Destroyer vs Force.... I think I want a more consistent disc manufacturer

[ChainBanger]

Well, last year and early this year I was throwing a destroyer for max distance. Since loosing my two destroyers, I got a new one and it's way too over stable. After that, I tried a new first run Boss and loved it. So I got a new Boss that was one of Feldberg's signature runs. Now, this new Boss is definitely more over stable than the first run. Please, someone tell me what other discs I should be looking at. The Discraft Force? I need something like a first run boss. Help Me, please. I just don't have the money to keep buying a disc that I think is going to one thing, when it ends up flying another way.

[snap7times]

one thing i have learned is the softer feel discs are less overstable than the firmer ones, so if you grab 2 171g star destroyers, they will feel different most of the time off the shelf, the softer ones will more likely be less overstable than the firmer ones... that is one way to go unless i'm wrong and Jim Oates and his partner are wrong too lol...

[Nathan]

i love the force. i think i have 3 or 4 and they all fly the same. its really consistant and i throw them for a lot of different shots. i've never throw the boss but i've seen people throw it. so if you like the boss i think there is a good chance that you will like the force. its also got the big rim like the boss and pretty close to the same over stability. it also doesn't matter what plastic you get cuz they fly the same. the force it what i'd recommend.

[Sausage Fingers]

Innova has the name recognition put poor quality control. Same disc models from one run to the next can have very different flight characteristics.

Discraft gets bad mouthed by Innova fanboys but doesn't seem to have nearly the inconsistencies in the same disc models from run to run.

Now if only someone could hook me up with lightweight FLX plastic...:chinscratch:

Ever seen a 150g FLX Surge or Force? I'd sure like to give those discs a try. Maybe Papa knows?:pirate:

[Nathan]

they only have the 150 surge in pro d, which isnt a very strong plastic. the force is only made in esp and z plastic and is not 150. it would be cool to see those but as far as i know they havent made one yet. scott might know if theres anything in the coming

[JMan]

The 150 Surge is actually X plastic, Discraft's best imho, but they are dropping much of the X plastic. As to the Force Boss debate: I have a few buddies who throw the boss, the love it or hate depending on the one they have with them. Personally I love the Force. I don't like ESP plastic so I waited for a run in Z and got a proto out of the Mid-West before the runs of Sparkle Z. I've never looked back, it is a force to be reckoned with. Since that first, I've picked up 2 Players Cup Sparkle Z back ups, and they throw just like the proto when it was new. And they break in so nice. Oh how I would love to see a run in X. May the force be wit jew.
J

[thehuberkid]

I also really like the Force. Just like Nathan said they all fly the same and can throw for a good back hand or fore hand.

[Trozzle!!!]

I totally understand the thing about the differences in Innovas molds, but personally it doesnt affect me. I have 2 172g Star Tee Rex's. Yes you would think that they would fly the same, but they actually dont. Any time I buy a disc, no matter the mold, I learn how to throw that particular disc. If something of the same mold doesnt fly the same, I learn how to throw that particular disc. with my 2 Tee Rex's, I use one for longer throws, and the other for more controlled long flights. I think if someone is an Innova only thrower, but bitches about there inconsitincies, they just need to learn how to throw and control each individual disc they throw.

[zippyboy]

But Troz, you know that it sucks to have a disc that you throw well, lose it, buy another, and find out that it is not at all what you were used to throwing. I liken that to picking up a half rack of Fat Tire, only to have it taste like Abbey. I may be able to drink the Abbey (and enjoy it), but that day I really wanted the Fat Tire. And it sucks to blow $12 or so on a mistake like that. So the moral would be not to lose your plastic?

[mine all mine]

It's kind of retarded to buy the same disc and have it do two different things. I mean come on, when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end! What is the point of buying a certain disc if it doesn't fly like the last one you bought? And you don't always lose them, sometimes they get a little too beat and you would like a fresh one.

[DexterHawk]

I'm going to call BS on this... When I've played in he mid west they are just as touchy about which runs and plastics their discraft disc are as we are here out west are about innova.

Besides, who invents the discs that we use and who imitates?

[snap7times]

This is why the pros say go to an open field and huk your discs so you will better understand what your discs will do and not be stuck in your head that an Orc is a speed 10 disc with -1 turn, 4 or 5 glide and a 3 fade... Just know that your disc is made to be approximately that type of characteristic and only you will know it's true flight pattern after throwing it a sufficient number of times. And that leads to just about any pro's suggestion to never use a new disc in tournament play because you do not know what it is going to do so therefore you will not throw it right etc..

[gwillim]

Besides, who invents the discs that we use and who imitates?

Both, actually.

[ChainBanger]

Has anyone tried the Riot by Latitude 64? You guy's are funny the way you bicker about different brands. Is asking about a Latitude 64 disc neutral? Maybe both Discraft and Innova lovers will hate on the foreign manufacturer together? I just want something more reliable for the Discs I end up replacing the most. I will still throw a lot of Innova and I will still throw my Buzzz. (So, both parties should un bunch there panties) Honestly, we all know Innova doesn't even try to be consistant. I want to find a company that is at least attempting a standard. Again this is for my Max distance drivers, the ones I loose the most. They need to fly as I would expect out of the bag. So far, the Force is on my shopping list. But, I'm curious about that Riot.

[Adam Schneider]

I'd love to try the Riot -- I like the idea of the non-right-angle lip underneath -- but I haven't seen any lighter than 172g.

[Sam]

No... Andy is right. Innova invents. Discraft imitates. Hey... it works for them. They are up to what... 6 or 7 percent market share? Maybe? :whistler:

Personally, I think the idea of losing a disc and then going to buy a back-up is ludicrous. If you do not have back-ups of everything in your bag already and know how it is going to fly prior to putting it in your bag, you are not doing it right.

And really... I have read ridiculous but this... "when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end" has to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you guys think that Innova is this inconsistent, you need to put the bong down and try embracing reality before posting more inane crap on the internet.

[Sausage Fingers]

And really... I have read ridiculous but this... "when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end" has to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you guys think that Innova is this inconsistent, you need to put the bong down and try embracing reality before posting more inane crap on the internet.

Says the guy who drinks the Innova cool-aid!:pirate:

[Tim]

And really... I have read ridiculous but this... "when I buy a Firebird, I want it to be a Firebird, not a valkyrie with a strong hyzer at the end" has to be about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. If you guys think that Innova is this inconsistent, you need to put the bong down and try embracing reality before posting more inane crap on the internet.

Hmm, I haven't experienced that with Firebirds, but I do own two Vikings. Both are champion, one is max weight, and flies like a slightly more stable Valk. The other is 163g, and flies like a Firebird. No bong was involved in the assessment of these flights, btw.

[bvdisc]

Bear in mind that when you lose a disc that you loved it was most likely a well worn disc. So even an exactly identical run will fly quite different when new as compared to your old disc.

Another thing that I do is to buy several of a mold at once. That way they come out of the same run so that they're consistent with one another. If I want to learn a disc it helps to have more then one of it to take to a field to throw.

[Sam]

Says the guy who drinks the Innova cool-aid!:pirate:

Puh-lease. I have thrown discs of all makers and have settled on the specific discs that I like. If you want to think me a kool-aid drinker because of this, that is cool. I have thrown many a Discraft disc and two of my thirteen aces are with the Glide.

But sure... I drink the Innova Kool-aid. :rolleyes:

[Sam]

Hmm, I haven't experienced that with Firebirds, but I do own two Vikings. Both are champion, one is max weight, and flies like a slightly more stable Valk. The other is 163g, and flies like a Firebird. No bong was involved in the assessment of these flights, btw.

A 163g Viking that flies like a Firebird - and you say no bong was involved. I find this very hard to believe, Tim. Have you thrown many Firebirds in your time?

[Adam Schneider]

I've heard this about Vikings too; it seems to be one of Innova's more inconsistent molds.

[Tim]

I found it hard to believe too...my main overstable disc is a Predator (for all intents and purposes, a Firebird), and the Viking flies similar--it might even be compared to an EXP or Banshee. I tend to prefer Innova (Millennium) drivers to Discraft, but when a lightweight disc is freakishly more stable than a max weight one of the same mold and plastic...well, you can hardly call that consistent.

[snap7times]

Could it be that you are subconsciously throwing the 163g differently than the 175g viking? I have owed 3-4 vikings in the past 2 years, all few similar to eachother and never had one that faded anywhere close to a firebird unless I eased up on it, alot...
And BVD is correct, you lose a conditioned disc and then get the same one off the shelf and realize it's nothing like the disc you lost. well throw it at least 20-30 more times before making any judgements. If I threw every disc less than 20 times before passing judgement on it, I would be throwing a 132g #1 Hyzer as my main driver now with almost zero Innova or Discraft in my bag.
Also, maybe the disc isn't exactly the way your old one flew, but hey, you'll learn what that current disc will do and use it to fit your game, not force the disc to fly where it dosent wanna fly.
The champ valk I have now is nothing like the one I bought off the shelf 6 months ago.
And Sam finally makes a good "Innova-Kool-Aide" induced comment about the backups in the bag already and knowing what they do before starting a round... never have a disc that you don't trust in your bag for a round. Save it for a practice day where you will give it the attention it deserves to learn what it does for you before using it on the course where it counts.

wow, just previewed this and i feel like my words just runnn my toungue out of my mouth... good thing i can sign it... :biggrin2::angel::slapface:

Edit: All my vikings have been 169-172g, just for the record... And i parked a hole here in rocklin that I have never been able to park before, thanks to my 170 viking...

[Sam]

Maybe it was a Banshee that they just wrote Viking on? Have you compared the profile with your other Viking? I mean... is it REALLY a Viking? I have a hard time believing that the discs look the same as far as plate thickness, rim height and thickness and fly so differently.

[Tim]

I actually got the 163g one first. I think I'd just bought it on a whim after reading one of Dave D.'s posts about how the Viking was the most unappreciated disc and whatnot. Figuring at 163g, I'd be able to throw it a mile, I let it launch and it flew straight and immediately to the left. I tried keeping it in my bag for 2 weeks or so, trying to get a good feel for it, but it got to the point where my buddies would be like "oh god, you're going to try to throw THAT thing again?" :laughing: I think the light one may have a flatter top than the max weight, but I haven't looked at the rim profiles side by side. If it were the case that it is indeed a misstamped disc, that would explain things, but wouldn't do much to defend Innova's quality control. :wink2:

[Sam]

Compare the two. Both companies misstamp discs.

[gwillim]

I have a hard time believing that the discs look the same as far as plate thickness, rim height and thickness and fly so differently.

Come on Sam, this is a problem with all manufacturers occasionally. The flight pattern can be altered significantly by things that we can't see with our eyes. It's very sensitive.

There was a run of Z Predators back in 2004 that were all orange. They flew NOTHING like Predators, in fact, they were almost more like an XS in terms of stability.

There was an early run of yellow CE Valkyries that were coined "Franken Valks" because they flew VERY similarly to Firebirds

The Dcraft Crush had a problem where the first run flew drastically different than the production runs.

The Boss is a more current example. The star stamped boss is visually the same disc (maybe a bit flatter) as the production run boss, however the production run boss is significantly more overstable.


I could go on and on and on.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the harder/more powerful you throw, the more these inconsistencies are evident. Someone maxing out at 300' isn't going to be able to see anywhere near the same discrepancies as someone bombing 450'.

[Sam]

Come on Sam, this is a problem with all manufacturers occasionally. The flight pattern can be altered significantly by things that we can't see with our eyes. It's very sensitive.

But the difference between these things Firebird and these things Viking should be very apparent, I would think. No?

The rest of your post was excellent and does quite a bit to expose the other side of the "consistency" issue that somehow Innova gets saddled with while Discraft usually gets the free pass from the undereducated masses. Thanks. :cheers:

[snap7times]

I actually got the 163g one first. I think I'd just bought it on a whim after reading one of Dave D.'s posts about how the Viking was the most unappreciated disc and whatnot. Figuring at 163g, I'd be able to throw it a mile, I let it launch and it flew straight and immediately to the left. I tried keeping it in my bag for 2 weeks or so, trying to get a good feel for it, but it got to the point where my buddies would be like "oh god, you're going to try to throw THAT thing again?" :laughing: I think the light one may have a flatter top than the max weight, but I haven't looked at the rim profiles side by side. If it were the case that it is indeed a misstamped disc, that would explain things, but wouldn't do much to defend Innova's quality control. :wink2:

Take the viking to a local pro shop, have it looked at... I doubt it is a viking if you are throwing it properly...

[Tim]

Assuming I can find both, I'll compare them when I get home. And sure, discs get misstamped...but they're supposed to get an X-out stamp on top of that when that happens.

[gwillim]

But the difference between these things Firebird and these things Viking should be very apparent, I would think. No?

I need you to re-phrase that before I answer it, I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.


the "consistency" issue that somehow Innova gets saddled with while Discraft usually gets the free pass from the undereducated masses:cheers:

Everyone loves an underdog story.

<begin rant>

Brand loyalty in disc golf is STUPID. The people that have been playing for only a short time and are willing to stand up and claim a brand that they throw, and defend the credentials of this brand over that brand are pretty numb in the head. The idea that one brand's products are somehow better than another brands products is absurd, when in reality they're virtually the same and the only thing that really matters is who's throwing the disc. If you have enough skill to shoot -5 at Pier Park with an all Innova bag, but you're unable to do the same with an all Dcraft bag, then you have a big problem.

Sam mentioned that the consistency issue gets placed primarily in Innova's lap in everyday DG conversation. That's true, at least here in PDX. In other parts of the DG World, people view it the exact opposite. So what is it? Personally, I think that the drivers produced from Dcraft in 2003-2006 were far superior in plastic blend and consistency than the Innova drivers that came out at the same time. Is it true? Maybe, but it's a pretty hard thing to prove, so instead we jump on the brand loyalty bandwagon and just speculate until everyone around us speculates the same thing. In essence, we have created a fact.

I could keep writing, but I'm about to get to the point where I'm calling people out, and that's pretty dumb also, as well as unnecessary.

In closing, brand loyalty in DG is dumb, unless you're sponsored, then it's a necessary evil.

</end rant>

[gwillim]

Oh, before anybody comments, I was referring ONLY to Discraft and Innova in the above post.

[JMan]

I throw all Discraft. I could jump on the brand loyalty bandwagon, but won't. Hey I've thrown every brand out there over the years. I throw all Discraft for simplicity, for me fewer molds I can throw well is more important than brand. I finally made the switch to all Discraft because I tired of the inherent inconsistencies of innova. And while there are bound to be differences between runs from either manufacturers, Discraft variances are less perceptible to me. That consistency builds confidence, and confidence means I miss my putts by smaller measurements. Heck, if I could drain 90% of my putts with a hard buffalo chip, I'd be throwing a buffalo chip.

[Sam]

So I can still mock people who throw the Maximizer?

To rephrase my question... if you look at a Viking and you look at a Firebird, there should be some areas of difference that just jump out at you - such as rim-depth, rim width, flight-plate thickness, etc. Wouldn't you think that these differences (which makes these discs fly so differently) are apparent to the naked eye?

[gwillim]

Wouldn't you think that these differences (which makes these discs fly so differently) are apparent to the naked eye?

Definitely, but I thought we were referring to identical discs that fly much differently?

[Sam]

We are. But isn't the flight of a disc determined by things such as rim-width and flight-plate and whatnot?

I am just having a hard time being convinced that a disc that is built like a Viking and clearly has Viking characteristics would magically fly like a disc that has completely different characteristics. I mean... where does this stop? Can a Coyote be like a Firebird? How about an Aviar? Certainly, there must be some limitations on this... right?

[gwillim]

We are. But isn't the flight of a disc determined by things such as rim-width and flight-plate and whatnot?

I am just having a hard time being convinced that a disc that is built like a Viking and clearly has Viking characteristics would magically fly like a disc that has completely different characteristics. I mean... where does this stop? Can a Coyote be like a Firebird? How about an Aviar? Certainly, there must be some limitations on this... right?

The limitation that you're looking for would be the speed of the disc.

[gwillim]

If the discs are the same speed, they can be shaped all wacky but have the same flight, or be shaped similarly and have different flights.

Take the Surge and the Surge SS, for instance. Visually, they are quite similar, however their flight pattern is way different.

And another example on the other side would be a Whippet vs. Xtreme. Visually, they are not very similar, but their flight pattern and speed are very similar.

[Tim]

OK, so here's the disc in question, I apologize for shitty cell phone camera quality:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/viking/viking2.jpg

(I was actually lying through my teeth, it's 162g, not 163)
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/viking/viking1.jpg

Next to the "good" Viking:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/viking/viking5.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/viking/viking6.jpg

And stacked on top:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/viking/viking4.jpg

There's definitely a discrepancy between the two discs, the freak Viking's rim sits taller than the normal one's. The shape of the wing is different, but I can't tell if it's a different mold, or that they cooled differently or whatnot. I'm really wishing I had a better camera right now, it's hard to get the angle right using the phone's "viewfinder".

For the sake of comparison, here it is next to a 9x KC Pro FB:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/timcoye/viking/vikingfb.jpg

[snap7times]

well the freak viking is not a viking... looks like an orc to me... anything but a viking...

[mine all mine]

There was a run of Z Predators back in 2004 that were all orange. They flew NOTHING like Predators, in fact, they were almost more like an XS in terms of stability.
The Dcraft Crush had a problem where the first run flew drastically different than the production runs.


Hey Ryan, I just lost my last Orange Predator of that run. Carlo gave me like 4 of them. Crazy glide but almost no stability.

[mine all mine]

Oh yeah, almost forgot, Someone is A Moron, I was exaggerating if you couldn't tell. I was making an overstatement to the fact that when you buy ANY disc it would be nice if it flew how it was meant to from the manufacturers description. Not saying that there aren't occasional variances.

[gwillim]

Hey Ryan, I just lost my last Orange Predator of that run. Carlo gave me like 4 of them. Crazy glide but almost no stability.
I hated those things, I got suckered into buying two of them before I realized the whole run was botched. I blame Carlo, he never liked me anyhow!

[Toby Puttzinski]

The inconsistency in certain molds can be a positive thing:
more variety > more choices = better chance of finding the particular disc that makes the bag

I wouldn't want all discs to be uniform-- I like having the option of domey vs flat, or stiff vs flexible, without having to choose an entirely different disc-- alot of folks love their 'flippy' bosses, while others swear by their super stable boss. (or their straight flick vs crazy stable flick)
<this is all assuming the discs are the same weight, new, and not beat in>

[Scott]

The inconsistency in certain molds can be a positive thing:
more variety > more choices = better chance of finding the particular disc that makes the bag

I wouldn't want all discs to be uniform-- I like having the option of domey vs flat, or stiff vs flexible, without having to choose an entirely different disc-- alot of folks love their 'flippy' bosses, while others swear by their super stable boss. (or their straight flick vs crazy stable flick)
<this is all assuming the discs are the same weight, new, and not beat in>

And what happens when that perfect disc gets lost? Or too worn in? How do you easily replace it?

[Bullseye]

And what happens when that perfect disc gets lost? Or too worn in? How do you easily replace it?

I think this is a good argument for the practice of using fewer disc molds, but simply using multiples of those molds. Keep one new, one middle and one beat-up. That way if you lose the new one... get another new one and replace it. If you lose the beat up one, you have the middle one waiting in the wings to replace it.

We all know discs change flight characteristics throughout their lives... plan for it.

[Sam]

Oh yeah, almost forgot, Someone is A Moron

It's true. Some clown thinks his Firebird is going to fly like a Valkyrie or was trying to impress his buddies with his stunning wit - two things that don't seem to have any basis in reality. 99,9% of all discs made fly as they are supposed to, I am guessing. But please... keep making up ridiculous crap and posting it on the internet. It's not me you're making look like an idiot so feel free.

[TYVEK]

99,9% of all discs made fly as they are supposed to, I am guessing.


to make a comment like that a person is either a VERY new player and hasnt thrown very many discs, OR the person has been smoking the wrong stuff and chasing it with to much spirits!

i just really hope sam wasnt serious when he wrote that.

[Sam]

Please... Mr. 886... I think we have already covered how little you know about frisbees in another thread.

[snap7times]

okay okay okay.... anywaysssssss, back to the point on hand is that it seems that there are a few if not more, that want to understand more about the game. Now the topic that I see popping up often is the, "What to do if I have this perfect disc and I lose it. I want to buy another one off the shelf to replace it and it flies nothing like the one I lost."
Now those who seem to have been playing longer or have been playing with more advanced/pro players are saying the same thing, so I'll just say it again, in my 2nd language so pardon me...
For those who are asking about perfect flying discs and what to do to ensure your game does not falter if you lose that disc.... Have at least 2 discs that are exactly the same or very similar so if you lose one during a round, you have a back up ready to go and your confidence remains. We all have gone through this phase where you lost that "go-to" disc and didn't have a backup and started falling apart when the confidence dropped. It happens to everyone, now I will tell you, one of the most important parts of the game in improving your confidence, stability, endurance and skills is to always have at least 2 of each type of flight pattern disc in your bag that you are confident in; not have a brand new back up that you have thrown less than 20 times or so.
Fewer Molds, more of those molds is what someone said above at least twice and that is true for those who need to learn confidence and reliability in their discs.
For example;
In my bag right now I have a tonnnn of discs, because its practice season for me with my next tournament in 3 weeks. But I have my confident discs, and my expirimenting discs...

Confident discs
168g BEAT star wraith - 3 years old - Long turnover
169g BEAT star Tee-Rex - 3 years old - Long turnover with more fade than the wraith
171g New-semi beat Star Wraith - 2 years old - 12x KC so super straight.
171 New-semi beat star Tee-Rex - 1 year old - Straight with stronger fade than 12x wraith. Great for long sidearms.
173g Champ Boss - Open long distance - 3 months old - For those must go long-let her rip shots.
171g Star Destroyer - Open Long distance - no wind shot, Boss for great for wind, let her rip shot. Great for long sidearms.
170g Champ Viking - Straight with minimal fade
174 champ glow Teebird - Straight with more fade than a viking and 50 feet shorter, great for those must park sidearm or backhand from 100-200 feet.

Now I will stop there, since my point has been made. As you can see, if i lose one disc, I have something very similar and would not need to change my game much. I actually have 1 more teerex and 3 more destroyers in my bag to back those teerex and destroyers. LEARN your disc before going to the course. I see too many people throw a disc in front of their friends and say, WTF dude, it's supposed to have a small turn and then a small fade, the website said so or something like that...

[Tim]

I don't think a player rating has that much bearing on deciding disc consistencies. I got more feedback on the Viking discussed from guys who handle way more discs than most of us ever will, and the consensus is that it IS indeed a Viking that ended up with a more concave wing, probably due to shrinkage (it's definitely not an Orc, btw, Orcs were a mainstay of my bag for a while--they have a wider wing and less pronounced "notch"). They also backed up Adam's point that the Viking is notorious for being inconsistent.

I agree that you should know your bag and have backups and whatnot, but you should be able to buy a Devilhawk and expect it to be fly like a Devilhawk is supposed to. If I win scrip and paw through a box, I don't want to have to gamble thinking, "Boy, I sure hope this one flies like that one Devilhawk I got, and not like the other one."

[TYVEK]

Please... Mr. 886... I think we have already covered how little you know about frisbees in another thread.

No actually the only thing you covered is how arrogent and close minded you are. i can admit to being wrong, and i learn from it. you dont seem to be able to admit any faults of yours, or being wrong. so in turn you are denying yourself chances at learning more and bettering yourself as a person.

I ADMIT IT. i dont know much about FRISBEES. i dont play ultimate or participate in freestyle, or do much with dog's. but i do know more than the average bear about golfing DISCS. until you are willing to accept other peoples opinions, you shouldnt be touting your own like they are the LAW.

[Sam]

LOL - I would think that your player rating for character assessment might be a LITTLE higher than your player rating for FRISBEE golf. Not much, though. Maybe 890. You nailed the arrogant (note the proper spelling, though) part but I wouldn't say that I am close-minded. I also admit to being wrong and do learn from it.

And I wouldn't say that I consider my own opinion as LAW. I just recognize a lesser-informed opinion when I see one and I have seen nothing but that from you if I am being honest.

But please... do continue to post about things that you only have a very rudimentary understanding of. It is, at the very least, fun to see some Intermediate level posting. :cheers:

[keys]

LOL - I would think that your player rating for character assessment might be a LITTLE higher than your player rating for FRISBEE golf. Not much, though. Maybe 890. You nailed the arrogant (note the proper spelling, though) part but I wouldn't say that I am close-minded. I also admit to being wrong and do learn from it.

And I wouldn't say that I consider my own opinion as LAW. I just recognize a lesser-informed opinion when I see one and I have seen nothing but that from you if I am being honest.

But please... do continue to post about things that you only have a very rudimentary understanding of. It is, at the very least, fun to see some Intermediate level posting. :cheers:

Sam,

You've been such a good poster all month. What crawled up your ass in the last 24 hours?

[Bullseye]

Sam,

You've been such a good poster all month. What crawled up your ass in the last 24 hours?

.. http://www.stayfree.com/images/illustration/il_ut_regwings.gif

[Sam]

Uh, Jeff... you're using those wrong. Just FYI.

Dustin, I don't tolerate people saying dumb things very well. Plus, I just stopped smoking again.

[TYVEK]

And I wouldn't say that I consider my own opinion as LAW. I just recognize a lesser-informed opinion when I see one and I have seen nothing but that from you if I am being honest.


well at least your being honest. when you see a "lesser-informed" opinion, why dont you try and educate that person instead of slamming your "holier than thou" attitude on them? as far as my spelling goes, i dont care if i cant win the northwest disc golf spelling bee championship. one or two letters out of place does not effect the way i throw a disc. and most people understand what word i am trying to write.

how do you recognize "lesser-informed" opnions? you would have to be comparing them to your own, and whos to say that your opinion is the more informed. it just may be that yours is the "lesser-informed" and you just dont know enough to know that it is the "lesser-informed" opinion. keep that in mind. and also that PRIDE GOES BEFORE A FALL.






as far as this thread goes. i wish that Discraft would come up with a disc that is just as fast as the force, but not so overstable. if given the choice between "destroyer" and "force" i would have to say destroyer. just the disc mold mind you not the plastic it is made out of. innova can keep there plastic.

[Matt B.]

"win the northwest disc golf spelling bee championship"

Now here's an event I would pre-register instantly for! I am a GOOD SPELLER!
I daresay I am a 1000 rated speller! My moment of glory was denied me when in fourth grade I got the freaking chicken pox the night before the St. Therese Catholic Grade School spelling bee. (Note to Sam: I rejected the confirmation process, and have fully recovered from being an altar boy)

I was devastated, as I am sure you can imagine. Paul Koleske won the bee on "exaggerate", and I totally knew how to spell that.

Oh, I throw Innova....does that matter?

[snap7times]

.. http://www.stayfree.com/images/illustration/il_ut_regwings.gif

actually, it was Trozzle's freakingly large spider that found it's way to Sam, which would explain alot of things.. But since Sam quit smoking, I wouldn't be suprised if a nicotine patch found it's way there as well...

Oh yeah and i'm intermediate.... should I be concerned?:blush:

[Sam]

well at least your being honest. when you see a "lesser-informed" opinion, why dont you try and educate that person instead of slamming your "holier than thou" attitude on them?

Um... I might have attempted that if you hadn't entered the first thread I noticed you in saying how great Discraft is and how crappy Innova is. You see... I can also recognize a "holier than thou" attitude. Since you seem to have a biblical theme going, maybe check the mirror to see if you have any timbers in your own eye before judging me, Tyvek.

as far as my spelling goes, i dont care if i cant win the northwest disc golf spelling bee championship. one or two letters out of place does not effect the way i throw a disc. and most people understand what word i am trying to write.I guess it comes down to respect. I have enough respect for the people I want to read my posts that I don't want them to have to guess as to what I mean.

how do you recognize "lesser-informed" opnions? you would have to be comparing them to your own, and whos to say that your opinion is the more informed. it just may be that yours is the "lesser-informed" and you just dont know enough to know that it is the "lesser-informed" opinion.Again... it was the "Discraft rules and Innova drools" position that you took that told me all that I needed to know, really. Adding to that, though, was the comment about passing me on the disc golf superhighway or some nonsense like that when you have 60 points to make up before you are even AT my rating. You speak a lot about things that seem to apply to you as much if not more than they may apply to me, actually.

I stand by my statement that yours is the lesser-informed opinion. You can take this as a slam but I don't mean it as one. Just an observation.

keep that in mind. and also that PRIDE GOES BEFORE A FALL.See above re: things applying to you more than me.

[TYVEK]

Um... I might have attempted that if you hadn't entered the first thread I noticed you in saying how great Discraft is and how crappy Innova is. You see... I can also recognize a "holier than thou" attitude. Since you seem to have a biblical theme going, maybe check the mirror to see if you have any timbers in your own eye before judging me, Tyvek.
.

just because i think that Discraft is a better company with better plastic, does not mean that I think i am better than anybody!! i dont think that way at all! it doesnt offend me that you think that of me because you dont know me. although from what you do know of me by my posts, it seems as though i have given the wrong impression of who i am. and i appologize for that. if it seemed as though i was giving off a holier than thou attitude, i am sorry. that is not how i want to be.

thtat apology goes to everybody here, not just sam. i get a bit to excited sometimes. until further notice i will continue to beleive that Discraft is better than innova and i will continue to support and boost the name of Discraft and my posts will reflect that. if thats something you disagree with, then you will just have to deal with it. i NEVER want to sound like I am BETTER than somebody else.

sam, i dont feel the need to defend or expain my player rating to you. I tried to explain it in another thread, maybe you didnt read it.:nono:
after this season, if my rating has not changed any than i will have deserved alll the grief you have given to me, but if my rating ends up higher than yours, i would like to ask you to drop it.

[Sam]

just because i think that Discraft is a better company with better plastic, does not mean that I think i am better than anybody!! i dont think that way at all! it doesnt offend me that you think that of me because you dont know me. although from what you do know of me by my posts, it seems as though i have given the wrong impression of who i am. and i appologize for that. if it seemed as though i was giving off a holier than thou attitude, i am sorry. that is not how i want to be.

Well, it seems like we both gave wrong impressions in that case. I wasn't exactly going for the "I'm better than you lowly Discraft thrower" either. I apologize to you if you thought that I was trying to say anything like that. I wasn't.

sam, i dont feel the need to defend or expain my player rating to you. I tried to explain it in another thread, maybe you didnt read it.:nono:
after this season, if my rating has not changed any than i will have deserved alll the grief you have given to me, but if my rating ends up higher than yours, i would like to ask you to drop it.

Feh... I brought it up because I am a dick. I won't bring it up again as it seems you're not the dick I thought you were. I hope your player rating does go up a bunch. I would be super impressed if it did go up 60 points in a year, though.

Thanks for slowing this down some so we could talk to each other rather than past each other. :cheers:

[gwillim]

Thanks guys.

[Matt B.]

Thanks guys.

So, uh...no one's interested in my 'disc golf player spelling bee' idea?

Could we have a very gentle hug at least?

[gwillim]

Could we have a very gentle hug at least?

Next time I see you, Matt, I got a sweet little man hug for you!

[Jeff Hemmerling]

So, uh...no one's interested in my 'disc golf player spelling bee' idea?

I'm ready and willing. I'd be happy if the bee consisted of just these words: your, you're, to, too, their, they're. These words account for about 80% of the spelling errors I see on the internet. Seems like people (read "kids") these days just don't understand or care about spelling and wouldn't know a homonym if it hit 'em in the face.

[JMan]

Sorry Jeff, text messages have done away with the subtle differences we old farts remember.:wink2:

[Sam]

lose and loose

[Adam Schneider]

Sorry Jeff, text messages have done away with the subtle differences we old farts remember.:wink2:
Geez, you're willing to surrender that quickly? They probably said the same thing about radio, 90 years ago.

[Joshua Olmsted]

I'll state for the record that as a young person, I'm slowly attempting to start a movement for properly spelled and grammar formatted text messages. I'd be oh, so down for a disc golf spelling bee, perhaps as a side game at a larger DG tournament hmmm? HMMMM? :laughing:

[TYVEK]

. I'd be oh, so down for a disc golf spelling bee, perhaps as a side game at a larger DG tournament hmmm? HMMMM? :laughing:

maybe like with a putting challenge, so that when you miss a putt you would have to spell a word. and the putts and words would keep getting harder as it progressed. and the winner would get a BUZZZ or WASP! :shocked::biggrin2: ................you know, just because its a speeling bee!

[zippyboy]

Irony wins. Thus, a Buzzz should be the prize for the spelling bee.

You know, as the name of the disc is misspelled and all....

[Ol' Bob]

...a Buzzz should be the prize for the spellling beee?

[Sam]

You know, as the name of the disc is misspelled and all....

No, no... it's the WASP that's misspelled. They forgot the r and the o and the c and added a bunch of other letters for some weird reason. :whistler:

[Adam Schneider]

Misspelled discs... how about the Cro? Rhyno? Blurr?

[snap7times]

Misspelled discs... how about the Cro? Rhyno? Blurr?

xcalibur?

And what about names? I noticed that "a, n, t, h, a" are missing from "Sam" as well...

[Adam Schneider]

xcalibur?
I xcluded XCaliber and XPress from my "misspelled" list on the grounds that they were just having fun with the "X." Of course, "Cro" is wordplay too... I guess they all are, in one way or another.

[Sam]

And what about names? I noticed that "a, n, t, h, a" are missing from "Sam" as well...

:rolleyes:

Does snap7times have something to do with a jock strap? Like, you snap them 7 times?

[Adam Schneider]

Actually it's "b, u, s, a" missing from Sam's name. He's a walking, talking, disc-throwing filled pastry.

[Scott]

Actually it's "b, u, s, a" missing from Sam's name. He's a walking, talking, disc-throwing filled pastry.

Holy crap, that was funny. I had to look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambusa

[Bullseye]

xcalibur?

And what about names? I noticed that "a, n, t, h, a" are missing from "Sam" as well...

Hmmm... I have never questioned Sam's gender.

I did however think "Samule" was a more appropriate substitute for "Samuel"; mainly because he's pretty stubborn... and occasionally... a bit of an ass.

But... that's just me. ;)

[snap7times]

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
ahhhh that is a story about snap7times to tell in person... not a great one but at least a factual one...

[Sam]

Now if the name were Samuel that would be apt. Creative parents left off everything after the M...

[Bullseye]

Now if the name were Samuel that would be apt. Creative parents left off everything after the M...

Its never too late Sam. I do recall a guy changing his legal name to "Fly Fishing In America" or something like that ;)

[Sam]

True... or...
They Hate Me

[Adam Schneider]

Its never too late Sam. I do recall a guy changing his legal name to "Fly Fishing In America" or something like that ;)
A character in a book, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trout_Fishing_in_America


I'm tempted to abuse my admin powers and change Sam's username to "Samule," but no... not this time. :whistler:

[Sam]

A character in a book, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trout_Fishing_in_America

And a couple of people, too. From the page you cited:

In March 1994, a teenager named Peter Eastman Jr. from Carpinteria, California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpinteria,_California) legally changed his name to "Trout Fishing in America", and now teaches English in Japan. [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trout_Fishing_in_America#cite_note-1) At around the same time, National Public Radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Public_Radio) reported on a young couple who had named their baby "Trout Fishing in America".

Incidentally, Carpinteria is only 25 minutes from Ojai and I threw a Destroyer there but not a Force - just to bring this thread-drift back on track.... kinda.

[Bullseye]

A character in a book, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trout_Fishing_in_America


I'm tempted to abuse my admin powers and change Sam's username to "Samule," but no... not this time. :whistler:

That Wiki talks about the guy who changed his name. He didn't live too far from me at the time, so I saw the news article when it happened.

I must confess that would not be my first choice for a new name...

[Adam Schneider]

Incidentally, Carpinteria is only 25 minutes from Ojai and I threw a Destroyer there but not a Force - just to bring this thread-drift back on track.... kinda.
Nice try.

[cwcurry]

Hi, I'm new to these forums. I heard you all discussing the new Innova Kool-aid and I'd like to try throwing this disc, but I can't find it anywhere! Please help me with this.

P.S. If no one has information regarding this disc, then please recommend a Discraft equivalent!

[Tim]

You might try the eagerly anticipated Discraft Little Hug.

[GettinBetter]

I think that if you have brand loyalty that is fine, just don't make outragous claims about one or the other. Some differences between the big two is their plastic, def. different feels. Also, midrange has some different diameters. Other than that what feels good in your hand and what gives you confidence.

We should have a "throwing" party with a bunch of discraft and innova discs with no stamps or markings and see who can correctly guess that most discs. Kind of like a blind taste test between coke and pepsi.

[Sausage Fingers]

We should have a "throwing" party with a bunch of discraft and innova discs with no stamps or markings and see who can correctly guess that most discs. Kind of like a blind taste test between coke and pepsi.

THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!:pirate:

[tedanner0326]

innova has great quality control, but very slight differences between all of there discs...even 1 gram can make a big difference. i have thrown 3 discraft discs and thrown the same models that one of my friends owns (buzz, surge, and avenger). not one time could i get a consistent throw out of these dics, discraft needs to hire a third party to take over their quality control. pay attention to your wind conditions (headwind=more understable tailwind=more overstable) and your disc weights as well as plastic type and stiffness, these all affect the stability of the disc

[TYVEK]

innova has great quality control, but very slight differences between all of there discs...even 1 gram can make a big difference. i have thrown 3 discraft discs and thrown the same models that one of my friends owns (buzz, surge, and avenger). not one time could i get a consistent throw out of these dics, discraft needs to hire a third party to take over their quality control. pay attention to your wind conditions (headwind=more understable tailwind=more overstable) and your disc weights as well as plastic type and stiffness, these all affect the stability of the disc

i think that when you wrote this you must have been halucinating, because you got it TOTALLY backwards. Discraft is the one with the quality control, and innova just shoves discs out the door without caring about consitency! innova has great molds, but their plastic is always changing and it is always inconsistent between runs.

[Eric Olson]

i think that when you wrote this you must have been halucinating, because you got it TOTALLY backwards. Discraft is the one with the quality control, and innova just shoves discs out the door without caring about consitency! innova has great molds, but their plastic is always changing and it is always inconsistent between runs.I don't have a horse in this race. I throw discs made by Innova, Discraft, Gateway, whatever. All I care about is do they fly well, and will they still fly well the next time I throw them.

Having said that, I think if there are actually greater inconsistencies within the same mold with Innova discs than there are with Discraft, it probably has a lot more to do with total volume of discs produced and sold than anything else. I'm not even sure that's proven to be true, anyway. There are examples of Discraft plastic being wildly inconsistent within the same mold also (Flash anyone?). Assuming it is true though, if you're selling 10 Aviars for every one Magnet (or whatever, just a random example) then there will be 10 times the number in circulation. It follows that there will be 10 times the chance of any 2 Aviars having different flight characteristics than any 2 Magnets due to many variables including ambient temp and humidity conditions during manufacture, more batches of plastic having been used over time, etc, etc...

I will concede the point that perpetuating myths about plastic is more interesting than the simple facts though.

[Sausage Fingers]

i think that when you wrote this you must have been halucinating, because you got it TOTALLY backwards. Discraft is the one with the quality control, and innova just shoves discs out the door without caring about consitency! innova has great molds, but their plastic is always changing and it is always inconsistent between runs.

Thanks TYVEK! I about had a heart attack when I read that too.:pirate:

So now the experiment needs to be not only blank Innova & Discraft discs but also blank discs of the same mold from different runs...:chinscratch:

[Tim Price]

My #1 slice flies like a #1 hyzer. Now who is really worse off when it comes to quality control?

[Sausage Fingers]

My #1 slice flies like a #1 hyzer. Now who is really worse off when it comes to quality control?

Tim, maybe you should take your discussions about Lightning plastic to another forum, we're talking about serious disc golf products here...:biggrin2:
:pirate:

[Tim Price]

Tim, maybe you should take your discussions about Lightning plastic to another forum, we're talking about serious disc golf products here...:biggrin2:
:pirate:

You sir are right. Now, when will odsa be up again