeting.
Evan

[Adam Schneider]

The July 9 meeting has been postponed.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

The July 9 meeting has been postponed.

Whew! I really wanted to go but had a conflict with Stumptown meeting. Problem solved! Let me know when it gets rescheduled.

Bob

[PDXDuck]

Whew! I really wanted to go but had a conflict with Stumptown meeting. Problem solved! Let me know when it gets rescheduled.

Bob

Second that. I was going to go but really wanted to make the Stumptown meeting too. Now I can make both.

Did they say anything else Adam, or just that it was postponed?

[Adam Schneider]

Here's Michelle's exact words: "They have postponed the meeting until Aug. However, they probably will not discuss the item then because it is a joint meeting with the BCC and county parks board. Let's touch base when I'm back after the 20th to confirm."

[adrian]

I haven't been on here in awhile and was just thinking about this course. I'm glad the meeting is postponed for now as well since I have to play records. I wonder who I know that knows people that might help make a difference....hmmmm:chinscratch: