PDGA's on the ball!

["Over the Hill" Bob]

So last night I finally committed to become a PDGA Official. I had read somewhere on their site that you can choose to have the test sent via email and since Stumptown is an Affiliate Member the test would be free. I went through the process of filling out all of the information to order the test thinking at some point I would be asked for Affiliate Member information and whether I wanted the test on paper or emailed. I got to the end and never had the option so I didn't click on the button to finish and instead hit my back arrow. Didn't matter the order went through. I promptly emailed them this morning only to find out that the test and rules book were processed and sent out in the mail already. The PDGA sent it out right away? Who'd a thunk! :slapface:

Bob

[RonTheWhip]

yeah...you got lucky :)

I just got my certified official card in the mail a week or so ago...I was certified 2/12/2008.

so sometimes they are on the ball and sometimes the ball arrives a year late :)

[D-Walk]

Where on their webpage is the info about becoming an official? I'd be interested in looking into it to see if its something I would be interested in.

[Scott]

So last night I finally committed to become a PDGA Official. I had read somewhere on their site that you can choose to have the test sent via email and since Stumptown is an Affiliate Member the test would be free. I went through the process of filling out all of the information to order the test thinking at some point I would be asked for Affiliate Member information and whether I wanted the test on paper or emailed. I got to the end and never had the option so I didn't click on the button to finish and instead hit my back arrow. Didn't matter the order went through. I promptly emailed them this morning only to find out that the test and rules book were processed and sent out in the mail already. The PDGA sent it out right away? Who'd a thunk! :slapface:

Bob

Don't get too excited - it hasn't arrived yet. Wait until it's in your hands.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Becoming a PDGA Official:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/becoming-a-pdga-official

[Bob Horning]

So last night I finally committed to become a PDGA Official. I had read somewhere on their site that you can choose to have the test sent via email and since Stumptown is an Affiliate Member the test would be free. I went through the process of filling out all of the information to order the test thinking at some point I would be asked for Affiliate Member information and whether I wanted the test on paper or emailed. I got to the end and never had the option so I didn't click on the button to finish and instead hit my back arrow. Didn't matter the order went through. I promptly emailed them this morning only to find out that the test and rules book were processed and sent out in the mail already. The PDGA sent it out right away? Who'd a thunk! :slapface:

Bob

That's great Bob, as far as I know we do need more people to step up like you!:bowing::cheers:

["Over the Hill" Bob]

That's great Bob, as far as I know we do need more people to step up like you!:bowing::cheers:

Thanks Bob! So I ordered on the 9th and recieved the test in the mail on the 11th. Test completed and emailed back on the 12th. So lets take bets on how long it takes to get the word that I'm the new "Sheriff" in town. :cop:PDGA website says 4-6 weeks. Can they set a record like ORS registrations this year?:whistler:

Bob :D

[Flash]

Thanks Bob! So I ordered on the 9th and recieved the test in the mail on the 11th. Test completed and emailed back on the 12th. So lets take bets on how long it takes to get the word that I'm the new "Sheriff" in town. :cop:PDGA website says 4-6 weeks. Can they set a record like ORS registrations this year?:whistler:

Bob :D
Jeff Mittl had his test ordered completed and graded in a mater of 2 weeks time frame. But that might have something to do with his name being on the TD agreement for an A-tier and a National Tour event:shocked:

[Mystjava]

Thanks Bob! So I ordered on the 9th and recieved the test in the mail on the 11th. Test completed and emailed back on the 12th. So lets take bets on how long it takes to get the word that I'm the new "Sheriff" in town. :cop:PDGA website says 4-6 weeks. Can they set a record like ORS registrations this year?:whistler:

Bob :D

I took the same test and got my results back in 4 weeks. I passed, so it is a good thing.. Just waiting on the card and when I can afford it - my official shirt.

Grin!

["Over the Hill" Bob]

I took the same test and got my results back in 4 weeks. I passed, so it is a good thing.. Just waiting on the card and when I can afford it - my official shirt.

Grin!

There's a shirt? :shocked: Cool! :cop:

Bob

[snap7times]

http://www.pdgastore.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1060066644

[Scott]

http://www.pdgastore.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1060066644

It's a shame you have to buy it. It would be nice to receive one after passing the test. That could even justify a higher fee for taking the test.

[snap7times]

I would think that would be a good idea, but if the test cost like 30-50 bucks, how many LESS people would take the test? Better to have more certified officials with a few of them having the shirt than to have only a few officials who all have shirts... different ways to look at it...

[LJ Jubner]

With all these new officials I expect to see more calls made about the "in the neighborhood "of the lie. If you ask me rules need to be followed all the time casual as well as tournament play. I heard a good one at CSI. ..." because we are only Am's and so the rules don't really apply to us anyway".... I almost cried I laughed so hard.

I am wondering If you are an official and break the rules or give poor decisions is there some sort of recourse like retesting or suspension of that credential?

In scouts; to be able to use a knife/ax you need what is called a tote' n chip certification . Once you know how to safely handle these tools you get this card. Show poor decision making and you lose a corner. Lose all four corners and you have to re qualify.,

[all2common]

With all these new officials I expect to see more calls made about...

all the weed smoking that goes on during every round I've ever played in a Washington tournament.

[TYVEK]

all the weed smoking that goes on during every round I've ever played in a Washington tournament.

i totally agree with this! i personally dont agree with smoking pot, but i know it happens on the course. i have come to accept that in casual rounds, but i cant stand it during a tournament. i played all the washington state series on the west side of the mountains last year. in every tournament there were people "smoking". i was new to the tournnament scene so i didnt feel i could say anything, but this has to stop!

especially the pro division.

[Scott]

i totally agree with this! i personally dont agree with smoking pot, but i know it happens on the course. i have come to accept that in casual rounds, but i cant stand it during a tournament. i played all the washington state series on the west side of the mountains last year. in every tournament there were people "smoking". i was new to the tournnament scene so i didnt feel i could say anything, but this has to stop!

especially the pro division.


At the risk of sounding naive, does this really go on during rounds in the pro divisions of PDGA tournaments?

[Mystjava]

It even happens during some of the local home tournaments that are not PDGA events.. It's frustrating for me because I don't smoke (neither stuff) and it's annoying because it is not professional if you want the whole family to come and watch the disc golf events; to be positive as well!
I don't want the Non-disc golfers to get an idea that "oh, they smoke pot during disc golf, so all disc golf players smoke pot..." That's full of crap - if you're going to do stuff - do it at home - not on the course, nor on the parking lot, nor on the road.. leave it at home!

[snap7times]

At the NT level, definitely not because too many eyes, A and B levels have been better about it in the last year or two... But I know Oregon is quite better at enforcing this than Washington and California since I have played plenty of tournaments in the COW states... I have made it a point to emphasize on this in all tournaments I have TD'd and have seen a few guys make faces and throw a tantrum but they followed the rules because they know the DDGA president has put his foot down on this ruling and I am an officer as well. Personally I dont care if the players do it two minutes before the round starts and 30 seconds after the last putt on our card.. but not during the round and certainly not in plain sight. From my own expirence at Washington tournaments, the players and staff have not given a flying "pig" about this rule in both Deaf and hearing tournaments.
As for the Pros, most of them stick to smoking legal cigarettes during rounds.
The reason i bring up "plain sight" is a few occasions, I have seen hearing players, mostly at Oregon and Cali tournaments, whip out these hugeeeeeeee buds that are like a foot long and pass it around for show in the parking lot of public parks like Adair, Wilamette, and Bryant... I was like WTFD, it only takes one park ranger or law enforcement officer to see this and we are done for!
Also, lets not forget that the venue for the Player's Cup has rejected us and we are out of a excellent venue at the Red Hawk course in Florida because of all the lewd behavior and pot smoking that was not done privately or wisely...

[LJ Jubner]

all the weed smoking that goes on during every round I've ever played in a Washington tournament.


And there is no smoke in Oregon with it's medical laws and such. That would be a good test someone with a MMC gets tossed from a tourney in a state that supports said cards. Ther goes the "against the law" agrument at least till it gets to court.


Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

[gwillim]

At the risk of sounding naive, does this really go on during rounds in the pro divisions of PDGA tournaments?

Yes.

[Scott]

And there is no smoke in Oregon with it's medical laws and such. That would be a good test someone with a MMC gets tossed from a tourney in a state that supports said cards. Ther goes the "against the law" agrument at least till it gets to court.


Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

Hate to break it to ya, but it's not just a law - it's a PDGA rule. And as a rule, it does fall under the jurisdiction of the rules officials.

And I would argue that smoking pot has a more detrimental effect on the game than a falling putt.

[TYVEK]

Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

as a TD arent you supposed to be enforcing PDGA rules? isnt it a rule that there is no drugs or alchohol usage allowed during a PDGA tournament play? if that is the case i would EXPECT you to enforce these RULES. not talking about the law, just rules of the game.

[Flash]

The problem is not that the rules do not cover the situation, the problem is getting people to enforce rules they may not agree with.

I don't know Jub personally but I am guessing by his remark that he might partake or have in the past used illegal drugs. To him it may not feel like something that should be illegal or against the rules. Some people feel that foot faulting is not a big deal and it should not be enforced unless the individual made the shot then you crucify him or her. Plain and simple a rule is a rule and if you are going to play by the rules, you need to enforce them in all conditions, even if you believe in it or not.

If someone foot faults call them on it even if they miss the putt and make the second one, regardless of whether or not it hurts you or helps you. The rules are not there for you to decide when and where to apply them, they are there to keep us all on the same page. If someone was violating the rules technically once it came to their attention they would assign the penalty themselves, isn't that the whole idea behind a self governed sport:headbang:

If you feel strongly about a rule and want to see it changed then take action use your educated mind and write a letter to the PDGA Board and Rules committee requesting a change. This is how the 2 meter rule came to pass!!!!!!

[gwillim]

If you feel strongly about a rule and want to see it changed then take action use your educated mind and write a letter to the PDGA Board and Rules committee requesting a change. This is how the 2 meter rule came to pass!!!!!!

Somebody ought to start a movement to get the falling putt rule changed so that if you fault on your putt but miss the putt, you aren't allowed to re-putt. But if you make it, you must re-putt.

[LJ Jubner]

The problem is not that the rules do not cover the situation, the problem is getting people to enforce rules they may not agree with.

I don't know Jub personally but I am guessing by his remark that he might partake or have in the past used illegal drugs. To him it may not feel like something that should be illegal or against the rules. Some people feel that foot faulting is not a big deal and it should not be enforced unless the individual made the shot then you crucify him or her. Plain and simple a rule is a rule and if you are going to play by the rules, you need to enforce them in all conditions, even if you believe in it or not.

If someone foot faults call them on it even if they miss the putt and make the second one, regardless of whether or not it hurts you or helps you. The rules are not there for you to decide when and where to apply them, they are there to keep us all on the same page. If someone was violating the rules technically once it came to their attention they would assign the penalty themselves, isn't that the whole idea behind a self governed sport:headbang:

If you feel strongly about a rule and want to see it changed then take action use your educated mind and write a letter to the PDGA Board and Rules committee requesting a change. This is how the 2 meter rule came to pass!!!!!!

Flash you made some good points about the rules all of the time. When you call a rules violation it's for everyone who is playing not to be just a

But if you look at the rules as a whole the no drugs/alcohol rule is the only one that does not have anything to do with the game itself. It does have an effect but no direct correlation. It's not an advantage and at it's worst a personal physical stamina issue. I like the two meter rule reference it's the perfect example of "a pick and choose" rule. sometimes Yes sometimes No. Even round to round. My point is the pdga is asking us to be policeman in a very close knit community. Why be so harsh. Use the time wasting rules and let the offender decide if it's worth it or not. You know not being ready to play when it's your turn, not responding to a request for your score. Use the rules already on the books.

[TYVEK]

the PDGA has to include the drugs and alchohol rule, because they are pushing for this sport to be in the mainstream and a legitiment profesional sport. NO other profesional sport allows drinking and drug use during the sport, and with most sports drug use at all is a big no no.

if we want to put disc golf on TV and help it be a more mainstream sport, then we need to do our part to help encourage a clean image of the sport.
i am pretty much just talking about tournaments here, because that is what is going to catch the eyes of the "outsiders" that we want to be included.

if a person takes part in drinking and "smoking" at home, thats their decision, but if they are going to direct a tournament then they need to leave it at home and be a Tournament Director and enforce ALL of the PDGA rules, whether they agree with them or not.


as far as it not effecting the game at all, i disagree. if you have a group of people that have some "smokers" and some non smokers, it will effect the way the non smokers play, because they dont want to be around that stuff. they have to smell it or wait for the other guys to come out of the woods, then that throws there mental game off even by just a little.

by taking it away, it evens up the playing field. this is my opinion.

[Scott]

Flash you made some good points about the rules all of the time. When you call a rules violation it's for everyone who is playing not to be just a

But if you look at the rules as a whole the no drugs/alcohol rule is the only one that does not have anything to do with the game itself. It does have an effect but no direct correlation. It's not an advantage and at it's worst a personal physical stamina issue. I like the two meter rule reference it's the perfect example of "a pick and choose" rule. sometimes Yes sometimes No. Even round to round. My point is the pdga is asking us to be policeman in a very close knit community. Why be so harsh. Use the time wasting rules and let the offender decide if it's worth it or not. You know not being ready to play when it's your turn, not responding to a request for your score. Use the rules already on the books.


Just because you don't agree with the rule doesn't mean it shouldn't be followed. It is a TD's responisbility to make sure ALL rules are followed, not just the ones that he/she believes in.

[LJ Jubner]

the PDGA has to include the drugs and alchohol rule, because they are pushing for this sport to be in the mainstream and a legitiment profesional sport. NO other profesional sport allows drinking and drug use during the sport, and with most sports drug use at all is a big no no.


Until just a few years ago almost all the major sports allowed recreational drug use through their collective bargining agreements. Funny I don't remember anything that looked like they asked or cared about my imput on the subject


if we want to put disc golf on TV and help it be a more mainstream sport, then we need to do our part to help encourage a clean image of the sport.
i am pretty much just talking about tournaments here, because that is what is going to catch the eyes of the "outsiders" that we want to be included.


Funny this seems I can't resist a pipe dream. I know about CBS and some Oklahoma tycoon who wants to publicze DG but still.

if a person takes part in drinking and "smoking" at home, thats their decision, but if they are going to direct a tournament then they need to leave it at home and be a Tournament Director and enforce ALL of the PDGA rules, whether they agree with them or not.

Again As aTD I was not consulted about this unilaterial decision

as far as it not effecting the game at all, i disagree. if you have a group of people that have some "smokers" and some non smokers, it will effect the way the non smokers play, because they dont want to be around that stuff. they have to smell it or wait for the other guys to come out of the woods, then that throws there mental game off even by just a little.

I do agree herethats why i offerd a reasonable solution.

by taking it away, it evens up the playing field. this is my opinion.

I respect you opinion and they way it was presented

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

Uhhhhhhhh.........actually the thread is, or was, about how responsive the PDGA has been in handling my efforts to become certified as an Official. :cop:

Bob

[Adam Schneider]

As for the Pros, most of them stick to smoking legal cigarettes during rounds.
So it's kosher, according to PDGA rules, to smoke tobacco during rounds? I'll just add that to the list of reasons I don't play in tournaments...

[all2common]

It could be flagged as a courtesy violation. Warning, then stroke.

[Tim]

I take issue with the claim that this happens so much more in Washington than in Oregon. I'm not going to deny that it happens here, but it's hardly an "every round" kind of thing, at least in the rounds I've played. I saw it a lot more when I played in Int., but since I moved up to Adv., I rarely see it at all. And the one big tourney I played in OR, people were openly sparking up right at tourney central!

[Magilla]

And there is no smoke in Oregon with it's medical laws and such. That would be a good test someone with a MMC gets tossed from a tourney in a state that supports said cards. Ther goes the "against the law" agrument at least till it gets to court.



:slapface: Oh...NO...regardless of an individuals "status".
It is still ILLEGAL to consume in a "Drug Free Zone" which includes ALL Schools & Parks. So anyone who attempted to use that excuse would just be shot down in the end.

:cheers:

[Sausage Fingers]

It could be flagged as a courtesy violation. Warning, then stroke.

This is only if the smoke bothers you. They can smoke cigs if they make sure to stand downwind of anyone who requests that they do so. If they still continue to bother you with their smoking, then the warnings/strokes occur.

And the one big tourney I played in OR, people were openly sparking up right at tourney central!

According to the competition manual, you are only prohibited from these activities from the 2-minute warning to when the scorecard is turned in. Were you offended by people drinking liquor at tourney central between rounds too or just the 'evil weed'?:pirate:

[Sausage Fingers]

"Drug Free Zone" which includes ALL Schools & Parks.

I knew about the schools but didn't know that parks were included in that law. Is that just State Parks? County Parks? Amusement Parks? Can you show me where that can be found?

Do the harsher penalties for "within 500 yards of a school" ALSO include "within 500 yards of a parks"?:chinscratch:
:pirate:

[snap7times]

So it's kosher, according to PDGA rules, to smoke tobacco during rounds? I'll just add that to the list of reasons I don't play in tournaments...

somebody's missing out:whistler::shocked:.... the list of pros for playing in a tournament, especially larger ones far out number these smaller con lists... I hope you going to BSF as a fan at least...

[Tim]

According to the competition manual, you are only prohibited from these activities from the 2-minute warning to when the scorecard is turned in. Were you offended by people drinking liquor at tourney central between rounds too or just the 'evil weed'?:pirate:

Heh, I never said it offended me. But isn't the whole rationale of the rule to present a professional, clean image to the world at large? Seems to me, a crowd of 100+ people standing around with bursts of fragrant smoke erupting here and there pretty much trumps the couple of groups that may be partaking during the round (which, as you might guess, was also happening). I'm not trying to come off as preachy here or anything, I'm just saying, I don't think it's right to imply that Washington is more guilty than Oregon when it comes to The Rule.

[snap7times]

Point is, we need to stop worrying about social status related to being the tattle tale on these rule violations and just do our part and rat on the rule violating SOB's... I used to be a little concerned about what people would think if I ratted someone out but from now on I will just be upfront about it and if someone cries like a baby, i know i got plenty of fellow dg'ers who will back me up... I would expect the same for everyone else... I want to see the game grow, i want to see my kid*s* be able to play this game their entire lives, but it wont happen as long as we are sterotyped and don't help each other step up our image...

[Adam Schneider]

the list of pros for playing in a tournament, especially larger ones far out number these smaller con lists...
For you. Not for me.

[snap7times]

For you. Not for me.

Now you got my curiousity "piqued" if that how you use that in English... Why is the tournament scene not "Mr Schneider's" "thing"? Just curious... I would like to hear the other side of the spectrum...

[jevon]

Now you got my curiousity "piqued" if that how you use that in English... Why is the tournament scene not "Mr Schneider's" "thing"? Just curious... I would like to hear the other side of the spectrum...

Some people don't like when it takes over 3 hours to play one round.

[Adam Schneider]

Some people don't like when it takes over 3 hours to play one round.
This. I'm on the course to throw, not stand around. This is why I don't play Pier Park except before noon on weekdays.

Also, I don't have as much fun if my score actually matters, and if I can't throw extra discs to see what they would've done.

Also -- the reason I posted here -- I've rarely seen a large congregation of disc golfers that didn't involve cigarette smoke. I know people "try" to stay downwind, but you know that doesn't always work out. I can smell it from 500 feet away. (Pot smokers actually bother me less, because they usually go back in the woods and do their thing, and don't carry it around with them stinking up the course... on the other hand, pot smokers who do it out in the open piss me off much more, because it's not good for the image of the sport.)


I think it's interesting that so many serious disc golfers are always looking for organized tournaments to play in... most other sports aren't like that. There are thousands, maybe millions, of hard-core ball golfers who play every single weekend, but they rarely play in tournaments.

[Ol' Bob]

...not good for the image of the sport.

End the stupid prohibition. Educate the people. Be done with the Dark Ages.

[snap7times]

This. I'm on the course to throw, not stand around. This is why I don't play Pier Park except before noon on weekdays.

Also, I don't have as much fun if my score actually matters, and if I can't throw extra discs to see what they would've done.

Also -- the reason I posted here -- I've rarely seen a large congregation of disc golfers that didn't involve cigarette smoke. I know people "try" to stay downwind, but you know that doesn't always work out. I can smell it from 500 feet away. (Pot smokers actually bother me less, because they usually go back in the woods and do their thing, and don't carry it around with them stinking up the course... on the other hand, pot smokers who do it out in the open piss me off much more, because it's not good for the image of the sport.)


I think it's interesting that so many serious disc golfers are always looking for organized tournaments to play in... most other sports aren't like that. There are thousands, maybe millions, of hard-core ball golfers who play every single weekend, but they rarely play in tournaments.

Gotcha, so smaller tournaments that have less than a full turn out, would those work? I've played in plenty of tournaments with no wait time... Ball golf has a way more wait time than disc golf from my own expirence...
I guess its better to play Deaf tournaments since there is always a few empty holes between cards. BTW i'll be at beaver state fling with an "become Deaf in 5 minutes" device... Only $100 dollars per 5 minutes... any takers???
And Golf is expensive, there is a lack of tournaments as opposed to disc golf because entry fees are outrageous and there is so much drama into it...
Anyways thanks for answering my question and back to our normal thread topic...
P.S. Adam, I sure hope you come to BSF to watch at least...

[Adam Schneider]

P.S. Adam, I sure hope you come to BSF to watch at least...
What did I say about standing around? :)

Maybe I just get bored easily. I like playing softball but not attending baseball games. I like to play my guitar but I don't enjoy live music shows. I like taking pictures but not watching other people's slide shows...

[Tim]

What did I say about standing around? :)

Maybe I just get bored easily. I like playing softball but not attending baseball games. I like to play my guitar but I don't enjoy live music shows. I like taking pictures but not watching other people's slide shows...

Whoa, could it be that Adam is actually Patrick Bateman (http://books.google.com/books?id=Gd_mGRCwW1QC&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=american+psycho+i+hate+live+music&source=bl&ots=QWoVBgctI5&sig=XRVAqD_m4YKUxspkW7Jb8486HjY&hl=en&ei=K4DnSdrPJpqQswO7spj0AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA143,M1) in disguise?:wink2:

[Adam Schneider]

Whoa, could it be that Adam is actually Patrick Bateman (http://books.google.com/books?id=Gd_mGRCwW1QC&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=american+psycho+i+hate+live+music&source=bl&ots=QWoVBgctI5&sig=XRVAqD_m4YKUxspkW7Jb8486HjY&hl=en&ei=K4DnSdrPJpqQswO7spj0AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA143,M1) in disguise?:wink2:
Yup. I'm also D.B. Cooper.

[snap7times]

Its not standing around, you follow a group with some really cool players in it and watch in awe how they throw, and take your own pictures too!!:biggrin2:
You will be suprised to see the huge difference between their play and our level of play... Everyone I know who has had the opportunity to witness these guys has always enjoyed it... your call... just dont :waaah: to me when you wish you watched a round... :biggrin2::yay::nahnah:
Just stay away from the smokers, DF and KC.. I want to watch Nikko, Gregg, Avery, and oh say a local NW pro on the same card... ohhhh :drool:

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Thanks Bob! So I ordered on the 9th and recieved the test in the mail on the 11th. Test completed and emailed back on the 12th. So lets take bets on how long it takes to get the word that I'm the new "Sheriff" in town. :cop:PDGA website says 4-6 weeks. Can they set a record like ORS registrations this year?:whistler:

Bob :D

It's "official", I'm a PDGA Official! :yay:

Bob :cop: